Chiltern Class 68s withdrawn due to cracks

[DB]

Is there any more news on this? i.e. specifically what the problem is, how long it will take to fix, and whether all 68s are affected?

Thanks

 

[43 302]

Is there any more news on this? i.e. specifically what the problem is, how long it will take to fix, and whether all 68s are affected?

Thanks

There are cracks on the ETS mouting brackets - not chiltern specific so all 68s potentially affected. 68018 ran back to Crewe, and no Chiltern Mk3 sets til August at the earliest is what I'm hearing.

 

[Nym]

Only the ETS fitted ones are affected. It's not an ideal situation thanks to the design of the ETS frame.
I'm not sure if the TPE Mk.5As use a different ETS or not which would mean a different converter.

 

[43 302]

Only the ETS fitted ones are affected. It's not an ideal situation thanks to the design of the ETS frame.
I'm not sure if the TPE Mk.5As use a different ETS or not which would mean a different converter.

Sorry, which 68s are not ETS fitted?

 

[Nym]

Sorry, which 68s are not ETS fitted?

The ones with their ETS Static Converters sat on the floor at the depot having their cracks inspected

 

[43 302]

The ones with their ETS Static Converters sat on the floor at the depot having their cracks inspected

So all of them are affected...

 

[Nym]

Do TPE ones have the same converters though?

 

[43 302]

Do TPE ones have the same converters though?

I have it on good authority that it affects the TPE 68s too, so I would assume so. One of the possible short term fixes is to rob them from the 88s.

 

[DB]

Only the ETS fitted ones are affected. It's not an ideal situation thanks to the design of the ETS frame.
I'm not sure if the TPE Mk.5As use a different ETS or not which would mean a different converter.

If so, that's all of them then! The ETS is a standard fitment on the whole fleet - it's not something specific to the Chiltern ones.

The modification to the Chiltern ones is the multiple-working system (additional round orange socket just above the buffer beam), which I understand is a cut-down version of AAR which allows them to be controlled from the AAR-fitted DVT but doesn't allow full multi-working with AAR-fitted locos. The TPE ones have a grey/black rectangular socket in the same place, which I understand is the TMS (those use the native 68 system for multi-working - red sockets below the windscreen).

 

[peteb]

The only 68 hauled Marylebone to Kidderminster (arr 1938) silver diagram to survive the temporary withdrawals has gone over to a unit, it was only a 3 car tonight. Later arrival at 2045 also unit.

 

[Buspilot]

Was talking to a professor in mechanical engineering yesterday, who specialises in road and rail transport.

It is his view that the problem expressed on this thread about the Chiltern 68s and other threads regarding failures of various items of running gearon other stock, have a common cause.
It is not the construction of the items of rolling stock, which in many cases have proven themselves in other countries, but the track construction in the UK where the fault lies. It has not kept pace with rolling stock running gear construction.
Sleepers are no longer made of wood but of various forms of concrete. Rails are not tempered in a way to suit modern rolling stock wheel construction and the method of laying of continuous rail in the UK is questionable.

 

[northernbelle]

Was talking to a professor in mechanical engineering yesterday, who specialises in road and rail transport.

It is his view that the problem expressed on this thread about the Chiltern 68s and other threads regarding failures of various items of running gearon other stock, have a common cause.
It is not the construction of the items of rolling stock, which in many cases have proven themselves in other countries, but the track construction in the UK where the fault lies. It has not kept pace with rolling stock running gear construction.
Sleepers are no longer made of wood but of various forms of concrete. Rails are not tempered in a way to suit modern rolling stock wheel construction and the method of laying of continuous rail in the UK is questionable.

This is certainly a line of investigation in regards the CAF and Hitachi problems - the fact there's an emerging theme across multiple manufacturers suggests the problem is more systemic than it first seems.

 

[CumbrianSausag]

Has this situation changed at all? Any back in service yet?

Much appreciated.

 

[matt]

Has this situation changed at all? Any back in service yet?

Much appreciated.

There at least one diagram running now. I travelled behind 68010 on the 11:10 from Marylebone yesterday.

 

[43 302]

10 + 13 in service plus 8 for rescue only. Not sure on the status or the others.

 

[thedbdiboy]

There at least one diagram running now. I travelled behind 68010 on the 11:10 from Marylebone yesterday.

Here it is on the return 1355 working

 

[Nym]

I do have to wonder why they didn't just remove the ETS Static Converters, make safe, and then just run the ETS generator in the DVT?

 

[CyrusWuff]

I do have to wonder why they didn't just remove the ETS Static Converters, make safe, and then just run the ETS generator in the DVT?

I believe the generators in the DVTs were only specced to provide "hotel power" when the loco was shut down, not whilst on the move.

 

[warwickshire]

I believe the generators in the DVTs were only specced to provide "hotel power" when the loco was shut down, not whilst on the move.

That is correct.
Also on some dvts the generators are isolated as well.
Iff generator in dvt fails then train will be a failure.

 

[Nym]

I believe the generators in the DVTs were only specced to provide "hotel power" when the loco was shut down, not whilst on the move.

How different is the load on a Mk.3A when moving compared with static? It isn't that much.

 

[DB]

How different is the load on a Mk.3A when moving compared with static? It isn't that much.

The DVT will also need power for its cab if it's leading.

But what's the ETS index of the genset in the DVT? Should be easy enough to work out whether it has a high enough rating from that.

 

[t_star2001uk]

But what's the ETS index of the genset in the DVT? Should be easy enough to work out whether it has a high enough rating from that.

Genset ETS output index is 44...

 

[43096]

Genset ETS output index is 44...

Which is more than enough to supply a full Chiltern set on maximum demand, including the buffet.

 

[Nym]

The Mk.3As now have new converters that need around 40kW each, so if my memory serves correctly that's an ETS index of 4.

Image shows a snip of a brochure from Turbo Power Systems showing their "Regional" offering for Mk.3 Coaches.

 

[43096]

The Mk.3As now have new converters that need around 40kW each, so if my memory serves correctly that's an ETS index of 4.

Image shows a snip of a brochure from Turbo Power Systems showing their "Regional" offering for Mk.3 Coaches.

View attachment 99932

I believe it’s ETS index of 1 = 5kW.

 

[DB]

I believe the Platform 5 books have the ETS ratings for each type of LHCS vehicle - I've been hunting for the books this morning and can't find where I've put them! Anyone got one to hand?

 

[t_star2001uk]

ETH Index for Chiltern Mk3 Stock...

TSO = 6X
TSOL = 6X
GFW = 14X
DVT = 6X

 

[43 302]

ETH Index for Chiltern Mk3 Stock...

TSO = 6X
TSOL = 6X
GFW = 14X
DVT = 6X

I can't work out what GFW stands for?

 

[Richard Scott]

I can't work out what GFW stands for?

Galley First Wheelchair?

 

[CyrusWuff]

Galley First Wheelchair?

Correct. Though the serving areas have now been boarded over.

So...A full rake works out at a theoretical ETS index of 50, or potentially 42 if the galley's been stripped out/isolated. Loco wouldn't be breaking a sweat (as it can handle an index of 100), but it's touch and go for the gensets...assuming they're even working.