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Caledonian Sleeper discussion

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47271

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The (old stock) sleeper cars going forward are being confingured as per the new stock which I believe is a composite of “first” and “standard” in each sleeper car, rather than a car being all of one class or the other.

And it would appear (as you’d expect) that the premium berths are those in the middle and the standard ones are over the bogies.
Not quite accurate on the bogies, First occupies pretty much two thirds of each coach, including the over bogie area at one end. Standard lurches around the bogie at the other end. 11L and 13L remain the prime spots in the middle, never settle for anything less!
 
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TimboM

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Not quite accurate on the bogies, First occupies pretty much two thirds of each coach, including the over bogie area at one end. Standard lurches around the bogie at the other end. 11L and 13L remain the prime spots in the middle, never settle for anything less!
Thanks for the clarification :)
 

nom de guerre

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Q - must run via booked route/line
X - cannot be routed via ARS as restrictions to route availability apply

So in many ways Q is acting as a more restrictive version of X.

I signal X (and Q) trains on a regular basis and I'm not aware of any instruction prohibiting the use of ARS.

Yes, I'm expected to ensure correct routing as per the relevant TAN/RT3973 paperwork and yes, that may involve suitably manipulating ARS - but equally, it may not. (Some recurring Q and X movements use WTT paths which ARS generally handles perfectly adequately; bona fide one-off moves tend not to be 'in' ARS at all.)

The only prohibitions I know of regarding ARS relate to degraded working scenarios or T3s (in axle counter areas).
 

Chrism20

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As mentioned by @theironroad a link to the Scotsman article is below

Bookings for the new stock open next month apparently and as expected will be on the lowlander first.

A Caledonian Sleeper spokesman said: "There has been slippage in the manufacturer's programme.

“We now anticipate we will begin a phased introduction of the new Caledonian Sleeper trains in October 2018.

"With trains currently in testing, we have discovered further improvements could be made to the trains to enhance the guest experience.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...leeper-trains-delayed-until-october-1-4662730
 

Peter Mugridge

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Not quite accurate on the bogies, First occupies pretty much two thirds of each coach, including the over bogie area at one end. Standard lurches around the bogie at the other end. 11L and 13L remain the prime spots in the middle, never settle for anything less!

Suits me - my favoured berth is 23L in the existing stock... do we know what the berth number is yet for the endmost "classic" in the new stock?
 

Mag_seven

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Looks like the bad weather has impacted on the Aberdeen and Fort William Highlander sleeper portions this morning:

Fort William Portion 73L leaving Crianlarich
Aberdeen Portion 70L arrival at Aberdeen.

Inverness portion doesn't seem to have had any issues - just 16L at Inverness.
 

Class172

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Is there a plan online of where the different berths lie along the carriage? I've got 08U/08L booked for a trip in a few months time and wondered where it is.
 

theironroad

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As mentioned by @theironroad a link to the Scotsman article is below

Bookings for the new stock open next month apparently and as expected will be on the lowlander first.



https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...leeper-trains-delayed-until-october-1-4662730


Thanks for posting the link . I'm really not that tablet IT incompetent but I find it a faff posting links on railforums with the requirement to post the initial part of the article as well, so have generally stopped posting any links as I get reprimanded for posting links without the article text. So thanks for doing it.
 

Carlisle

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Looks like the bad weather has impacted on the Aberdeen and Fort William Highlander sleeper portions this morning:

Fort William Portion 73L leaving Crianlarich
Aberdeen Portion 70L arrival at Aberdeen.

Inverness portion doesn't seem to have had any issues - just 16L at Inverness.
Sounds like the railway has coped extremely well considering folk were trapped for many hours on the M74 near Moffat
 

47271

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Is there a plan online of where the different berths lie along the carriage? I've got 08U/08L booked for a trip in a few months time and wondered where it is.
Plans are on the sleeper website. Even numbers are uppers and odds lowers with 24 numbered berths in total per coach, so 8 is an upper exactly one third along the carriage.
 

SC318250

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Looks like the bad weather has impacted on the Aberdeen and Fort William Highlander sleeper portions this morning:

Fort William Portion 73L leaving Crianlarich
Aberdeen Portion 70L arrival at Aberdeen.

Inverness portion doesn't seem to have had any issues - just 16L at Inverness.


Inverness portion left not too late from Edinburgh, however the loco for Aberdeen portion and Fort William portion were late off Craigentinney.
 

Class172

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Plans are on the sleeper website. Even numbers are uppers and odds lowers with 24 numbered berths in total per coach, so 8 is an upper exactly one third along the carriage.
I could only find the virtual views of the different accommodation types.

My email confirmation (and e-ticket) definitely says (Coach K) 08U and 08L, so I would presume they were in the same cabin, but you suggest that one of these should be an odd number - has there been an error somewhere perhaps that I need to check up on?
 

Caleb2010

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I've always understood it as 12 or 13 cabins divided up into upper and lower berths, unless first-class (just lower)

therefore 8U / 8L would indeed be in the same cabin about 2/3 along a standard class (as was) coach.
 

47271

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I could only find the virtual views of the different accommodation types.

