Class 156 experiences?

[cambsy]

been on few 156's,they're noisy and old,just rancid plastic pigs,built in 90's,earlier version of 158 and slower 75mph,but on Fort William and Mallaig not much other choice,except sleeper which now 67 hauled,not a patch on the tractors Cl37,be a long ride on 156 just be glad not a nodding donkey aka pogo stick

 

[sprinterguy]

For such a tourist oriented route, the 156 just isn't good enough. The longest trip I done on a 156 was from Holyhead-Blackpool North back in the 90s and even then I though three hours was too long.

When you look at the quality of the some of the other units on shorter routes in Scotland, five hours on a 156 really is pathetic.

These days 156s are more at home on 30 minute runs out of Norwich, but certainly not on a route of such community and tourist importance as Glasgow-Fort William / Mallaig

I think that for a tourist orientated route that the 156s are the best suited out of any stock currently in regular service with any TOC: Panoramic windows, a decent amount of luggage space and plenty of bays of seats around tables. Coupled with decent acceleration and from what I can gather reliable performance, then what's not to like?

We know there is issues with clearance of 158s / 170s etc, but where's the initiative in dealing with them?

Where would the spare stock come from in order to make these issues worth solving? It is quite conceivable that in the future clearance issues will be addressed to allow 158s to operate on the West Highland Line and 170s on the G&SW, but at the present time this is not possible with the current fleet requirements.
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been on few 156's,they're noisy and old,just rancid plastic pigs,built in 90's,earlier version of 158 and slower 75mph,but on Fort William and Mallaig not much other choice,except sleeper which now 67 hauled,not a patch on the tractors Cl37,be a long ride on 156 just be glad not a nodding donkey aka pogo stick

I must protest against these views: For a start, 156s were built in the eighties and serve a very different purpose to the 158s (even though when they were first introduced they covered a number of routes that later went over to 158 operation, but it was only a temporary measure), and just where would any unit have the opportunity to utilise a max speed of more than 75mph? The maximum speed of the WHL is more a fault of the nature of the route rather than the rolling stock that operates it.

 

[Blindtraveler]

the units would to my mind be fine with high backed well padded seats which seeing as the WHL fleat is pritty self contained due to tocan block equipment wouldnt be too hard or costly would it?

 

[CarterUSM]

They do plenty of other work, in fact, they go to Carlisle, Stranraer, EK etc also.

 

[Hydro]

but on Fort William and Mallaig not much other choice,except sleeper which now 67 hauled,not a patch on the tractors Cl37,be a long ride on 156 just be glad not a nodding donkey aka pogo stick

Some of us still have the pleasure of an occasional couple of 37's up the WHL

Unfortunately, not this week however.

 

[Blindtraveler]

are, I thought the WHL was the only one with0Tocan Block signaling, thanks Carter for putting me streight as to other diagrams for these.

 

[CarterUSM]

It is, but the units have NRN and GSM-R to enable them to work over other lines, sorry for the misunderstanding!

 

[Hydro]

Far North Line also has RETB signalling.

 

[CarterUSM]

Far North Line also has RETB signalling.

I know, just 156 related post.

 

[sprinterguy]

the units would to my mind be fine with high backed well padded seats which seeing as the WHL fleat is pritty self contained due to tocan block equipment wouldnt be too hard or costly would it?

It is interesting to consider that the precedent for comfort on trains has moved on so far in the last twenty odd years that the original seating fitted to 156s is now often deemed to be uncomfortable. As I recall, in the nineties I was perfectly happy to sit on a 156 for a reasonable amount of time with no complaints about discomfort, though I have never done a journey as long as the entirety of the entire West Highland line on a 156. About an hour and a half would be my usual maximum, which tbh is more the sort of journey length that 156s are best suited for.

Tbh, I'd be happy if all 156s were fitted with the high-backed seating that it fitted to the Northern Spirit refurbished units. I think they're great!
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I know, just 156 related post.

It wasn't that long ago that 156s were the regular traction on the North Highland Lines, though you undoubtedly are aware of this already.
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They do plenty of other work, in fact, they go to Carlisle, Stranraer, EK etc also.

