Class 172 Production Progress

[Old Hill Bank]

As so much of the DMU cascade depends on the output at Derby can any of you out there provide progress info on the Class 172 build situation?

 

[anthony263]

I have heard on another forum, not sure if its true or not that a london midland class 172 is nearing completion

 

[Old Hill Bank]

I have heard on another forum, not sure if its true or not that a london midland class 172 is nearing completion

Hope thats true Anthony, where did that info come from?

 

[Pumbaa]

Erm - not really!

There's a couple sitting almost ready now, but are waiting for 001/002 to finish testing at Old Dalby, see www.old-dalby.com/

A lot depends on the testing of the Zf transmission et al. No more should be rolling off the production line till testing is finished, and if they do come off the line they won't be complete, and will head for Old Dalby to join in the fun.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Word is that 004 is finished, roll on 211 and the rest!

 

[The Planner]

Rumour has it they have got problems. The exhaust system is having issues and they cant get the test units anywhere near top speed. Jan 2011 for the first LM unit to appear apparently.

 

[the sniper]

Damn...

 

[Pumbaa]

Rumour has it they have got problems. The exhaust system is having issues and they cant get the test units anywhere near top speed. Jan 2011 for the first LM unit to appear apparently.

Yeah I've heard this - should have learnt from the 170!! And Chiltern were apparently disappointed with the acceleration of the 172; not what they were promised and may cause issues with Gerrads X services that they're intended for??

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Dont know about the exhaust thing but I do know that LM are not promising any reduction in end to end timings when thier's are in service and the timetable unchanged!
They also say that seven class 150's will stay (I hate those cattle trucks!!!!!) but which 150's/no of coaches, no answer!!!
Confirmed 69 class 172 vehiches to replace the 72 "cattle trucks", the 172's will have "a few less seats"

 

[The Planner]

They are not promising reductions until they can prove there are any to have. No one in their right mind will say there are savings to be had without decent proof. The problem they have is that the 172 door cycle is a lot longer than a 150s, so the dwell times are likely to be increased, negating any benefit in running times.

 

[mumrar]

They are not promising reductions until they can prove there are any to have. No one in their right mind will say there are savings to be had without decent proof.

Pretty standard practice, look at how times on the WCML have come down since the first Pendo timetable (helped by infrastructure too). If this timetable had been initiated straight away successfully it would have been hailed a revolution!

 

[Old Hill Bank]

They are not promising reductions until they can prove there are any to have. No one in their right mind will say there are savings to be had without decent proof. The problem they have is that the 172 door cycle is a lot longer than a 150s, so the dwell times are likely to be increased, negating any benefit in running times.

Understand the dwell time issue but it's 18 miles from Kidderminster to Birmingham and it takes near to 40 minutes, average speed less that 30 mph.
No wonder the A456 is log jammed!!!!!
Perhaps there is no insentive to grow the buisness?

 

[The Planner]

Its all the stops that does it, 39 minutes journey, with 8 stops. 1 stop is going to cost 1½-2 minutes. You need some sort of semi-fast or fast service. It will get slighlty better post 2012 as Stourbridge - Droitwich gets re-signalled and all the absolute block nonsense gets binned.

 

[the sniper]

Do the Chiltern services still stop all stations to Kidderminster? It'd make sense for them to go express or semi-fast to Kidderminster, but I assume LM would be against that for some reason or another, or it may not be possible with the gaps that they've got.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Its all the stops that does it, 39 minutes journey, with 8 stops. 1 stop is going to cost 1½-2 minutes. You need some sort of semi-fast or fast service. It will get slighlty better post 2012 as Stourbridge - Droitwich gets re-signalled and all the absolute block nonsense gets binned.

To give an example of the problem and the chance of improvement consider the following:
There is a 0718 (class 150) departure from Kidderminster all stations to Snow Hill followed by the 0730 London service (booked as a 4 car 168) the 0730 gets to Stourbridge Jcn at 0737 and has a three minute "dwell" it then calls at Cradley 0745 and on to Rowley Regis where it has a further "dwell" before departing at 0753 with further stops at Smethwick ,The Hawthorns and Jewellery Quarter for a booked departure at 0806 it often then stands at a signal before Snow Hill waiting it's platform for an 0812 departure, this is to stop it catching up the class 150 in front of it.
So the Turbostar having given the 150 a 12 minute start from Kidderminster.
Is held up by the 150.
The 172s are more powerful than the 150s and the 168s, logic suggests the industry can do better on this line.

ps I think the Absolute Block thing should be sorted next year, not that that affects the above.

