Cardiff & Valleys, 29th / 30th June '13

[DaveHarries]

Hi all,

Just come across this. Anyone know what work is to be done over the course of the weekend in question? I thought the boxes weren't due to close until September as I heard the closures had been delayed by 10 weeks from the date previously planned.
http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/140613CardiffRhymney/

Changes to published timetable services on Cardiff & Valleys routes Saturday 29 and Sunday 30 June

As part of an on-going project, Network Rail is carrying out improvement work on the line between Cardiff and Rhymney and between Radyr and Cardiff to replace old equipment. This will mean that train operators will be able to provide a more reliable service in the future.

While I think of it, I noted the other day that a gantry had been erected at Cardiff Q/St for two signals to be mounted on it. But I am surprised that, if the work entails a number of stations not getting services on the Saturday, the service isn't cancelled entirely.

Dave

 

[cmjcf]

I suspect there's a lot of work happening around Queen St itself, which I assume will include resigning the station for the platform renumbering (1-2-3 will become 4-3-2). The island waiting room/cafe will be closed for the next couple of weeks.

I also assume the gantry you've seen is part of capacity improvements. Currently, up trains departing P6 CDF have pass three signals (463-427-465) on the way to CDQ, while down trains have only one (414). I notice that replacement heads for 412 and 512 (P3) are already in place and bagged over. I have no idea whether these are in a state to be plugged in and switched on over that weekend, maybe someone else here knows that.

Incidentally, does anyone have any more detailed information about the project? The various places I've found online are rather light on detail. It was only in talking to someone recently that I found out that part of the plan for CDF may include reinstating P5. ATW's page links to NR's page, which says very little and links to WG's page, which says even less.

 

[JohnCarlson]

I suspect there's a lot of work happening around Queen St itself, which I assume will include resigning the station for the platform renumbering (1-2-3 will become 4-3-2). The island waiting room/cafe will be closed for the next couple of weeks.

I also assume the gantry you've seen is part of capacity improvements. Currently, up trains departing P6 CDF have pass three signals (463-427-465) on the way to CDQ, while down trains have only one (414). I notice that replacement heads for 412 and 512 (P3) are already in place and bagged over. I have no idea whether these are in a state to be plugged in and switched on over that weekend, maybe someone else here knows that.

Incidentally, does anyone have any more detailed information about the project? The various places I've found online are rather light on detail. It was only in talking to someone recently that I found out that part of the plan for CDF may include reinstating P5. ATW's page links to NR's page, which says very little and links to WG's page, which says even less.

I was under the impression that there will be 5 platforms when work is complete.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was under the impression that there will be 5 platforms when work is complete.

CARDIFF:
Extra platform at Cardiff Central
Refurbished southern entrance at Cardiff Central
Two extra platforms at Queen Street
Extra bay platform at Queen Street for Cardiff Bay shuttle service
Refurbished Queen Street station with new entrance (pictured above)
Doubling of the Treforest Curve (Cardiff West Junction to Ninian Park) to enable improved frequency of trains onto/from the City lines
BARRY:
Extra platform at Barry station
Upgraded freight line at Cogan Junction to enable passenger trains
RHYMNEY VALLEY:
Extra platform and passing loop at Tir-phil
Extra platform at Caerphilly
PONTYPRIDD:
Extra platform and passing loop at Pontypridd
Source: Network Rail


According to

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-13040129

 

[cmjcf]

I was under the impression that there will be 5 platforms when work is complete.

The new platforms will be either side of the existing ones. West side platform rebuilt and reinstated for up trains (P5), and a new bay for the Bay on the east side (P1).

That list seems to be the same sort of incomplete information I've seen elsewhere. Some say that the bay at Central will be reinstated, others say that there's a new station involved somewhere, elsewhere I've heard varying accounts of what may or may not happen at Ponty (old platform reinstated, new bay on one or other side, etc.). Would be nice if one of the many bodies involved would just come out with exactly what is (or is not) on the plans, and roughly when they're expecting to deliver each bit. That doesn't really seem like too much to ask. Especially given NR have plenty of info available about Thameslink and Reading, and even the Cotswold redoubling. The only reference to this on their site is that one page with next to no information on it.

 

[aleph_0]

My understanding is the Cardiff Central bay platform was in initial plans/ambitions, but was dropped by the time the funding was finalised/they released more details (but I don't have a good citation for this).