That's true, and for the faster, regional routes between large-ish towns, such as the Glasgow & South Western, Stranrear, etc, then I think that in this day and age that 170s would be much better suited to the routes. Hopefully the continuing programme of electrification in the Central Belt will eventually see 170s released to work the likes of the G&SW services.

156s aren't particularly suited to short commuter hops such as Paisley Canal and the East Kilbride lines either, where electrification would be a very good idea.

Nonetheless, I would say that the Highland Lines are very much what 156s are best suited for.
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Some of us still have the pleasure of an occasional couple of 37's up the WHL

Unfortunately, not this week however.

I would have loved to have seen the days of regular class 37/4 plus mark 2 operation on the West Highland line.

Though to be truly honest, I have quite a hankering for a class 29 and some mark 1 compos, taking things back even further...

 

[Scotrail84]

Well, that's something



I'm hoping that the scenery, and copious amounts of alcohol, will alleviate any discomfort

Beware only one toilet on the unit and if that packs in there you ****ed after the copious amounts of alcohol you intend to drink

 

[Blindtraveler]

agreed, been caught short that way myself between dumfries and Glasgow, not many bogs on the way if it happens!

 

[150222]

[/B]

Beware only one toilet on the unit and if that packs in there you ****ed after the copious amounts of alcohol you intend to drink

But arn't most WHL services in a doubled up formation? Hence 2 toilets.

 

[rail-britain]

156s aren't particularly suited to short commuter hops such as Paisley Canal and the East Kilbride lines either, where electrification would be a very good idea

Strathclyde Transport were supposed to receive Class 150/2 units
However the national rail strike delayed this, resulting in them receiving Class 156 units instead
Many people saw this as a better option, and at the time I agreed as they were vastly superior to the Class 150/2
Ironically those units were not cascaded off the Edinburgh - Dundee services, in favour of Class 156 units, and instead waited for the Class 158 units (quite literally waited for them too)

I do not see anything wrong with the Class 156 units on the Glasgow South routes, compared to the other types of DMU that are available, and do not see what difference using EMUs will make (in terms of day to day operation)

Glasgow - Cumbernauld passed from Class 156 to Class 170 units and there was little difference
However when Class 158 units are used the service is often late, and the delay on doors opening and closing is very noteable
Many regular passengers don't even bother getting out of their seat, knowing the doors will take a long time to open

 

[sprinterguy]

Strathclyde Transport were supposed to receive Class 150/2 units
However the national rail strike delayed this, resulting in them receiving Class 156 units instead
Many people saw this as a better option, and at the time I agreed as they were vastly superior to the Class 150/2
Ironically those units were not cascaded off the Edinburgh - Dundee services, in favour of Class 156 units, and instead waited for the Class 158 units (quite literally waited for them too)

Aha, thanks for a bit of historical context. I didn't know that Strathclyde PTE were originally to have received 150/2s.

I...do not see what difference using EMUs will make (in terms of day to day operation)

Faster acceleration and braking characteristics, and shorter station dwell times. I do not know the passenger loadings of those routes to be able to say whether a three car EMU such as a 314 or 318 would be overkill in terms of capacity though.

 

[rail-britain]

Faster acceleration and braking characteristics, and shorter station dwell times

I accept performance differences between DMU and EMU, however I am referring to the operational differences

Example 1
I cannot see how three Class 156 and two Class 314 can be any different between Glasgow and East Kilbride (at peak time)
Surely the passenger will prefer the Class 156?

Example 2
Once Class 156 and one Class 314 between Glasgow and Paisley Canal
The Class 156 is more suited as there is less seating
So boarding on the rear at Glasgow, on arrival at Paisley (and vice versa) there is less distance to walk
At peak time the Class 156 can be doubled up, the Class 314 is not likely to be and remain as 3 car

 

[Schnellzug]

But passengers always prefer smooth & silent electric trains to smelly diesels.
That's what we're always told, anyway.

 

[sprinterguy]

I accept performance differences between DMU and EMU, however I am referring to the operational differences

Example 1
I cannot see how three Class 156 and two Class 314 can be any different between Glasgow and East Kilbride (at peak time)
Surely the passenger will prefer the Class 156?