 

[The Planner]

The signalling doesnt get sorted until Autumn 2012, not before. I really dont think the 172s are the answers to everyones prayers down there, you'll probably save some time going up the bank but not a lot else.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

So nice new engines but the exhausts stop them working properly, sounds good!!!!

 

[the sniper]

I wonder how the LM end gangwayed (Sp?) units are coming along production wise? In the original 172 thread there was a guy called TurboStar_2533 who posted pictures from within Derby, it'd be nice to hear from him again.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

I wonder how the LM end gangwayed (Sp?) units are coming along production wise? In the original 172 thread there was a guy called TurboStar_2533 who posted pictures from within Derby, it'd be nice to hear from him again.

Not sure we will till the exhaust thing is sorted

 

[swt_passenger]

Roger Ford is saying in his Modern Railways preview email today that the exhaust will be re-routed through the passenger saloon 'like on the 222s'.

(Like on 220 and 221 as well I reckon, except their exhaust passes through their oversized vestibules so does'nt appear in the undersized seating area...)

 

[starrymarkb]

So like a 185 then? That's not going to be an easy job...
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:185137_Scarborough_MSOL_Standard_Class_1.JPG

(the Exhaust stack is in the box on the right hand side of the picture...)

 

[The Planner]

Going to have to whip out some seats to do it apparently.

 

[bnsf734]

Passed Willesden Depot yesterday and noted 172 004 - 006outside the depot, so deliveries are continuing. According to Roger Ford the LOROL 172 's will have the exhaust modification later (not much call for 75mph running on the Gospel Oaks means that they dont need to wait for the mods before entering service)

Calv

 

[EM2]

There are 172s out to play on the GOBLin already, I've seen them twice in the last few days.
I assume they are on test, rather than in service but the timetable seems to change with the wind, so I can never remember when trains are due!

 

[polla2256]

There are 172s out to play on the GOBLin already, I've seen them twice in the last few days.
I assume they are on test, rather than in service but the timetable seems to change with the wind, so I can never remember when trains are due!

Driver training (weekdays) - 12:03 depart willesden, run to barking - gospel oak - barking - willesden

Mileage accumulation (weekdays) - 00:13 depart willesden run Bletchley - Euston - Blechley - Euston - Willesden

Enjoy

 

[WatcherZero]

Last RAIL mentioned it, engines choke if they go over 43mph apparantly.

 

[TurboStar_2533]

Not sure we will till the exhaust thing is sorted

Been fairly busy recently with the into of 172/0.

Attached is the first LM unit, taken early June. Apparently, the first LM unit will be used to validate the design of the revised exhaust that is planned to go through the saloon at a location between the power pack and first relative set of saloon doors thus negating the need to go round the bogie.

To pre-empt the question why can the exhaust not go over the bogie like previous designs: the B5006 ecoflex bogie has inboard bearings, outboard wheels and thus the airbags are closer together by approiximately 1/3 over previous designs. Contrary to the belief of other threads in this forum, the side pipe exhaust design as currently fitted to 172/0 is within the gauge line and employs the area where yaw dampers would have been on a 170.

I digress. LO 172's will enter service with the side pipe design, as previously mentioned, the LM 172's will be used to validate the revised design. Thus LM will enter service with the revised solution and LO's will be retrofitted at the end of the Chiltern build.

Regarding compliance with the Emissions Directive 97/68/EC, the directive applies to manufacturers of the engines and engines must be certified before they are placed on the market. Although the current design of the engine does not meet the back-pressure conditions specified on the engine's type certificate, there is not a non-compliance with the emissions directive.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Thanks for the update Turbostar 2533, lets hope the testing goes OK and we can see some of them in the Snow Hill Lines soon.

 

[TheWalrus]

Looks good

 

[the sniper]

Thanks for the update TurboStar.