Class 172 Production Progress

[MCR247]

It didn't always get 170s, CT seemed to just randomly send units like 3 car 170s on Derby - Matlock etc

 

[trains2064]

Surely the most downgraded route has got to be the Derby - Crewe line?

170/5 -> 158 -> 156 -> 153

A single car? It goes back to my early point not enough units to go round.

 

[northwichcat]

Surely the most downgraded route has got to be the Derby - Crewe line?

170/5 -> 158 -> 156 -> 153

It also used to be part of a Manchester Airport to Skegness service so downgrading is understandable. It would be like someone travelling between Newcastle and Sunderland saying they don't get 3 car 158s anymore when the service is no longer part of a Liverpool-Sunderland via Newcastle service.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

:Yawn:

Can we either re-title this thread, or get back to talking about Class 172?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Have any more class 172's gone back into service? last i heard 172004/005 were in but no others?
Also Anyone know whereabouts of 172001/003/008?

 

[northwichcat]

:Yawn:

Can we either re-title this thread, or get back to talking about Class 172?

While it has wandered OT part of the 172 plan is to cascade 150s elsewhere so a delay in the 172 delivery affects a large part of the country not just the London Overground area.

A delay in the LO 172 delivery means FGW don't get 150s to replace the 142s and Northern don't get the 142s back. Likewise a delay in the LM 150 delivery means that Northern don't get extra 150s meaning no 156s are available to cascade to EMT. You see there's a much bigger picture than just London Overground.

 

[EM2]

Is it my imagination, or is a 150 bigger inside than a 172?
It certainly seems wider, with a much more 'square' profile.

 

[northwichcat]

Is it my imagination, or is a 150 bigger inside than a 172?
It certainly seems wider, with a much more 'square' profile.

The 172s have a metric width of 270cm, while the 150s were done with an imperial measurement of 9 feet wide (around 275cm)

 

[sprinterguy]

Is it my imagination, or is a 150 bigger inside than a 172?
It certainly seems wider, with a much more 'square' profile.

Carriages of a 150 Sprinter are only 20m long as opposed to the 23m of a 172 Turbo, so can afford to be slightly wider and still fit within the loading guage. 150 carriages are 2.82m wide and Turbostar carriages 2.7m (Although I've seen it stated that the 172 carriages are actualy 5 cm wider than the earlier 170 vehicles, at 2.75m?). Plus, as you say, the 150s benefit from not having a tapered body profile, being much more "square".

 

[northwichcat]

Although I've seen it stated that the 172 carriages are actualy 5 cm wider than the earlier 170 vehicles, at 2.75m?

That was me thinking that a 9ft width 150 measurement found on the web was correct - it was rounded down! They were actually built as 9 1/4 ft from looking at a more reliable source. 9 1/4 ft is equal to 281.94cm.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

While it has wandered OT part of the 172 plan is to cascade 150s elsewhere so a delay in the 172 delivery affects a large part of the country not just the London Overground area.

A delay in the LO 172 delivery means FGW don't get 150s to replace the 142s and Northern don't get the 142s back. Likewise a delay in the LM 150 delivery means that Northern don't get extra 150s meaning no 156s are available to cascade to EMT. You see there's a much bigger picture than just London Overground.

Good point, well made. Maybe the thread should be retitled: "Why TOCs can't get the extra DMUs that they so desperately need". Or, better still: "Class 172 (lack of) production progress".

 

[MCR247]

Or, better still: "Class 172 (lack of) production progress".

 

[sprinterguy]

Given that the LM units look like they're gonna be in service around a year late, I'd say that's a very apt title!

 

[2030720310]

Any updates on this yet?

 

[the sniper]

Surely the front ends of a LM 172 must have come together by now?

Would anyone in Derby Works like to leak some pictures? Pretty please?