My email confirmation (and e-ticket) definitely says (Coach K) 08U and 08L, so I would presume they were in the same cabin, but you suggest that one of these should be an odd number - has there been an error somewhere perhaps that I need to check up on?
Sorry, I wasn't very clear when I directed you to their site. What I meant was that if you start the process of making a dummy booking then you'll find yourself looking at detailed coach plans three or four steps in. I'd screen shot it but some of the type is in grey so you're better viewing it direct.

The cabin including 8U also has 7L on the plan but I imagine that any booking that is showing as two 8s has to be the upper and lower in that compartment, you can't possibly have another 8 elsewhere in the coach.

I think it's very unlikely to be wrong.
 

DelW

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The top en suite rooms start at £200. Bit disappointed that the seats are not flatter airline style beds, they look more like a non reclining Ryanair seat.
But on overnight long-haul flights you normally have to pay well into four figures to get a lie-flat seat (despite what airline advertising might want to suggest). The great majority of economy and premium economy pax just get a normal seat that reclines a few inches at best.

I've once flown overnight in first-class on BA (courtesy of a complicated deal involving vouchers and air miles) which would have cost around £5k at full price, and for that you get rather less comfort and much less privacy than the cabin berths on the current sleeper stock. Food and drink were better though!
 

marks87

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Ah, ok. Having now had a Google, I see there is an article in today's Scotsman about a 6 month delay in introduction, now October. However the new restriction that strangers can't share will be implemented from 26 February.

The top en suite rooms start at £200. Bit disappointed that the seats are not flatter airline style beds, they look more like a non reclining Ryanair seat.

The single bed en-suite rooms are due to start at £125. Which, if any do appear at that price, is pretty good value for money compared to a day train and hotel (or even a flight and hotel).

It's also a price where I could probably convince my employer to pay it on expenses despite technically being "first class".
 

BRX

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But on overnight long-haul flights you normally have to pay well into four figures to get a lie-flat seat (despite what airline advertising might want to suggest). The great majority of economy and premium economy pax just get a normal seat that reclines a few inches at best.

I've once flown overnight in first-class on BA (courtesy of a complicated deal involving vouchers and air miles) which would have cost around £5k at full price, and for that you get rather less comfort and much less privacy than the cabin berths on the current sleeper stock. Food and drink were better though!

The prices of lie-flat seats on airlines aren't really relevant to the sleeper as that's not what they are competing with. No-one will ever be choosing between the sleeper (seated or berth) and a lie-flat airline journey.

They'll be choosing between a couple of hours in a standard airline seat, vs overnight in a sleeper bed or seat.
 

Bletchleyite

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The single bed en-suite rooms are due to start at £125. Which, if any do appear at that price, is pretty good value for money compared to a day train and hotel (or even a flight and hotel).

It's also a price where I could probably convince my employer to pay it on expenses despite technically being "first class".

Because of the resistance from employers to 1st class, I think they are likely to move to what DB traditionally did, which is a Standard Class train with room supplements.
 

DelW

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The prices of lie-flat seats on airlines aren't really relevant to the sleeper as that's not what they are competing with. No-one will ever be choosing between the sleeper (seated or berth) and a lie-flat airline journey.

They'll be choosing between a couple of hours in a standard airline seat, vs overnight in a sleeper bed or seat.
Yes, I realise that they're not in competition with airline business class or first class seating on flights on Anglo-Scottish routes - I commuted weekly between Surrey and Glasgow (by air) a few years ago. It was just a comment on the relative comfort and costs, for comparable travel times (but not distances) - I've come across a few people who have seen the airline adverts and assume all passengers on overnight flights get flat-bed type seats.
 

Caleb2010

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It seems the Sleeper is beginning to price itself high!
A daytime virgin train at £15 advance fare plus a travelodge type place at £40 is still less than half the estimated Sleeper fare.

How long before it becomes a daily summer service with weekends only in the winter purely because they price themselves out of the leisure market in the quiet times!

I use the inverness Sleeper a bit and try to travel during quiet periods, treating it as a ‘use it or lose it’ exercise, but if the minimum fare is £125, then virgin + travelodge @ £55 is looking more like the way to go.

If the Scottish government have stipulated that it must be a six day a week service, then fine - they’re paying for it! - but why have such a high price that passengers are deterred from using it!

Not that I’m ranting at all!!
 

Leisurefirst

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I settled for seats on the "new trains" later this year as they wouldn't discount the berths anymore with our railcard because "it's a completely different product". Now find I'll be in the same old product anyway and they're still not honouring the railcard for berths. Great. Only really booked because the new stock was due in months before and thought the new seats might be better than the "never again" old. Let's hope we at least get there this time (last time got hit by the ScotRail guards strike and was bussed from Edinburgh to Fort William which was at least quicker but destroyed the reason for the journey as never got to do the line...was booked from Inverness coming back.)
 
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BRX

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The pods would have been very attractive to the Advance (or easyJet)+Travelodge market. It's a real, real shame they could not be made to work.
Yes.
I reckon they could have been made to work. But weren't.
 
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