Interesting to see that they're running trains direct from Ninian Park to Grangetown due to the engineering works. A bit of track that doesn't normally see many passenger trains, I guess, for those in to that sort of thing.

 

[CardiffKid]

I suspect there's a lot of work happening around Queen St itself, which I assume will include resigning the station for the platform renumbering (1-2-3 will become 4-3-2). The island waiting room/cafe will be closed for the next couple of weeks.

Someone how knows a bit more is going to need to explain that numbering.

I assume when it's all complete Platmorm 5 will be the new Cardiff Bay platform and the new platform 1 will be directly above where the ticket office is/was.

The numbering 1-5 does appear to be backwards, no - or am I missing something?

 

[krus_aragon]

Someone how knows a bit more is going to need to explain that numbering.

I assume when it's all complete Platmorm 5 will be the new Cardiff Bay platform and the new platform 1 will be directly above where the ticket office is/was.

The numbering 1-5 does appear to be backwards, no - or am I missing something?

I'd likewise assumed the reinstated through platform (previously platform 1) would become platform 1 again, with the 'Bay' bay designated as 5.

 

[cmjcf]

The numbering 1-5 does appear to be backwards, no - or am I missing something?

No, you're right, it is backwards. In most of the non-shacks I've been to, numbers tend to increase away from the main entrance. According to the new numbering, the new bay for the Bay, furthest from the doors, will be 1. It also seems to make even less sense given the new up platform is likely to be finished much earlier. The main constraint is of course on the down (i.e. to Central).

I suppose getting gates on the rear exit (which is big enough for the same five as the front) is too much to ask for.

 

[steevp]

No, you're right, it is backwards. In most of the non-shacks I've been to, numbers tend to increase away from the main entrance.

Kings Cross is like that with the new entrance being the opposite side of the station from platform 0

 

[aleph_0]

It's a shame there aren't more details given about the logic here. I wonder if there's a reason why the planned renumbering is less risky/easier to implement. In particular, platform old-2 is Cardiff-bound, whereas platform old-1 is Valleys-bound. Confusing these two is a bad idea.

Whereas the planned renumbering only risks confusing 2 and 3, which are both essentially Cardiff-bound lines. Of course, my lay-man's guessing might be totally wrong.

As a passenger, having the numbering opposite to all the surrounding stations is confusing. A platform-0 solution would have been better, imo.

 

[CardiffKid]

A platform-0 solution would have been better, imo.

Couldn't agree more

 

[PHILIPE]

So much for 12 weeks. The alterations are not yet in Journey Planner or Realtimetrains.

 

[cmjcf]

Kings Cross is like that with the new entrance being the opposite side of the station from platform 0

That's a case of the main entrance moving while platform numbers don't. AIUI at CDQ the main entrance will stay on the same side while the platform numbers flip over.

 

[cragdrummer]

Im glad the logic of the platform renumbering has been bought up here as I was going to ask about it also. Read a tweet from ATW today saying about the renumbering and looked at the further details which does state the following:

Arriva Trains Wales is advising passengers that there will be changes to platform numbers at Cardiff Queen St [CDQ] station from 1st July 2013. This is in preparation for the 2 new platforms currently under construction at Cardiff Queen Street station.

The renumbering will be as follows:
From the 1st July :
•Current Platform 1 will become platform 4 (for services towards Pontypridd, Caerphilly, Treherbert, Merthyr, Aberdare)
•Current platform 2 will become Platform 3 (Services towards Barry, Penarth, Radyr (via the City Line) and Vale of Glamorgan)
•Current platform 3 will become Platform 2 (Services to Cardiff Bay)
(source is http://www.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/ImprovingtheRailwayAroundCardiff/)

Now having travelled through CDQ a month or 2 ago and loads of time before, the old platform which is opposite the current up valleys platform 1 is being rebuilt to be used. So based on the information above, this looks to be the New Platform 5, which then gives a layout of 5 4 3 2 and then a bay platform which will be 1?
Whilst on the topic of Valley Lines overhaul, I was at Caerphilly station last night and works for the new bay platform there are proceeding nicely. Even the new buffer stop is on site (in the car park) and new theatre signal on the up line towards Bargoed in place

 

[Ivo]

Forgive the ignorance, but is Queen Street going to have five platforms then? Surely there's no room for a fifth platform there? Or am I misreading something?

