Chiltern refurb stock

[Voyager 2093]

Chiltern will be getting the 172s late next year, the loco haul stock will have to be 67s as they are the only free locos suitable for Chiltern's type of workings. It was suggested that chiltern cancelled the 172s but they are comming.

As for the 168s they will be freed up to more kidderminster services and stratford services the 168/0s will be used on kidderminster services more frequently and the other 168s will do the stratford service more frequently, complemented by the odd 165. Sadly we wont see many 168s on the Aylesbury Line as we hoped.

 

[Pumbaa]

I read/heard/imagined that Chiltern had said they were not interested in getting 172s and this idea had been caped?

I too heard this idea, and the top team at Chiltern had told DfT to bugger off. The 172s were supposedly to strengthen services, although again it was rumoured it would allow 4x165s to bugger off to the GW to strengthen capacity there. It was a sensible idea to give Chiltern the 172s as opposed to fGW, as they've already got the Clubmans.

72 Mk3s you say? Well that makes 18 rakes of stock, if 4 each, or 9 of 8. Either way, that's probably incorrect. And where have they come from? We've got none left! I find it implausible, that's all I'll say.

Wiki is wrong anyway Daimler; if Chiltern are allowed to keep the 4 165s as well as the 172s, they will provide extra services oblique strengthen existing services to High Wycombe, releasing the 165s required there for peak time to the Aylesbury branch, creating extra capacity there.

They're certainly not short of stock - they're sensible. Instead of running 4 cars off-peak, when 2 cars would suffice, they just run 2. Unlike LM for example, who can't be bothered to uncouple trains after the morning peak, so you have what happened last week with the 4 trains working the MK circuit all being 8 or 12 cars. Ridiculous!

In turn, this allows for a more comprehensive maintenance regime at Chiltern.

 

[route:oxford]

Interesting about conversion to power doors, could this be as the line south of Banbury is DOO and one of the conditions of DOO is power doors or platform staff at each station? On the other hand I should imagine having loco-hauled passenger trains as DOO might fall foul of other rules there as I don't think it's been done before. Chiltern would probably get guards to work it.

It's probably a few things...

Power doors are of great assistance to the impaired...
"Drop-lights" in the lowered position can impare the performance of train...
Some people are stupid enough to put their heads out of the window when they shouldn't - these days that is anyones fault but the person who did it...

And maybe most importantly...

Think how good they will look on the bay platforms in Oxford compared to the adjacent FGW HST Stock. Passengers will look at them and see them as "brand-new" stock with "proper" doors.

 

[The Planner]

The 4 172s were down to work High Wycombe services and the 67s at the other end of the planned loco services will be one's pinched from WSMRs pool. They only have one rake of 4 coaches on order, not the 72 claimed.
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Think how good they will look on the bay platforms in Oxford compared to the adjacent FGW HST Stock. Passengers will look at them and see them as "brand-new" stock with "proper" doors.

Thats a big old assumption there !! Id bet big money on Oxford Marylebone being 168 operated.

 

[Voyager 2093]

The Planner considering that the 168 is Chiltern's fastest unit, they willl have to use a 168 if they are to rival FGW's service.

 

[TEW]

Everyone perceives FGW HSTs as being 'new' anyway.

 

[williamn]

I asked two friends, not into railways, how old they thought a FGW HST was. They both guessed early 1980's so pretty much right.

 

[TEW]

Most people always say how they are impressed with the new trains.

 

[williamn]

They didnt say they didn't like it (though as we were a group of three, they weren't impressed with the lack of tables), just that it had obviously been refitted.
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Where did the discussion about extra ATW and WS paths go?!
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oops its on another thread! Ignore me!

 

[monkey]

...I was reading the irish coaching stock page, on wikipedia and it said that the irish mk3 coaches already had electric "swing" plug doors? does that mean these would just remain or would chiltern install different ones? also what is a electric "swing" plug door as oppose to ones that the mk4's have?

 

[adc82140]

Would they be similar to the ones on the class 442s?

 

[tbtc]

There can't be much scope for more paths into Marylebone, surely?

So any new stock would be to do some of the following:

1. Extend more Birmingham services through to Kidderminster
2. Extend some existing Wycombe/ Bicester services to Oxford
3. Extending more services beyond Bicester/ Banbury to Stratford (hourly?)
4. The proposed Milton Keynes/ Bletchley service that I've heard nothing about for a long time
5. Doubling up more services (no corridor connection though)

(or anything else?)

 

[37401]

Cant wait till the LHCS comes into service, im guessing they will do what WSMR did and use cargo-d`s stock while their own is being re-furbished, would be nice if a 67 went into Chiltern livery

 

[Waddon]

Where are they going to stable all these new trains? Surely Wembley isn't big enough and Aylesbury is not that convenient, especially for the 67's etc which can't run direct through Amersham due to restrictions on the Met lines? Where else do Chiltern park stuff overnight?

On another note, I look forward to all these different colour schemed coaches and locos becoming thoroughly mixed up just like in the old days - how about a Chiltern blue DVT, two Wrexham & Shropshire silver MK 3's, a Blue+Grey buffet and maybe a bright red DB Schenker class 67 all on the same train?

 

[bengley]

Where are they going to stable all these new trains? Surely Wembley isn't big enough and Aylesbury is not that convenient, especially for the 67's etc which can't run direct through Amersham due to restrictions on the Met lines? Where else do Chiltern park stuff overnight?

On another note, I look forward to all these different colour schemed coaches and locos becoming thoroughly mixed up just like in the old days - how about a Chiltern blue DVT, two Wrexham & Shropshire silver MK 3's, a Blue+Grey buffet and maybe a bright red DB Schenker class 67 all on the same train?