Example 2
Once Class 156 and one Class 314 between Glasgow and Paisley Canal
The Class 156 is more suited as there is less seating
So boarding on the rear at Glasgow, on arrival at Paisley (and vice versa) there is less distance to walk
At peak time the Class 156 can be doubled up, the Class 314 is not likely to be and remain as 3 car

A point well made, but I still think that those two branches are very much an anomaly in Glasgows' largely electrified commuter network. The short length and regular stop-start nature of the routes suggests to me that three-car, twenty metre body length EMUs with 1/3 and 2/3 position doors would be a better option than twenty three metre body length two car regional DMUs with narrow, single leaf doors at the vehicle ends.

 

[37410]

Northern Rail ones are alright. In interior terms 156490 is pretty comfortable

 

[rail-britain]

But passengers always prefer smooth & silent electric trains to smelly diesels

Smelly diesels?
If they are smelly then there is something wrong with them...
Electric trains are noisey too

 

[12CSVT]

Is the WHL not suitable for 58s, could they operate on it theoretically, even if there might not be enough available to do so? (Or 170s, even)


** 158s, not 58s.

158s aren't cleared for the West Highland

 

[CarterUSM]

A point well made, but I still think that those two branches are very much an anomaly in Glasgows' largely electrified commuter network. The short length and regular stop-start nature of the routes suggests to me that three-car, twenty metre body length EMUs with 1/3 and 2/3 position doors would be a better option than twenty three metre body length two car regional DMUs with narrow, single leaf doors at the vehicle ends.

EK needs 23 metre vehicles in my opinion, very busy most of the day with 6 and 4 cars prevalent at peak and weekends, Canal less so outwith the peaks.

 

[Scotrail84]

But arn't most WHL services in a doubled up formation? Hence 2 toilets.

Yes but do they not divide at Crianlarich ??

 

[matchmaker]

I would have loved to have seen the days of regular class 37/4 plus mark 2 operation on the West Highland line.

Though to be truly honest, I have quite a hankering for a class 29 and some mark 1 compos, taking things back even further...

I'd prefer a K4 and some teak bodied Gresleys.....

 

[sprinterguy]

I'd prefer a K4 and some teak bodied Gresleys.....

That's a good point, I wouldn't say no to that either!

 

[Liam]

There are gauge clearance issues relating to the way that the doors swing out that could foul platform edges. Certainly it's rectifiable but it would cost a fair bit of money. I'm not sure about 170s, but they have a similar style of door to 158s (swing out then open) so could well have the same issue.

I've heard this before, but does anybody know what platforms the doors might foul? how do the sleeper MkIII's manage? Some platforms on the WHL are lower than normal.

[/B]

Beware only one toilet on the unit and if that packs in there you ****ed after the copious amounts of alcohol you intend to drink

And they seem all to prone to packing up. My last two trips up to Mallaig the toilet became blocked, everybody has to bail out at Fort William to use the toilet.

But arn't most WHL services in a doubled up formation? Hence 2 toilets.

Only in summer when most Fort William and Oban trains leave Glasgow seperately. The rest of the time the train leaves Glasgow as a 2 unit train to Crianlarich, where it splits and one unit continues to Oban, one unit to Mallaig

 

[Mainliner]

For such a tourist oriented route, the 156 just isn't good enough.

These days 156s are more at home on 30 minute runs out of Norwich, but certainly not on a route of such community and tourist importance as Glasgow-Fort William / Mallaig

Yes, that was my feeling - they don't do justice to the line.

[/B]

Beware only one toilet on the unit and if that packs in there you ****ed after the copious amounts of alcohol you intend to drink

Hmmm, perhaps I'd better take whisky rather than beer

 

[rail-britain]

I've heard this before, but does anybody know what platforms the doors might foul? how do the sleeper MkIII's manage? Some platforms on the WHL are lower than normal

I had a list of the stations and routes, but it does not appear to be available any more, would need access to the Sectional Appendix
The route meets C3 loading gauge, so Mark 3 coaches can use the route
However the Class 158 has plug doors which may foul platforms

Strangely my copy of the Sectional Appendix simply lists 15X units

 

[T163R]

222?

Ok, so people are going to hate me, but I took a Voyager once (221) and I found it very comfortable !

 

[150001]

I've always found the 156s quiet and comfy but I've never been on the Scotrail ones though! Only ct, and nxea and nor!