Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[Scotrail84]

67018 having ETH issues on 1M16 tonight, now 35 late away from Kingussie.

That won’t make it to Edinburgh with no ETH imo.

 

[47271]

Not helped by the weather being -1C and steady snow in the area at the moment...

 

[Scotrail84]

Are these new coaches on the move yet?

 

[Far north 37]

Are these new coaches on the move yet?

Still not showing as left wembley yard yet booked 23.06 departure.

 

[ScottDarg]

Are these new coaches on the move yet?

Doesn't look like it, booked departure was 20ish mins ago.

Path for anyone curious: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R67085/2018/01/15/advanced

EDIT: Now away 35L

 

[TimboM]

The issue is that the NRAP certificate doesn't clear them into Wembley, so no.

Aye - all makes sense now!
Common(ish) sense prevailed in the end it would seem.

 

[47271]

I understand from a passenger on board that the southbound Inverness section is running fine. The 67 did have an ETH issue so things are a little bit fresh on board but those who are aware are looking forward to the electric loco connecting up...

 

[TimboM]

I understand from a passenger on board that the southbound Inverness section is running fine. The 67 did have an ETH issue so things are a little bit fresh on board but those who are aware are looking forward to the electric loco connecting up...

No pressure on 92033 then...

 

[IanXC]

I'm surprised that the train was running under a "Q" headcode rather than an "X" headcode which is usually the norm for a train with gauging restrictions?

Q - must run via booked route/line
X - cannot be routed via ARS as restrictions to route availability apply

So in many ways Q is acting as a more restrictive version of X.

 

[TimboM]

I understand from a passenger on board that the southbound Inverness section is running fine. The 67 did have an ETH issue so things are a little bit fresh on board but those who are aware are looking forward to the electric loco connecting up...

Would appear 73967+73971 have subbed in for 67018 on 1S25 this morning - most likely as a result of these ETH issues.

I'm guessing it has happened before(?) but all North of Edinburgh portions northbound were therefore 73/9 hauled (966 on Fort William / 968 on Aberdeen) - and with 969/970 still in Brush it also means the full complement of available 73/9s are out working.

 

[swaldman]

I put this in the mk5 thread too... but here are the new coaches on their way through south london this afternoon.

Curious - why the freight wagons before and after the sleepers?

 

[TimboM]

Curious - why the freight wagons before and after the sleepers?

Barrier wagons - have two purposes, one is to “convert the coupling” from the Dellners the Mk5s have to the “classic” couplings various locos hauling the stock across Europe will have had. The ferryvans are serving this purpose (as well as providing brake-force as follows...).

Second is to provide brake force - the coaches weigh about 215 tonnes in total but likely to be not approved yet to be able to be braked independently using their own braking systems, so the heavy freight wagons either side with their brakes, along with the loco, provide sufficient braking force for the coaches (as well as themselves).

 

[swaldman]

Barrier wagons - have two purposes, one is to “convert the coupling” from the Dellners the Mk5s have to the “classic” couplings various locos hauling the stock across Europe will have had. The ferryvans are serving this purpose (as well as providing brake-force as follows...).

Second is to provide brake force - the coaches weigh about 215 tonnes in total but likely to be not approved yet to be able to be braked independently using their own braking systems, so the heavy freight wagons either side with their brakes, along with the loco, provide sufficient braking force for the coaches (as well as themselves).

Thanks!

 

[Highlandspring]

Would appear 73967+73971 have subbed in for 67018 on 1S25 this morning - most likely as a result of these ETH issues.

I'm guessing it has happened before(?) but all North of Edinburgh portions northbound were therefore 73/9 hauled (966 on Fort William / 968 on Aberdeen) - and with 969/970 still in Brush it also means the full complement of available 73/9s are out working.

it has definitely happened before.

 

[TimboM]

it has definitely happened before.

Thanks for confirming.
Will be happening every night before too long!