Loco trains can be taken on the met providing the line is closed, so it would need to be done at night. When they do engineering works, they have a ballast train hauled by a class 66 all the way up as far as Amersham.

 

[hick]

Where are they going to stable all these new trains? Surely Wembley isn't big enough and Aylesbury is not that convenient, especially for the 67's etc which can't run direct through Amersham due to restrictions on the Met lines? Where else do Chiltern park stuff overnight?

On another note, I look forward to all these different colour schemed coaches and locos becoming thoroughly mixed up just like in the old days - how about a Chiltern blue DVT, two Wrexham & Shropshire silver MK 3's, a Blue+Grey buffet and maybe a bright red DB Schenker class 67 all on the same train?

Chiltern are close to max stabling. For example at Banbury a unit is stabled on the running line overnight with a driver onboard in case the signallers need it moving.

Moor Street is scheduled to become home of the MKIIIs, with plans for more stabling at Banbury in conjunction with the re signalling and perhaps some more at Wembley.

 

[The Planner]

Banbury re-signalling is at least 5 years away though !!

 

[hick]

Banbury re-signalling is at least 5 years away though !!

But how much extra stock do you think is entering service between now and then? The 4 x 172s are likely to be accommodated at Aylesbury, Wembley and Marylebone. That leaves 2 8 car stabling roads and 2 8 car platforms at Moor Street.

If there's a need for more than 32 extra vehicles (24 if MKIII + 67) in the next five years, then that means the economy is doing rather well and I'm sure money will be found if required.

Evergreen 3 also knocks a bit out of unit requirements due to reduced journey times.

 

[The Planner]

Im still sceptical of Evergreen 3, they have thinned out the Oxford Bicester section, and Im of the belief some other stuff may suddenly dissapear....

 

[Geezertronic]

Moor Street is scheduled to become home of the MKIIIs, with plans for more stabling at Banbury in conjunction with the re signalling and perhaps some more at Wembley.

Moor Street? On the unused platforms?

 

[Waddon]

Moor Street is scheduled to become home of the MKIIIs, with plans for more stabling at Banbury in conjunction with the re signalling and perhaps some more at Wembley.

There has to be some stabling in the London area, or the first train out of London would have to wait for a service to come all the way from Birmingham or Banbury, and that would make it mid to late morning at best (unless the early trains are DMU stock). Maybe they plan to kick Wrexham & Shropshire stock out of Wembley, meaning goodbye early train to Wrexham? I hope not because that train, although not heavily loaded, is the only way for us southerners to get a decent day out on W&S.

 

[hick]

There has to be some stabling in the London area, or the first train out of London would have to wait for a service to come all the way from Birmingham or Banbury, and that would make it mid to late morning at best (unless the early trains are DMU stock). Maybe they plan to kick Wrexham & Shropshire stock out of Wembley, meaning goodbye early train to Wrexham? I hope not because that train, although not heavily loaded, is the only way for us southerners to get a decent day out on W&S.

More stock is about extra capacity. I doubt there's that much of a need for more stock northbound against the peak flow.
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Im still sceptical of Evergreen 3, they have thinned out the Oxford Bicester section, and Im of the belief some other stuff may suddenly dissapear....

The singled parts of the Oxford Bicester section won't affect Chiltern's planned capacity and there's a requirement to spend a certain amount of money on EG3, so any value exercises have to stop at some point!

 

[matt]

Moor Street? On the unused platforms?

I believe those platforms will come into use from next year. I am not sure if Chiltern Birmingham services will terminate there instead of Snow Hill

 

[BlythPower]

Snow Hill's very much in the business quarter of Birmingham. I can't imagine the captains of industry in rural Warwickshire will welcome the uphill walk to Snow Hill or be very keen on changing to a London Midland service. I'd be surprised if Chiltern withdrew from Snow Hill completely.

 

[hick]

I believe those platforms will come into use from next year. I am not sure if Chiltern Birmingham services will terminate there instead of Snow Hill

2 x 8 car platforms and 2 x 8 car stabling sidings are due to be in use for the December 2010 timetable

 

[tbtc]

Maybe they plan to kick Wrexham & Shropshire stock out of Wembley, meaning goodbye early train to Wrexham? I hope not because that train, although not heavily loaded, is the only way for us southerners to get a decent day out on W&S.

Realistically though, most of the W&S demand comes from people in north wales/ Shropshire travelling to London, and not from people in London traveling north...

 

[Waddon]

Realistically though, most of the W&S demand comes from people in north wales/ Shropshire travelling to London, and not from people in London traveling north...

True, but thats partly W&S's own fault, as they really don't promote themselves for passengers heading north. Agreed the demand is less, but they have to run trains both ways, so why not make the most of it?

 

[paul1609]

I reckon the first train out of London to Wrexham and corresponding return will be a Chiltern DMU from early next year.

 

[MCR247]

Why do you say that?

 

[barrykas]

I reckon the first train out of London to Wrexham and corresponding return will be a Chiltern DMU from early next year.

I reckon that if it looked like that was on the cards, W&S would have a revolt on their hands, from staff and passengers alike.

My theory (without having seen any diagrams) is this:

The first Down service is being retimed to 07:23 from 5th October, and the last to 18:33, to eliminate the lodge turns.

A Chiltern Driver and CSI will work the 07:23 from Marylebone to Banbury, where a W&S crew will take over, having travelled down on the 05:12 from Wrexham.

The crew of the 16:07 from Shrewsbury will work the train as far as Banbury, where a Chiltern Driver and CSI will take over for the journey to Marylebone, with the W&S crew returning to Wrexham on the 18:33 from Marylebone.

Cheers,

Barry