Catering Manager sacked for telling Passengers the truth

[A-driver]

Washing up in itself can wait until reaching destination as long as the dirty dishes are out separate and not reused, but the hand washing water within a temperature range is a must have to prepare food I would think, but would use of disposable vinyl gloves be acceptable if changed appropriately?

Not sure how long washing up could wait in a tiny train galley kitchen-they don't have the luxury of lots of space to store them away from food prep areas.

 

[Flamingo]

Washing up is essential, if for no other reason than quite how much equipment do you think they can carry, or storage space there is in a train kitchen?

Edited to add: woops, A-driver bet me to it.

 

[Darren R]

Washing up in itself can wait until reaching destination as long as the dirty dishes are out separate and not reused, but the hand washing water within a temperature range is a must have to prepare food I would think, but would use of disposable vinyl gloves be acceptable if changed appropriately?

In a word, no. No hot water, no commercial kitchen - it really is as simple as that. They would only legally be allowed to serve food that is pre-packaged and served to the customer in that packaging, unopened.

Take it from someone who found themselves in hot water over precisely this issue!

(Through no fault of my own, I hasten to add! The company responsible was prosecuted and fined well in excess of £10,000 for operating a commercial kitchen with no hot water.)

 

[VauxhallandI]

In a word, no. No hot water, no commercial kitchen - it really is as simple as that. They would only legally be allowed to serve food that is pre-packaged and served to the customer in that packaging, unopened.

Take it from someone who found themselves in hot water over precisely this issue!

(Through no fault of my own, I hasten to add! The company responsible was prosecuted and fined well in excess of £10,000 for operating a commercial kitchen with no hot water.)

However it isn't a commercial kitchen, more of a soup kitchen as everything is free remember......

 

[Chrism20]

I stumbled across this whilst browsing on the web.

Only appears to be Edinburgh based crew.

TRAIN staff at Virgin Trains East Coast in Edinburgh will stage a one-day strike on Good Friday in protest at the sacking of catering worker Mark Doughty, the Rail Maritime and Transport (RMT) union announced today.

The union member is reported to have told passengers they could not get a full cooked breakfast because of a broken boiler and staff shortages.

However, The Scotsman understands there were other disciplinary issues involved with his dismissal.


In a letter to union members today, general secretary Mick Cash said: “There are numerous reports of how the disciplinary procedure has and continues to be misused by management.

“Having considered the views of your senior union representatives, and in order to achieve justice for our dismissed member, your general grades committee feel that industrial action is necessary to force management to see sense and reinstate Brother Doughty.”

Mr Doughty was dismissed by UK Government-run East Coast Trains before the franchise was switched to Virgin Trains East Coast, which is 90 per cent owned by Stagecoach, on 1 March.

The operator runs trains between Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Inverness and London via the east coast main line.

A Virgin Trains East Coast spokesman said: “It’s disappointing the union has pushed ahead with action when nearly three quarters of members affected didn’t vote for the dispute.

“We’re still in a dialogue with the union but, should it go ahead, this action would only affect staff based in Edinburgh, and our services will run as normal, so our passengers shouldn’t be concerned.”

 

[Bodiddly]

I stumbled across this whilst browsing on the web.

Only appears to be Edinburgh based crew.

Oh dear, Beardy and Sooty will be livid! They don't like strikes and will be looking for people to pay big time. As we still do not know the full circumstances of Mark's dismissal, it would be wrong to speculate if there were grounds or not. You have to admit though, the reporting of the sacking weighs heavily on the employees side.

 

[185]

Some sympathy for them in inheriting this from East Coast, although part of the deal is sorting out problems created by the former owner.

 

[embers25]

Some sympathy for them in inheriting this from East Coast, although part of the deal is sorting out problems created by the former owner.

But the former owner was DOR who have always been portrayed as whiter than white and perfect so surely there should have been no problems to inherit. If the franchise hadn't switched from DOR to Stagecoach/Virgin I doubt the union would have been demanding strike action as that would tarnish DOR which is not exactly part of the RMT agenda.