 

[Mag_seven]

Q - must run via booked route/line
X - cannot be routed via ARS as restrictions to route availability apply

So in many ways Q is acting as a more restrictive version of X.

I get that but I'm sure "Q" is reserved for measurement trains which for obvious reasons must run on their booked route/line.

I assume it was running with an "RT3973EXL Exceptional load form"? If so I've been looking at the latest "Working Manual for Rail Staff - Freight Train Operations" on RSSB and it states the following:

"RT3973EXL Exceptional load form used the carriage of exceptional loads which do not come within CON/HAW/NUC categories"

and in particular under para 2.7:

2.7 Trainidentity Trains conveying the vehicles carrying ‘exceptional load’ labels must be given a train identity in the form _X__.

 

[TimboM]

I get that but I'm sure "Q" is reserved for measurement trains which for obvious reasons must run on their booked route/line.

I assume it was running with an "RT3973EXL Exceptional load form"? If so I've been looking at the latest "Working Manual for Rail Staff - Freight Train Operations" on RSSB and it states the following:

"RT3973EXL Exceptional load form used the carriage of exceptional loads which do not come within CON/HAW/NUC categories"

and in particular under para 2.7:

2.7 Trainidentity Trains conveying the vehicles carrying ‘exceptional load’ labels must be given a train identity in the form _X__.

I guess there's the possibility the letter used was erroneously Q rather than X - it wouldn't have been the only error on the form...?!

 

[Iskra]

Inverness portion has 2x73 sat on the front again tonight. Anyone know what time the sleeper lounge opens at Inverness?

 

[Macwomble]

Some photos of the new Mk5 stock going through Uddingston on the railscot home page.

https://www.railscot.co.uk/

 

[TimboM]

Inverness portion has 2x73 sat on the front again tonight. Anyone know what time the sleeper lounge opens at Inverness?

Will be 967+971 again - what (usually!) goes up must come down or more accurately for the railway what goes down must come up...

 

[GB]

So in many ways Q is acting as a more restrictive version of X.

Not quite as I am sure Q can be routed via ARS...something that you don't wan't if there are special restrictions. Also Q could potentially be run through any platforms at a station where as X might be barred from say going through P2 or must only go via P3 for example...or a speed restriction passed a certain structure etc etc.

If its an exceptional load it should run as an X with accompanying paper work (RT3973EXL), all signallers along the line of route should have a copy or equivalent too.

 

[Ben.A.98]

Sorry, I forget not everyone speaks the lingo... The 'Network Rail Assurance Panel Certificate of Compatibility' lists the routes for which an item of rolling stock has been assessed, states whether or not it is cleared to run over those routes and lists any restrictions.

So the certificate may state that Mk5 coaches of sub types X, Y and Z are cleared to run from A to C via B under tare test conditions, as empty stock and in service; they may run from C to F but not via E under tare test conditions or as empty stock only; they must run at a maximum speed of 20mph over bridge 123 between A and B; they are prohibited from using bay platform 3 at C and are prohibited from running between C and F with the air suspension deflated. Repeat for every possible route you may ever wish to run the rolling stock over...

Eventually the data in the certificate makes it into the Route Clearance tables in the Sectional Appendix but the NRAP certificate will be reissued whenever rolling stock is assessed for a new route or a new restriction is applied.

Thanks

 

[Iskra]

Will be 967+971 again - what (usually!) goes up must come down or more accurately for the railway what goes down must come up...

Thank you, I’m happy about the ETH issues as the 67 was dud and I’m on it tonight

 

[theironroad]

Does anyone know what's going on with the allocation of berths on current lowland sleepers?

When trying to select a standard class shared berth it's recently been showing that single occupied cabins and shared berth cabins are being allocated in the same coachon every coach. The shared berth are all at the end of the carriage above bogies and less favourable than centre of carriage.

