Christmas Day Operations

[The Bear]

Transport for the North signed off the decision to not run anything Boxing Day this year, with the Covid effect driving the decision. There will be services again next year, and more than was attempted in 2019.

It would be interesting to see what extra services above what was run Boxing Day 2019 they attempt to operate on Boxing Day 2021 as the majority of the major stations are either operated by other TOC's or NR.
Aside from engineering work, from memory this was the reason precluding Northern from running into the likes Manchester, Preston, Leeds etc.

 

[backontrack]

It would be interesting to see what extra services above what was run Boxing Day 2019 they attempt to operate on Boxing Day 2021 as the majority of the major stations are either operated by other TOC's or NR.
Aside from engineering work, from memory this was the reason precluding Northern from running into the likes Manchester, Preston, Leeds etc.

I imagine there'll probably be a skeleton service on the North TPeX core?

Something like York-Leeds-Dewsbury-Huddersfield-Stalybridge-Manchester Piccadilly.

 

[hexagon789]

While not 100% related to the thread as it doesn't concern current operations, but I recently learnt that as recently as 1979 there were some Xmas Day local rail services in the UK.

 

[matt_world2004]

While not 100% related to the thread as it doesn't concern current operations, but I recently learnt that as recently as 1979 there were some Xmas Day local rail services in the UK.

I had a friend who was a revenue inspector for London Transport. He remembers working Christmas day.

The Heathrow express runs as a shuttle service between terminal 4 /5 and central Christmas day

IIRC in the not too distant pass it did some paddington runs too.

 

[hexagon789]

I had a friend who was a revenue inspector for London Transport. He remembers working Christmas day.

The Heathrow express runs as a shuttle service between terminal 4 /5 and central Christmas day

IIRC in the not too distant pass it did some paddington runs too.

I think GatEx may have done as well at some point?

 

[Tester]

We are quite out of step with the world. In most countries public transport operates on Christmas Day, albeit often with a reduced service.

When I talk to people about this, they are generally surprised - if in the UK that other countries don't do the same - and if in other countries that there really isn't a Christmas Day service here! As with so many things, we accept what we are used to.

In the state of Victoria, Australia, all public transport (local and long distance) is free of charge on Christmas Day, and is well used.

 

[matt_world2004]

We are quite out of step with the world. In most countries public transport operates on Christmas Day, albeit often with a reduced service.

When I talk to people about this, they are generally surprised - if in the UK that other countries don't do the same - and if in other countries that there really isn't a Christmas Day service here! As with so many things, we accept what we are used to.

In the state of Victoria, Australia, all public transport (local and long distance) is free of charge on Christmas Day, and is well used.

I wouldn't mind working Christmas day. I live on my own and it can be a pretty **** time as my social group spends it with families

 

[Ashley Hill]

If it hadn't been for the pandemic I would predict Boxing Day services within the next few years. Many people seem to treat it as an ordinary day and can't wait go shopping therefore creating a demand for rail services.

 

[dk1]

If it hadn't been for the pandemic I would predict Boxing Day services within the next few years. Many people seem to treat it as an ordinary day and can't wait go shopping therefore creating a demand for rail services.

People have been saying that for the last 20 years or more. Can't see it happening on any scale in the next 20.

 

[LAX54]

Then begs the question when do you do the major engineering works ? when you think how mauch work has gone on from 23rd / 24th Dcember though to Jan 4th, when would you replan that to ?
There is then the campaign to get stores closed again on the 26th, which seems to be gathering pace, so a service would not be needed anyway

 

[dk1]

Then begs the question when do you do the major engineering works ? when you think how mauch work has gone on from 23rd / 24th Dcember though to Jan 4th, when would you replan that to ?
There is then the campaign to get stores closed again on the 26th, which seems to be gathering pace, so a service would not be needed anyway

Exactly. Just need to move the sporting events to a more suitable day now. Talking of engineering, has all the replacement pointwork gone in north of North Station & is the UPL back in use?

 

[GLC]

If it hadn't been for the pandemic I would predict Boxing Day services within the next few years. Many people seem to treat it as an ordinary day and can't wait go shopping therefore creating a demand for rail services.

