Catering Manager sacked for telling Passengers the truth

[bb21]

Just a quick note to try and stick to the original topic please. The discussion on availability of East Coast offerings just about relates to and stems from the original topic but no discussion on the perceived over-provision of First Class on East Coast or other operators please. You can always do so in a separate thread.

 

[sheff1]

As for advertising the food, well it's clearly labelled as subject to availability like any promotion in any industry. If you choose to plan on the food definitely being available then that is your shortcoming.

Where is it clearly labelled as subject to availability ? The only caveat I could see on this page http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/the-east-coast-experience/first-class/complimentary-food-and-drink/ is 'During busy periods, we may have to substitute or change some items on the menu at our discretion.'

'Substitute or change' would certainly cover the situation in the OP, but the discussion has moved on from that.

 

[Mark62]

The service on my last two EC journey's south from Newcastle has been nothing short of exceptional. At times there will be staff shortages and things may break down. The cooked breakfast on EC is not exactly a full breakfast so substituting the panini is not much of a reduction. Was toast still available on the journey in question? After Sampling the sorry apology for a bacon roll on XC I would happily accept a breakfast panini. I have had the misfortune to be offered the breakfast rolls from stagecoach MML services and I do believe the cost around £5 for a bacon or sausage sandwich.
The worst crews on EC are those that original from London and I have found one lady steward to be extremely rude and workshy.
I can't understand why so many passengers were getting so vociferous on the journey in question. At least they got fed and I would think that any food they got would be of the usually high quality.

 

[Starmill]

Where is it clearly labelled as subject to availability ?

Nowehere AFAIK. But if you write to East Coast and ask, that is what they will tell you.

 

[Agent_c]

Nowehere AFAIK. But if you write to East Coast and ask, that is what they will tell you.

One would think it would have to be somewhere public if they wish to rely upon it as a contractual term - secret terms aren't on.

 

[Chrism20]

IIRC it is on the printed menus that are on the tables on the trains. It will be on the website somewhere though.

 

[richw]

IIRC it is on the printed menus that are on the tables on the trains. It will be on the website somewhere though.

That isn't acceptable as a term, unless you can see it printed on that menu before you buy...but you have to buy before you board.

However the menu is online and has no such subject to availability disclaimer unless I am missing it. It is clearly advertised as part of the "first class experience"

http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/the-east-coast-experience/first-class/menu/in-three-weeks/?mq=menu1#menu1

 

[sheff1]

Nowehere AFAIK. But if you write to East Coast and ask, that is what they will tell you.

I am sure A-driver will be back to tell us at some point, although so far the 'clear advertising/labelling' seems remarkably elusive.

 

[Flamingo]

Just to remind people, the original topic is a member of staff being dismissed for allegedly telling passengers why first-class items were not available.

I'd guess the discussion should be around whether he was right to do so, what manner he did it in, and how could he have done it in such a way to make him subject to dismissal.

A side- discussion could be the behaviour of the first-class passengers that allegedly upset the train-crew to the extent that one of them was reduced to tears (which I can assure you is not an everyday occurrence for train-crew. We are a pretty hardened lot.)

 

[Chrism20]

That isn't acceptable as a term, unless you can see it printed on that menu before you buy...but you have to buy before you board.

However the menu is online and has no such subject to availability disclaimer unless I am missing it. It is clearly advertised as part of the "first class experience"

http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/the-east-coast-experience/first-class/menu/in-three-weeks/?mq=menu1#menu1

Yes I know it's not acceptable. That is the only place I've seen it for a while that off the top of my head I can recall.

It will be somewhere on the web and more than likely the printed timetable. Where on the web is it though is the big question. It will be there surely although it should be more prominent. On the menu pages online they used to actually show a pdf of the menu so it was there.

Anyone out there got any further information on the case in question?

Have we managed to find out what was said? Or why the paninis came about?

 

[sheff1]

It will be somewhere on the web and more than likely the printed timetable.

There is nothing in the printed timetable. We are still awaiting a web link.

 

[A-driver]

There is nothing in the printed timetable. We are still awaiting a web link.

http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/the-east-coast-experience/first-class/complimentary-food-and-drink/

There you go. It clearly states... "During busy periods, we may have to substitute or change some items on the menu at our discretion."

Hard to define busy periods but that clearly states that they may make substitutions or changes to the menu, as they did here by providing sandwiches instead of a cooked breakfast.

In other words if they can't provide the advertised menu then they can make changes as appropriate.

You would have a hard time arguing for a refund based on lack of advertised menu.

 

[drbdrb]

Substitute = equivalent not inferior.

 

[A-driver]

Substitute = equivalent not inferior.

Where does it say that and it's a personal opinion what is equivalent or better. Not really something you could argue.

And regardless, it also says they may 'change' things.

 

[Domh245]

Ask Google to define substitute and you get the following:

a person or thing acting or serving in place of another

How on earth you would expect an equivalent product, when it can't be made in the first place confuses me. If the oven has gone, you wouldn't expect your food to be served hot, and I personally wouldn't want the same food served raw!

 

[Bishopstone]

Only in the UK, and possibly Germany, could someone lose their job and others face a tear-inducing riot: over sausages.