 

[hilly]

Forgive the ignorance, but is Queen Street going to have five platforms then? Surely there's no room for a fifth platform there? Or am I misreading something?

2 northbound platforms (current 1, and reused platform above booking office)
2 southbound platforms ( current 2 + 3)
1 south bound bay platform for cardiff bay services - new build

 

[Quakers Yard]

There is an old and ripped up but now well overgrown trackbed behind the current Bay platform. I reckon that is where the new Bute Road line will be put. It is hard to notice but I reckon there was a bay platform there once seemingly. We will see!

 

[Requeststop]

I was at Cardiff QS Tuesday. In my trip report there are a couple of photo's of the on-going work there.

 

[PHILIPE]

So much for 12 weeks. The alterations are not yet in Journey Planner or Realtimetrains.

What I have now discovered is that Journey Pkanner still shows normal service but if you Click onto Status (shewn as 1) you will be directed to details of Engineering Work link.

 

[cmjcf]

What I have now discovered is that Journey Pkanner still shows normal service but if you Click onto Status (shewn as 1) you will be directed to details of Engineering Work link.

At a guess, if there's details but no timetables, I'd think that means the STP workings haven't been worked out yet. It may be that other work before those closures will affect what they're able to lay on.

 

[PHILIPE]

How are people supposed to know the times of trains because ATW do not publish STP Timetables on Posters at stations or on line. Next, how are passengers supposed to pre book tickets ? The alterations are not reflected
in Realtime trains or opentraintimes. The point I was trying to stress os that yhis info and facilities to book should have been in the system 12 WEEKS in advance and there are now only days to go.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Posters up at Queen St saying Platforms will be renumbered as from 01 July 2013.

 

[cmjcf]

How are people supposed to know the times of trains because ATW do not publish STP Timetables on Posters at stations or on line.

CDQ is currently literally plastered with posters detailing the disruptions due in the next few weekends, along with the service pattern that will be.

Next, how are passengers supposed to pre book tickets ?

That's one for the fares and ticketing gurus.

The alterations are not reflected in Realtime trains or opentraintimes

They're not psychic. They can't tell you what the alterations for September will look like if ATW haven't yet figured it out themselves. Meanwhile, for this weekend, RTT is correctly showing the valleys trains as running via the City Line.

The point I was trying to stress os that yhis info and facilities to book should have been in the system 12 WEEKS in advance and there are now only days to go.

That's the working timetable. STP is the process for workings at rather shorter notice - technically anything that needs to be go in after the WTT is finalised, but usually at much less than 12 weeks notice. Strictly speaking, STP workings can go in at any time up until 10pm the previous day.

 

[PHILIPE]

The disruptions are posted and states trains run at amended times. But what are the times ???
I know all about LTP and STP and Engineering alterations to the WTT must be uploaded to the system 12 weeks in advance. Whatever you say. I think I am qualified to know what I am talking about as I have been a Train Planner before retirement.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Information re times is absolute shambles. Journey Planner still shews booked service with Status 1 directing to link re summary of alterations by route. The ATW Website summary states reduced services on some routes at different times to normal and any enquiries should be made at stations, where staffed.
There are routes quoted where service is reduced from half hourly to hourly so does this mean that passengers can turn up and have to wait 59 minutes for a train ?
I wonder what the CIS will show on the day unless there is late upload of a Timetable to the system..

 

[Gwenllian2001]

The Timetables are now up on the ATW Website.

 

[PHILIPE]

All I get is a 404 Message. They are in Journey Planner now. Indidentally, I saw station posters to day saying "turn up and aks".

 

[cmjcf]

Some pictures from the last few days.

The temporary cafe facilities:


Work coming along nicely on the new up platform at the north end:


Not so much at the south end:

 

[Ian99]

Hi

I'm planning a trip from Cardiff to Treherbert and then back from Aberdare to Cardiff this Sunday 30th June - I can't see any mention on the National Rail App of it being a replacement bus service but could do with some reassurance from someone in the know.

Can anyone advise please?

Thanks

Ian

 

[cmjcf]

No buses beyond Radyr on that side. Trains for stations further away, but may need to change at Grangetown for Aberdare though. As always, allow extra time and check when you get there. Booked platforming is all over the place.

 

[Ian99]

Thanks for the prompt reply.

We'll be staying in Cardiff overnight so there's no tight connections.

I'm not familiar with the area - is Radyr between Cardiff and Treherbert?