I’m not sure how it has arisen, but even this year, Scotrail were running services on Boxing Day, but only within the SPT region (so greater Glasgow really). I’m not sure when this practice started however

 

[The Planner]

What did Northern do this year, pretty sure they have it in their franchise to run x services of their choosing on boxing day?

 

[E16 Cyclist]

I’m not sure how it has arisen, but even this year, Scotrail were running services on Boxing Day, but only within the SPT region (so greater Glasgow really). I’m not sure when this practice started however

Think New Years is more of a thing up there than Boxing Day whereas down south things run

I had a friend who was a revenue inspector for London Transport. He remembers working Christmas day.

The Heathrow express runs as a shuttle service between terminal 4 /5 and central Christmas day

IIRC in the not too distant pass it did some paddington runs too.

I worked more of them than i care to remember and it was always amusing seeing the look on people’s faces when they realised nothing else was operating from Paddington on Christmas Day

 

[LAX54]

I’m not sure how it has arisen, but even this year, Scotrail were running services on Boxing Day, but only within the SPT region (so greater Glasgow really). I’m not sure when this practice started however

26th is a 'normal' day in Scotland, as it is in many other Countries, which is why they run a service.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Dec 2020 ==

We are quite out of step with the world. In most countries public transport operates on Christmas Day, albeit often with a reduced service.

When I talk to people about this, they are generally surprised - if in the UK that other countries don't do the same - and if in other countries that there really isn't a Christmas Day service here! As with so many things, we accept what we are used to.

In the state of Victoria, Australia, all public transport (local and long distance) is free of charge on Christmas Day, and is well used.

Many parts of the World the 26th is not a Bank Holiday, which is why they run a service, so maybe we should also get rid of the 26th, like those and run trains / open shops etc

 

[dk1]

26th is a 'normal' day in Scotland, as it is in many other Countries, which is why they run a service.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Dec 2020 ==



Many parts of the World the 26th is not a Bank Holiday, which is why they run a service, so maybe we should also get rid of the 26th, like those and run trains / open shops etc

No thanks. We' do it our way

 

[Taunton]

If it hadn't been for the pandemic I would predict Boxing Day services within the next few years. Many people seem to treat it as an ordinary day and can't wait go shopping therefore creating a demand for rail services.

The world has moved on. Far and away the majority go shopping by car. Including I suspect most rail industry employees.

As a manager at a major centre (Lakeside) said to me during a separate business discussion "We subsidise these bus services, but only because we politically have to in order to appease the politicians on the planning committee. Not only are they very little used and wasteful, but those they bring in don't spend anything like what those coming by car do. The biggest single group that comes in by bus is the teenagers, and they are just a confounded nuisance".

 

[LAX54]

No thanks. We' do it our way

but it does seem to upset those that want a service on that day so maybe we need to ditch the BH, so we can follow the other countries. lol

 

[dk1]

but it does seem to upset those that want a service on that day so maybe we need to ditch the BH, so we can follow the other countries. lol

Thank goodness for that Haha. I was about to call in medscreen.

 

[LAX54]

Thank goodness for that Haha. I was about to call in medscreen.

Not much time left for medscreen, 1800 Jan 1st, and that's it having said that....still time !

 

[charley_17/7]

The world has moved on. Far and away the majority go shopping by car. Including I suspect most rail industry employees.

As a manager at a major centre (Lakeside) said to me during a separate business discussion "We subsidise these bus services, but only because we politically have to in order to appease the politicians on the planning committee. Not only are they very little used and wasteful, but those they bring in don't spend anything like what those coming by car do. The biggest single group that comes in by bus is the teenagers, and they are just a confounded nuisance".

Why would anyone want to shop at Lakeside or Bluewater, when those who have access to public transport would use the far more accessible, and attractive, likes of Westfield? Hence the demand for c2c needing weekend services to Stratford. I'm not surprised intu centre's are dying if this is the attitude of management.

 

[The Planner]

Why would anyone want to shop at Lakeside or Bluewater, when those who have access to public transport would use the far more accessible, and attractive, likes of Westfield? Hence the demand for c2c needing weekend services to Stratford. I'm not surprised intu centre's are dying if this is the attitude of management.