 

[Robertj21a]

Only in the UK, and possibly Germany, could someone lose their job and others face a tear-inducing riot: over sausages.

At least it shows that our little bit of the world is *relatively* quiet at the present time. Not often that one can just worry about sausages when other countries are having the odd bit of bother.

 

[Flamingo]

Only in the UK, and possibly Germany, could someone lose their job and others face a tear-inducing riot: over sausages.

I don't know about that - what if they were pork sausages?

 

[Bishopstone]

At least it shows that our little bit of the world is *relatively* quiet at the present time. Not often that one can just worry about sausages when other countries are having the odd bit of bother.

Indeed. We are blessed to live in this country.

 

[Flamingo]

Indeed. We are blessed to live in this country.

It could be a lot worse...

 

[Chrism20]

There is nothing in the printed timetable. We are still awaiting a web link.

You are correct, either that or we are both missing it.

There is the blurb about substituting but there does not appear to be anything about "Subject to availability" anymore within the printed timetable.

Going back to the panini has anyone tried them on EC?

Are they really that bad that it would cause what is almost being described as a breakfast time revolt on the 5:48? I assumed it is just the same type as the ones sold in standard.

It's a while since I bought anything other than a cuppa and a biscuit when travelling standard but I always thought the paninis were done in a grill/oven rather than a microwave or something similar.

 

[richw]

I would prefer a panini over a bacon roll. I would say a panini is a higher class of product. I would probably choose a panini over a full English as well.

A panini should be cooked on a George foreman style grill if done properly.

 

[sheff1]

http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/the-east-coast-experience/first-class/complimentary-food-and-drink/

There you go. It clearly states... "During busy periods, we may have to substitute or change some items on the menu at our discretion."

I had already quoted that in post #152. It is referring to changes in the food provided, not a 'subject to availabity' statement that getting no food at all is a possibility.

Despite various assertions, no one has yet provided a link to the 'clear advertising' that any food at all is an optional extra. In fact, all the EC publicity flagged so far very much suggests that food (of some sort) is an integral part of the First Class offer.

 

[mirodo]

Only in the UK, and possibly Germany, could someone lose their job and others face a tear-inducing riot: over sausages.

Losing your job is the würst case scenario.

 

[sheff1]

Going back to the panini has anyone tried them on EC?

Are they really that bad that it would cause what is almost being described as a breakfast time revolt on the 5:48?

I have not tried one since GNER days (when they were rather good). The picture in the Edinburgh News looks particulary unappetising and I would prefer to be offered a cold sandwich, or even a croissant, to that.

 

[A-driver]

I had already quoted that in post #152. It is referring to changes in the food provided, not a 'subject to availabity' statement that getting no food at all is a possibility.

Despite various assertions, no one has yet provided a link to the 'clear advertising' that any food at all is an optional extra. In fact, all the EC publicity flagged so far very much suggests that food (of some sort) is an integral part of the First Class offer.

I don't think anyone has been talking about no food at all but alterations in what is provided.

Subject to change or subject to availability is pretty much the same thing in this discussion.

 

[sheff1]

Subject to change or subject to availability is pretty much the same thing in this discussion.

We will have to disagree on that one.

 

[Clip]

You are correct, either that or we are both missing it.

There is the blurb about substituting but there does not appear to be anything about "Subject to availability" anymore within the printed timetable.

Going back to the panini has anyone tried them on EC?

Are they really that bad that it would cause what is almost being described as a breakfast time revolt on the 5:48? I assumed it is just the same type as the ones sold in standard.

It's a while since I bought anything other than a cuppa and a biscuit when travelling standard but I always thought the paninis were done in a grill/oven rather than a microwave or something similar.

The paninis are fine - no idea why they caused a mini revolt. But lets face it without HOT water then they can not wash up stuff properly which they need to do, including their hands so they cant possibly serve food. Legionnaires scares the life out of companies.

Lets face it going round in circles about this now or what 'subject to availability' actually is is a pointless waste of time now as we still only have 1 side of the story and it l9ooks like we have covered everything.

 

[Chrism20]

The paninis are fine - no idea why they caused a mini revolt. But lets face it without HOT water then they can not wash up stuff properly which they need to do, including their hands so they cant possibly serve food. Legionnaires scares the life out of companies.

I think Sir you may just have raised a pertinent point.

I haven't worked in a catering environment since I was at uni which is a long time ago but I would imagine anyone serving or preparing unwrapped food without running hot water would certainly attract the attention of an EHO.

I am surprised that the alternative wasn't just the weekend breakfast option of a croissant and jam along with a youghurt/muesli pot thing rather than a panini.

 

[richw]

The paninis are fine - no idea why they caused a mini revolt. But lets face it without HOT water then they can not wash up stuff properly which they need to do, including their hands so they cant possibly serve food. Legionnaires scares the life out of companies.

Lets face it going round in circles about this now or what 'subject to availability' actually is is a pointless waste of time now as we still only have 1 side of the story and it l9ooks like we have covered everything.

Washing up in itself can wait until reaching destination as long as the dirty dishes are out separate and not reused, but the hand washing water within a temperature range is a must have to prepare food I would think, but would use of disposable vinyl gloves be acceptable if changed appropriately?