carriage keys

[P156KWJ]

Hi,
Does anyone know where I can *legally* get a proper carriage key? I am fed up of using big screwdrivers and pliers to get into cupboards at work, and they say they don't have any spare and it takes a while to make one in the machine shop - and then of ccourse it isn't genuine!!
I already know where I can get hold of a master key and BR1 key, but I'm buying those off my key dealer

 

[1D53]

eBay?

Its seriously unlikely you'll be able to get hold of one 'out of the industry' for understandable reasons.

 

[P156KWJ]

eBay?

Its seriously unlikely you'll be able to get hold of one 'out of the industry' for understandable reasons.

they go like hotcakes on ebay for a lot of cash - and yes, can understand why

 

[O L Leigh]

You can't buy them "legally" anywhere.

Railway keys are issued by the various railway companies to their employees depending on their need for them to carry out their jobs. However, they remain the property of the issuing company and are required to be returned when the employee leaves the company for whatever reason. Therefore, any that you see for sale have effectively been stolen. If you work on the railway and have a need for such a key you should have had one issued. Otherwise you really don't have any business getting one.

I've got a real personal issue with the private sale of railway keys. One of the drivers at my depot fortunately thwarted an attempt to "steam" a StanEx service by spotting that the doors on his train had been locked off by some scrote with the relevant key. They also allow access to areas of trains and railway property that the general public have no business poking their noses into or are kept locked away for their own safety.

O L Leigh

 

[P156KWJ]

well I need to get into the cleaning cupboard and have been told to use a screwdriver

 

[1D53]

Where do you work

 

[Guinness]

A company called Longleat (Who also run some kind of zoo) does Railway Items and I think still do T-Keys.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

funny, i've yet to use mine lol. I was told one golden rule about t-keys and thats that anything secured by one effectively isn't secure

 

[1D53]

Pretty much everything then!

 

[P156KWJ]

A company called Longleat (Who also run some kind of zoo) does Railway Items and I think still do T-Keys.

sounds dodgey :???:

 

[Ascot]

Check your pm's

"you can't legally get them anywhere" etc...

Yes you can get these ordered however they check with your company first so they do not dish out to every spotter who wants one for fun.

 

[Aureol]

sounds dodgey :???:

Nah, they're quite well known suppliers.
They do uniforms, flags, lamps, whistles, keys...just about everything needed to work on a railway.

 

[P156KWJ]

done and dusted - done a LEGAL talk with one of the guys at the GCRN, who has told me he will have one for me on saturday

 

[AlexS]

I've got plenty of keys of various descriptions - best advice is that you have no business carrying them on the national network so don't. Unless you're possibly going to or from Rudd and have some kind of pass to prove you work there, if you get searched by the plod in a random search or are seen with them, you probably aren't going to be in the best situation!

 

[devon_metro]

You could dismantle a 158 with a carriage key

 

[Broken Viking]

Hail All!
I've always been a little dubious about the "security" of J-Keys and other common keys used on the railway. Although I've seen some better designs used on SWTs later rolling stock (444s and 450s mainly) most of them are designed to work with virtually any simple square-shaped object. :roll:

As pointed out above, pairs of pliers and screwdrivers can be used for this purpose, and I do recall an occasion about 18 months ago where I closed and latched some door windows on an SWT 442 (They'd been coaxed open by passengers wishing to smoke on board.) using my own house key!

Maybe the TOCs should get together to create a key standard that isn't so easily circumvented? If I can open/latch a window on a 442 with my house key, then surely I could use the same to gain entry into a Pendo's cab...And we all know how dangerous it would be to have untrained personnel anywhere near a trains control desk... hock:

--- Old post above / New post below: ---

You could dismantle a 158 with a carriage key

Ye could probabally "dismantle" a Pacer with a carefully applied baseball bat! :razz:

Farewell..
>> Death <<

 

[HSTfan!!!]

You could dismantle a 158 with a carriage key

lol wouldn't surprise me in the slightest

 

[455/8]

I have not long started with SWT as a guard and they give you one carriage key an a br1b key and getting hold of spare keys is one of the hardest things to do, so far tho i have been lucky enough not to lose mine yet but not doubt it won't be long before i do and if the wrong typre of person got hold of a carriage key they could cause no end of damage to any of the trains on SWT network.