Also was I the only the one that cringed when they referred to "Brother Doughty"...are we back in the dark ages or something. As usual an unmandated strike by a union trying to influence an election...pathetic as ever....cue the RMT member backlash at someone challenging the RMT's VERY blinkered view of reality.

 

[capital12]

But the former owner was DOR who have always been portrayed as whiter than white and perfect so surely there should have been no problems to inherit. If the franchise hadn't switched from DOR to Stagecoach/Virgin I doubt the union would have been demanding strike action as that would tarnish DOR which is not exactly part of the RMT agenda.

Also was I the only the one that cringed when they referred to "Brother Doughty"...are we back in the dark ages or something. As usual an unmandated strike by a union trying to influence an election...pathetic as ever....cue the RMT member backlash at someone challenging the RMT's VERY blinkered view of reality.

Yes very cringeworthy - as are most things involving the RMT!

 

[Tetchytyke]

As usual an unmandated strike by a union

The majority of people who voted were in favour of strike action.

If that's not a mandate, someone really ought to tell David Cameron he shouldn't be Prime Minister.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Oh dear, Beardy and Sooty will be livid! They don't like strikes and will be looking for people to pay big time.

That's what I said.

The replies on here were that his dismissal was completely coincidental to the takeover of East Coast by Brian Souter, that noted believer in Christian forgiveness and salvation.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I am suddenly drawn to a similarity between the wording of this thread and the subsequent outcome that now appears to be the case on the Jeremy Clarkson thread running on this website, where people have had their involvement with a company suddenly terminated. The difference being in what is said to be the reasons for such a termination that has been quoted in those two cases.

 

[Searle]

However, The Scotsman understands there were other disciplinary issues involved with his dismissal.

hmmm...

 

[83G/84D]

FGW train staff taking industrial action in Cornwall on Friday over a sacked member of staff.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I am suddenly drawn to a similarity between the wording of this thread and the subsequent outcome that now appears to be the case on the Jeremy Clarkson thread running on this website, where people have had their involvement with a company suddenly terminated. The difference being in what is said to be the reasons for such a termination that has been quoted in those two cases.

There's quite a lot of water between "punching your employee in the face" and "making some off-colour remarks about the competence of your employer".

Mr Doughty was sacked for bringing East Coast "into disrepute". Even the passenger who complained about the lack of food, causing all this, is disgusted at how he was treated.

http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-to-begin-balloting-for-strike-action-on-east-coast/

 

[Scotrail84]

I recognise the guy, always very cheeky when I've been on the trains, but very good natured.

Shameful, but there's usually another side of the story too. It'll be interesting where this one goes. He's not a trade union activist is he? Call me cynical, but Mr Souter doesn't like them.

I know him personally. He's a good guy.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Surely an employment tribunal is a better way to sort this than mud slinging and strike action. That is the route everyone else in the country would have to use.

 

[khib70]

Oh dear, Beardy and Sooty will be livid! They don't like strikes and will be looking for people to pay big time. As we still do not know the full circumstances of Mark's dismissal, it would be wrong to speculate if there were grounds or not. You have to admit though, the reporting of the sacking weighs heavily on the employees side.

It really is time people like you grew up. "Beardy and Sooty"? Your playground name-calling lowers the tone of the whole forum.

And it was the saintly, "nationalised" DOR who sacked this guy, well before anyone connected with VTEC was involved.

There are good grounds for mature criticism of Richard Branson, and Brian Souter. But your sneery jibes come nowhere near that category

 

[Darandio]

And it was the saintly, "nationalised" DOR who sacked this guy, well before anyone connected with VTEC was involved.

Looking for something more ridiculous? Very early in the thread there were suggestions they were indeed involved, it is apparently their 'management style'.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

But the former owner was DOR who have always been portrayed as whiter than white and perfect so surely there should have been no problems to inherit. If the franchise hadn't switched from DOR to Stagecoach/Virgin I doubt the union would have been demanding strike action as that would tarnish DOR which is not exactly part of the RMT agenda.