 

[Bastiaan]

I don't understand what's so special about the front end. It probably looks like this, but then in London Midland livery, one or two cars shorter and without the pantograph :P

 

[DVT82305]

Yes it will look exactly like a electrostar class 375 & 377 but it will be a diesel one

 

[jopsuk]

I don't understand what's so special about the front end. It probably looks like this, but then in London Midland livery, one or two cars shorter and without the pantograph :P

This is possibly closer, what with Southern and And London Midland having similar (though not identical) liveries. Oh, and they'll be 23m long, 2.7m wide carriages rather than 20m long, 2.8m wide (one of the differences between the Turbo and Electro designs)

 

[Bastiaan]

Just a detail, but your example doesn't have the right light clusters. The 172s will have two-piece light units like the 375/8-9, 377/2,4-5 and partially 377/1

 

[the sniper]

I don't understand what's so special about the front end. It probably looks like this, but then in London Midland livery, one or two cars shorter and without the pantograph :P

Yes it will look exactly like a electrostar class 375 & 377 but it will be a diesel one

Well that is disappointing. Where has this been confirmed though?

 

[Bastiaan]

Why do you think it will look totally different? The LO 172s also have the same front end as other Turbostars, so it's rational to presume that the LM 172s will have the same front and as a 375/377.

 

[the sniper]

Why do you think it will look totally different? The LO 172s also have the same front end as other Turbostars, so it's rational to presume that the LM 172s will have the same front and as a 375/377.

I didn't think it'd be totally different, but I expected the front end to look like a Turbostar with a gang way, rather then an Electrostar, which has a flat cab end.

 

[Fincra5]

As far as produced units go, when i was changing trains at Willesden Junction i noticed a fair few in the depot.

 

[DjU]

I didn't think it'd be totally different, but I expected the front end to look like a Turbostar with a gang way, rather then an Electrostar, which has a flat cab end.

The end on the 375 & 377 is the gangway version of the Bombardier (Turbo/Electro)-star family cab.

Thats what a "Turbostar with a gang way" will look like, they are common family, they don't have unique fronts - its just the Diesel version hasn't yet got round to wearing the gangway front yet, whereas the Electric version has worn a variety. Really not sure what you imagined would be different.

 

[Fincra5]

It will basically look like a 377 just a bit longer Both the turbo and the electostars are fabircated in the same way, so its not a suprise that the 172 gangway'd version will look like a 377.

 

[the sniper]

The end on the 375 & 377 is the gangway version of the Bombardier (Turbo/Electro)-star family cab.

Thats what a "Turbostar with a gang way" will look like, they are common family, they don't have unique fronts - its just the Diesel version hasn't yet got round to wearing the gangway front yet, whereas the Electric version has worn a variety.

True, it seems pretty obvious when you put it like that.

Really not sure what you imagined would be different.

A Turbostar's (you know what I mean, the traditional 'face' of a Turostar) slopped front, but with an end gangway.

It's going to be odd to hear an end gangwayed Electrostar (again, you know what I mean ) making diesel noise, though I suppose the novelty will wear off pretty quickly, like it has done with the Class 357 and its, erm, lack of diesel noises.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

Of course all this debate would be academic if a vehicle or two were to appear from Litchurch Lane.... but I guess that's too much to expect.

 

[87015]

Of course all this debate would be academic if a vehicle or two were to appear from Litchurch Lane.... but I guess that's too much to expect.

First 379s are pretty much complete, as good as on time and on budget...

 

[the sniper]

First 379s are pretty much complete, as good as on time and on budget...

But we're talking about 172's though!

 

[Kingfisher200262]

But we're talking about 172's though!

You took the words right out of my mouth.

Bombardier's planners seem to be adopting some train operators' practises of sacrificing a service (new trains - "build") that is already running disastrously late and has no chance of recovering PPM (new trains - "and has probably hit a liquidated damages cap") in favour of keeping the rest of the timetable running smoothly.

Understandable under the circumstances, especially if you follow the line that there is a limited (or no) future market for DMUs.