Alan

 

[AlexS]

You can buy carriage keys at any railwayana meeting thing in the country.

I've had several, but I've given a few away - one was an ancient thing, one was just a carriage door key, and the one I've kept for me is a modern spec carriage and heating key with a hole in the end.

I've had 3 BR1 keys, kept 2, and the cheapest one was a pound from Quorn swapmeet.

The things you don't see floating around are CDL keys which are security keys. The other keys however are in general circulation because so many places that aren't National Rail use mk1 coaching stock.

 

[P156KWJ]

You can buy carriage keys at any railwayana meeting thing in the country.

I've had several, but I've given a few away - one was an ancient thing, one was just a carriage door key, and the one I've kept for me is a modern spec carriage and heating key with a hole in the end.

I've had 3 BR1 keys, kept 2, and the cheapest one was a pound from Quorn swapmeet.

The things you don't see floating around are CDL keys which are security keys. The other keys however are in general circulation because so many places that aren't National Rail use mk1 coaching stock.

all our guards at the GCRN carry the 3-way ones

 

[TheSlash]

Hail All!
I do recall an occasion about 18 months ago where I closed and latched some door windows on an SWT 442 (They'd been coaxed open by passengers wishing to smoke on board.) using my own house key!
Farewell..
>> Death <<

I was wondering if anybody would say that. A carriage key is just a lump of square metal, so it's not hard to imitate it.
A screw driver is good for imitate several other important keys, but i'll leave that for you lot to work out

 

[P156KWJ]

I was wondering if anybody would say that. A carriage key is just a lump of square metal, so it's not hard to imitate it.
A screw driver is good for imitate several other important keys, but i'll leave that for you lot to work out

you can use pliers to open the air-con and electrical switch cuboards in mk2s :roll: could BR be any stupider?

 

[Guinness]

When a universal carriage key first came out I don't think BR were much too worried about Vandalism and Terrorism as this was before the time of Bin Laden. BR just wanted Crews to be able to work any set, any train with standard tools. It was cheap and easy.

IMHO Air Con and Electrical Switches are hardly going to derail a train and cause mass devastation because one deluded person got hold of a T-Key.

 

[Juniper Driver]

This thread does concern me.

I have had trouble on my trains before with people who "illegally" have railway keys which risks the safety and security of the train.

Questions like this should not be being asked..If you work for a company then it's up to them to issue the relevant keys.

 

[driver9000]

This thread does concern me.

I have had trouble on my trains before with people who "illegally" have railway keys which risks the safety and security of the train.

Questions like this should not be being asked..If you work for a company then it's up to them to issue the relevant keys.

I agree, all you need is for some half head to read about what other objects can be used to open railway locks and all manner of chaos would ensue. At the end of the day, if you have a need to open the door/hatch/flap that the lock is fitted to you will be issued with the key to open it - otherwise leave it alone. The railway takes key issue very seriously when I got issued my keys I was given ONE of each that I required and made to sign a form stating that I would take care of them. People selling BR1, Carriage keys, Master keys etc should be reported to the BTP as they are stolen property. There is a very good reason you cant just go out and buy them.

 

[adambro]

It might be illegal to steal a key from work or whatever but what is stopping me from designing and manufacturing one myself considering the simplicity of the key? Would such an object be illegal, I doubt it. Would BTP be interested in you if you had one, of course.

 

[Ascot]

I know someone on the SVR made a carriage key out of the bolt in a door lock and a laccie band round one of the holes. Only thing that was the problem was the heater end, the carriage and bell end can be compromised into the bolt.

 

[AlexS]

As has already been posted, you can purchase them as required - preserved railways don't generally have the cash to give all their volunteers sets of keys!

 

[ungreat]

We had issues at Peterborough with keys thanks to non rail staff getting keys from external sources...you shouldn't have them,end of

PS..I am a driver before anyone pipes up and have been affected by this

 

[Kneedown]

It might be illegal to steal a key from work or whatever but what is stopping me from designing and manufacturing one myself considering the simplicity of the key? Would such an object be illegal, I doubt it. Would BTP be interested in you if you had one, of course.

It would be if you had it with you on railway premises. You could be arrested and charged with "Going equipped for burglary".