Also was I the only the one that cringed when they referred to "Brother Doughty"...are we back in the dark ages or something. As usual an unmandated strike by a union trying to influence an election...pathetic as ever....cue the RMT member backlash at someone challenging the RMT's VERY blinkered view of reality.

Stop the nonsense union bashing. They do what its members like myself pay them for. Maybe its your blinkered view of reality that's the problem!

 

[185]

Surely an employment tribunal is a better way to sort this than mud slinging and strike action. That is the route everyone else in the country would have to use.

Have to disagree. Employment tribunals, now a paid-for service, the quality and justice brought in recent years seems to have dropped to a shocking, shoddy level. Sat in on one two months ago, just to watch FirstGroup's latest antics in the courtroom, and have to say the standard of judiciary at them has got far, far worse.

Entire statements seem to be withdrawn without question, false statements intended to mislead the court can be made and withdrawn with seemingly no risk of perjury, and when CCTV and evidence is produced to counter a new statement/argument, they overule that evidence as inadmissable 'becoz the law sez so'.

Good luck to the union for bringing these actions, as the safety net in Britain, madame justice seems to have taken a rather long holiday.

 

[LateThanNever]

Have to disagree. Employment tribunals, now a paid-for service, the quality and justice brought in recent years seems to have dropped to a shocking, shoddy level. Sat in on one two months ago, just to watch FirstGroup's latest antics in the courtroom, and have to say the standard of judiciary at them has got far, far worse.

Entire statements seem to be withdrawn without question, false statements intended to mislead the court can be made and withdrawn with seemingly no risk of perjury, and when CCTV and evidence is produced to counter a new statement/argument, they overule that evidence as inadmissable 'becoz the law sez so'.

Good luck to the union for bringing these actions, as the safety net in Britain, madame justice seems to have taken a rather long holiday.

Agree that employment tribunals have always been rather poor. But there is only one employment orientated lawyer as 'judiciary'. The other two are either an employer or a union rep (both obviously with too much time on their hands). The payment perhaps deters 'frivolous' cases - or not! But the cost isn't enormous compared with potential payments for the employee.
You can appeal if evidence that should have been taken in to account wasn't and that is generally not difficult to discover.....
But it is true it is much better and quicker to try to use ACAS if poss!

 

[Bodiddly]

Not even the strongest unions can argue facts. If an employee deserves dismissal due to something him or her has done that contravenes the companies rules then as long as the company goes through the proper channel, they can and do dismiss. People lose their job every day on the railway but they don't all automatically result in strike action. For any action to even be considered there has to be a bit of dubiety in the initial incident that caused the suspension from work. I would like to think a manager will always think about the ramifications when suspending an employee but in some cases the employee is unfairly punished far too quickly before the full incident is investigated. This is what leads to the union getting involved.
Unions are a must in large transport corporations. Without them, the travelling public would be put in danger never mind the employees rights. Sadly though, union bashing is all too common in todays business orientated world. And as for the argument of timing, of course a strike will be targeted to cause the most disruption, that is the whole reason for industrial action. As employees though, you won't find one who looks forward to a strike. It really is the last resort.

 

[ainsworth74]

I have deleted a large number of off topic posts from this thread. Please would all members ensure that we stick to the topic at hand and don't get side tracked into, what appears to me to have been, a bit of Union bashing. This is likely to upset a number of members who are part of various Unions.

If people wish to discuss the merits or otherwise of Unions I would ask that they do so on a separate thread but before they do that I would ask that they read previous threads on the topic as they will most likely find it has all been said before.

Finally a reminder to all that if you see a post you have a problem with or you think may cause issues please please report (

) it. We do our best to read everything but the reality is that there are just too many posts for us to be able to do so and we rely on our members to bring issues to our attention.