Because they live closer to them?

 

[charley_17/7]

Because they live closer to them?

Closer doesn't necessarily mean easier/cheaper to get to. IIRC, Ensignbus are notoriously expensive, and don't even accept PlusBus.

For example, pre-Tier 3/4, on a typical Sunday, I've choice of paying £5-6 return on an hourly bus, waiting at a windswept shelter to get on a freezing bus, or, using my already paid out for a Annual Gold Card season on a half hourly (or better) train, waiting in a heated waiting room on a warm-ish train, to visit a much better range of shops with nicer facilities.

Going back on topic, we had a Xmas Day bus service, living close to Gatwick Airport, and a few local shops happened to be open. Personally I'd prefer if it was like Germany and all the large shops closed on a Sunday, with longer opening hours in the week. Not everyone works 9-5, hence the slow death of the high street, as well as Regional Shopping Centres.

 

[The Planner]

Closer doesn't necessarily mean easier/cheaper to get to. IIRC, Ensignbus are notoriously expensive, and don't even accept PlusBus.

For example, pre-Tier 3/4, on a typical Sunday, I've choice of paying £5-6 return on an hourly bus, waiting at a windswept shelter to get on a freezing bus, or, using my already paid out for a Annual Gold Card season on a half hourly (or better) train, waiting in a heated waiting room on a warm-ish train, to visit a much better range of shops with nicer facilities.

Going back on topic, we had a Xmas Day bus service, living close to Gatwick Airport, and a few local shops happened to be open. Personally I'd prefer if it was like Germany and all the large shops closed on a Sunday, with longer opening hours in the week. Not everyone works 9-5, hence the slow death of the high street, as well as Regional Shopping Centres.

My point was the same as @Taunton most people are going to drive and not use any subsidised bus service or public transport if they are doing any significant shop. I certainly wouldn't.

 

[matt_world2004]

My point was the same as @Taunton most people are going to drive and not use any subsidised bus service or public transport if they are doing any significant shop. I certainly wouldn't.

Westfield survives and thrives despite parking being horrendous there

 

[dk1]

Westfield survives and thrives despite parking being horrendous there

And one of the reasons why loadings on TfL rail services on the GEML have remained at over 50% until the latest lockdowns/Tiers which is one of the best performing of all. During normal times, weekends at Stratford can be like an all day rush hour.

 

[Ashley Hill]

My point was the same as @Taunton most people are going to drive and not use any subsidised bus service or public transport if they are doing any significant shop. I certainly wouldn't.

Up until today there was still a lot of local travel by train to and from the shops. Agreed if you're off to the supermarket for the weekly shop you'd drive,but many are still using the train to go to Primark etc for the sales. The stores need the business and attracting customers to spend their Christmas spondoolits on Boxing Day means the TOCs may want to get in on the action by transporting them there.

 

[dk1]

Up until today there was still a lot of local travel by train to and from the shops. Agreed if you're off to the supermarket for the weekly shop you'd drive,but many are still using the train to go to Primark etc for the sales. The stores need the business and attracting customers to spend their Christmas spondoolits on Boxing Day means the TOCs may want to get in on the action by transporting them there.

For most TOCs it would mean offering excessive overtime & offering additional leave on top as a carrot. It would after all this rely on volunteers which is always going to be unreliable. It's really not worth the effort involved.

 

[Bertie the bus]

What did Northern do this year, pretty sure they have it in their franchise to run x services of their choosing on boxing day?

I don't think they ran anything. Certainly nothing out of Liverpool, Leeds, Preston, Sheffield, Manchester (Picc and Vic), Carlisle or Newcastle. Do franchise commitments mean anything at the moment?

 

[Andrew1395]

I am 58, I remember my grandparents routinely getting the train to ours on Boxing Day, my day collected them on Christmas day. My railway career included working Christmas Day and Boxing Day. I was in my mid twenties then and volunteering won many a favour with colleagues with families. In BR days working Easter Sunday got you the most money - double time plus a time in lieu. I am not sure Christmas Day services would be that busy, when most families who can get together having access to a car. Boxing Day should have services Imho.