With the demise of cheap bargain fares and only seemingly full price tickets at short notice, serco seem to be doing an excellent job of sending people to airlines unless from the handful that must travel late at night.

It seems that they're are preparing the ground for wanting to attract only first/business class level customers when their new hotels on wheels arrive.

 

[3973EXL]

If its an exceptional load it should run as an X with accompanying paper work (RT3973EXL), all signallers along the line of route should have a copy or equivalent too.

Precisely as you say.

The form includes the route over which the train must run and from which it may not be diverted. Hence the reason both the signallers and driver must be in possession of the form.
Then any restrictions.

Headcodes are not part of the form as produced, but added for the service the load is conveyed on.

The reason a load maybe running as exceptional "XLD" can be varied.
Out of Gauge
Speed restriction required
Must run over a particular route
Does not conform in some way to the Working Manual for Railstaff
etc.

If for example the brakes are isolated on the five coaches, this contravenes the Working Manual (max 3 piped vehicles together) and requires permission from NR to run on the Network, RT3973EXL. Any train then conveying this load then becomes an X headcode.

 

[Iskra]

Does anyone know what's going on with the allocation of berths on current lowland sleepers?

When trying to select a standard class shared berth it's recently been showing that single occupied cabins and shared berth cabins are being allocated in the same coachon every coach. The shared berth are all at the end of the carriage above bogies and less favourable than centre of carriage.

With the demise of cheap bargain fares and only seemingly full price tickets at short notice, serco seem to be doing an excellent job of sending people to airlines unless from the handful that must travel late at night.

It seems that they're are preparing the ground for wanting to attract only first/business class level customers when their new hotels on wheels arrive.

The prices for a berth have rocketed, but the seats are still reasonably-priced I believe, so budget travellers are still catered for, but it’s more a case of you get what you pay for nowadays. Those that HAVE to travel still will, but it’s going to reduce speculative leisure travel.

But it still compares reasonably with a day time train/flight and an overnight hotel, so is competitive. I’d prefer it cheaper, but this is the real world.

 

[TimboM]

Does anyone know what's going on with the allocation of berths on current lowland sleepers?

When trying to select a standard class shared berth it's recently been showing that single occupied cabins and shared berth cabins are being allocated in the same coachon every coach. The shared berth are all at the end of the carriage above bogies and less favourable than centre of carriage...

The (old stock) sleeper cars going forward are being confingured as per the new stock which I believe is a composite of “first” and “standard” in each sleeper car, rather than a car being all of one class or the other.

And it would appear (as you’d expect) that the premium berths are those in the middle and the standard ones are over the bogies.

 

[Kite159]

The Aberdeen seats for Friday night looks quiet, a dummy booking and there is only 10 seats currently taken. No doubt it will increase nearer the end of the week, but London - Aberdeen on a January Friday I would imagine isn't the busiest of routes.

At least I should get a 73/9 into my book, with 969 & 970 both being away at Brush. Cue 67007 making a special comeback

 

[TimboM]

The Aberdeen seats for Friday night looks quiet, a dummy booking and there is only 10 seats currently taken. No doubt it will increase nearer the end of the week, but London - Aberdeen on a January Friday I would imagine isn't the busiest of routes.

At least I should get a 73/9 into my book, with 969 & 970 both being away at Brush. Cue 67007 making a special comeback

67007 on B exam at Crewe so (very) unlikely!

 

[theironroad]

The (old stock) sleeper cars going forward are being confingured as per the new stock which I believe is a composite of “first” and “standard” in each sleeper car, rather than a car being all of one class or the other.

And it would appear (as you’d expect) that the premium berths are those in the middle and the standard ones are over the bogies.

Ah, ok. Having now had a Google, I see there is an article in today's Scotsman about a 6 month delay in introduction, now October. However the new restriction that strangers can't share will be implemented from 26 February.

The top en suite rooms start at £200. Bit disappointed that the seats are not flatter airline style beds, they look more like a non reclining Ryanair seat.