 

[Tetchytyke]

And it was the saintly, "nationalised" DOR who sacked this guy, well before anyone connected with VTEC was involved.

Given that Stagecoach/Virgin purchased East Coast Mainline Ltd- it was not a usual franchise transfer- then if they weren't involved it'll be the first ownership change in history where the new owners have kept away until the day of transfer.

If you believe that this doesn't have Stagecoach's special and unique brand of industrial relations stamped all over it then you'll believe anything.

Have to disagree. Employment tribunals, now a paid-for service, the quality and justice brought in recent years seems to have dropped to a shocking, shoddy level. Sat in on one two months ago, just to watch FirstGroup's latest antics in the courtroom, and have to say the standard of judiciary at them has got far, far worse.

The standard has always been variable, but I'd agree that the ET is generally finding more in favour of employers than it ever used to. I'm sure that this is because employers are getting better at employment law (yeah right) and not for any other reason.

The main issue with the ET remains that the ET will not award reinstatement (they theoretically can, but the Devil will be skiing to work long before that happens). Even if you win the ET you still don't have a job, and compensation is usually based on you finding work again quickly.

 

[Robertj21a]

Given that Stagecoach/Virgin purchased East Coast Mainline Ltd- it was not a usual franchise transfer- then if they weren't involved it'll be the first ownership change in history where the new owners have kept away until the day of transfer.

If you believe that this doesn't have Stagecoach's special and unique brand of industrial relations stamped all over it then you'll believe anything.



.

Clearly, I must be one who will 'believe anything'. There's little likelihood, and no evidence, that Stagecoach had anything to do with this case prior to them assuming overall responsibility.

Just so that I am quite clear, what precisely is '.....Stagecoach's special and unique brand of industrial relations........' ?

 

[alastair]

If you believe that this doesn't have Stagecoach's special and unique brand of industrial relations stamped all over it then you'll believe anything.



.

Can you elaborate?

My local TOC is Stagecoach-owned SWT. The staff I come across usually seem pretty cheerful and I can't recall having read anything on this forum about particularly dire industrial relations between SWT and Stagecoach. Northern and LM,by contrast seem to crop up all the time!

 

[Zoidberg]

... so the Edinburgh Evening News reports at

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/easter-rail-strike-called-off-1-3735000

Extract:

THE threat of Easter rail chaos has been averted following a union decision to call off a strike over a train catering worker sacked for telling the truth about why passengers were being served sub-standard food.

Members of the RMT union were due to stage a 24-hour stoppage on Good Friday, demanding the reinstatement of catering crew leader Mark Doughty, who was dismissed by East Coast Trains after he explained a broken boiler and staff shortage meant first-class travellers could not be given a full cooked breakfast and were instead being handed warmed-up paninis.

East Coast management accused him of bringing the company into disrepute.

...

But after talks between the two sides, the union has 
suspended the strike, saying the company has agreed to review Mr Doughty’s case.

...

 

[Chrism20]

It has just been on Forth1 news that there will be a strike on Bank Holiday Monday due to this.

I'm guessing VTECs review has found in favour of the previous EC decision.

 

[Zoidberg]

... according to the Edinburgh Evening News at

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...ins-staff-to-strike-on-bank-holiday-1-3757778

Rail workers at Edinburgh’s Waverley station are to stage a strike on Bank Holiday Monday in a dispute over the sacking of a colleague.

Members of the Rail, Maritime and Transport union on East Coast trains will walk out for 24 hours.

The staff work as on-board train managers and catering managers on trains in and out of the station, including the intercity route to London King’s Cross.

The union is protesting at the dismissal of Mark Doughty, saying he merely told passengers they could not have hot food on a journey to London because of a broken boiler and staff shortages.

RMT general secretary Mick Cash said: “We are determined to right this outrageous injustice of a member fired for telling passengers the truth.”

 

[Blindtraveler]

Disruptive as it will be, Im with them all the way here. Us paying pax deserve the truth