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Caledonian Sleeper discussion

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ScottDarg

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The main issue/reason would be the stock - if they sent the other two portions away, there'd be pretty much no realistic way of getting the Inverness portion stock to London for tonight's (Lowlander) service back North tonight. They could probably cope with not sending the three Fort William coaches, say, and short forming the Lowlander on a Tues night in November (depending on Loadings) - but not really possible to run a Glasgow/Edinburgh service with one of the two 8-coach portions missing.

Makes sense, thanks!

Looks like it has just past Wembley, so depending on platform availability at Euston might be able to arrive before midday!

Looking at diagrams, 1M16 is scheduled in to 15 which is currently empty with nothing (at least as far as I can see) set to go in before 1M16 gets there.

0M16 is also right behind it, ready to bring the long night to a close.
 
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47271

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You'll also be surprised to learn that I'm getting good feedback - the underlying breakdown aside - from a couple of passengers aboard the very delayed Highlander.

Unlike the Ophelia night, no-one got turfed out of their beds. Anyone joining the train south of Aviemore was taxied to Waverley so they could get to bed in the Aberdeen section a good 90 minutes ahead of the Inverness portion arriving. Okay, they didn't go to sleep until 2am but given they could kip on until 10 then this wasn't a huge problem.

The Ophelia night comment has been raised once again though - if they can handle both Highlanders in Waverley at once at 430am, the ordinary passenger struggles to understand why they had to be evacuated at 3am a few weeks ago.

Anyway, there may be other people aboard who are extremely upset, but the regulars are pretty relaxed about it.
 

TimboM

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You'll also be surprised to learn that I'm getting good feedback - the underlying breakdown aside - from a couple of passengers aboard the very delayed Highlander.

Unlike the Ophelia night, no-one got turfed out of their beds. Anyone joining the train south of Aviemore was taxied to Waverley so they could get to bed in the Aberdeen section a good 90 minutes ahead of the Inverness portion arriving. Okay, they didn't go to sleep until 2am but given they could kip on until 10 then this wasn't a huge problem.

The Ophelia night comment has been raised once again though - if they can handle both Highlanders in Waverley at once at 430am, the ordinary passenger struggles to understand why they had to be evacuated at 3am a few weeks ago.

Anyway, there may be other people aboard who are extremely upset, but the regulars are pretty relaxed about it.
That's good to hear - a silver lining of sorts.

Regarding the two trains in Waverley at once - on the Ophelia night, the biggest issue/challenge was that with the northbound Highlander cancelled, the trains the southbound passengers were on had to be turned round and sent back North to be in the right place for the next night, using the booked locos, drivers, guards, paths etc. - and ensuring the staff were where they needed to be and had sufficient rest before their next shift.

Last night, the northbound portions were all running OK (ish) and the train they were on instead needed to get South to London, so there wasn't the issue of having to turf them off and get the stock back to the northern termini.

Also on the Ophelia night if they'd let them stay in the berths until a reasonable hour, aside from the logistical issues above, the 16 coaches plus 4 locos would have been sat in Waverley for a good couple of hours, encroaching on the start of the morning services, whereas last night they were both in together, but at c.4am with both being got on their way as soon as possible.

Hope that's an explanation of sorts...??

Do we know if passengers from the other two legs were allowed to change to the VTEC service at Edinburgh?

What is the standard procedure for the CS, do they knock on the cabins and tell people, or leave them to wake up at Carlisle when they are expecting to be at Rugby?

I'm not sure what was offered, but I doubt it if you think of the timings. The Aberdeen and Fort Bill sections arrived into Waverley at c.01:00-01:15. I doubt many passengers would appreciate being woken up at that time to be asked if they want waking up again at 5am to be turfed on the VTEC service (assuming ticket acceptance was even arranged). And then again, when 1S25 was formed up and finally ready to leave about 4am, I doubt many people would've appreciated being woken then in their warm berths to be given the option of going on the Virgin service and arriving late still (but a little less late).

The only ones who may have been offered an option were those on the Inverness, especially those bussed to Edinburgh from South of Aviemore, but even if they were I think getting into the berths and getting heads down for some decent sleep and a lie-in would be preferable for most as @47271 has suggested.
 

87015

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Can anyone recall that happening before? - over 800 miles in one night for the trusty Skoda.
"trusty" - shame it lost best part of an hour spinning its wheels and going nowhere trying to climb to Carstairs :lol: ;) Presumably it was sent back to avoid using 92028 after its (unspecified) issues going north the previous night where it is shown as losing time around Shap and the option was there to not risk it as well as going at 100mph?

Some palava with 73xxx(?) on the Aberdeen portion too this morning...
 

TimboM

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"trusty" - shame it lost best part of an hour spinning its wheels and going nowhere trying to climb to Carstairs :lol: ;) Presumably it was sent back to avoid using 92028 after its (unspecified) issues going north the previous night where it is shown as losing time around Shap and the option was there to not risk it as well as going at 100mph?

Some palava with 73xxx(?) on the Aberdeen portion too this morning...
Think it was a typo and added the "t" in at the start by mistake :lol:
92014 was at Waverley having taken 5C11 out (for 92028 to work 1C11) so I think 92014 was "Plan A" for 1M16, but when the southbound was running so late my assumption is 90042 was turned round due to its extra speed. However, with hindsight the 92 would've been better with its 2 extra axles. The extra 12.5 mph isn't much use if you lose an hour trying to get up a hill!

It would appear 92028 worked the Carstairs portion last night (1C11/1B26/5B26) which involves using both cabs, ETS at both ends, hauling a Class 1 passenger service etc. I'm yet to find a clear answer as to what these "issues" were on Sunday night (although I have an idea) and whether they really would've prevented it taking a train South last night if it had to. Will be interesting to see if it takes 1M11 tonight as due its due its showing as due its B exam in 1 day.

73966 on Aberdeen this morning allegedly. Wouldn't be surprised if it was similar issues - railheads still don't seem to clever north of the border.
 

TimboM

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Is there enough prep time and rest time for the crew to enable the Highlander to leave on time tonight (2115) ?
The northbound Highlander uses the southbound Lowlander stock - and crew I believe - from the previous night, so yes - plenty of time!!

...and as the (very) late Highlander stock/crew won't be needed until the Lowlander at 23:40 (or more accurately the ECS approx. 9pm) they should get sufficient rest in - although the ECS may be a bit delayed depending on the exact hours they need to rest.
 

GW43125

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Fatality at Bletchley. Should be cleared in time for the beds hopefully but may be a wee bit of congestion.
 

38Cto15E

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Do BMS know how CS treat bookings for Transgenders in Standard class cabins, or do they have to book a seat? Just asking.
 

Kite159

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Do BMS know how CS treat bookings for Transgenders in Standard class cabins, or do they have to book a seat? Just asking.

The policy recently changed so you can no longer share a berth with a stranger, if you are a solo traveller the only cabins available are the solo (1st class) ones. Similar to the GWR policy on the sleeper
 

LeylandLen

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Person hit by train near MK about 1700 .Looks like 1P21 Euston Blackpool . So Euston is full, no where yet for ECS for Highlander to go.Platforms 1 and 15 occupied by delayed trains.
 

ScottDarg

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Person hit by train near MK about 1700 .Looks like 1P21 Euston Blackpool . So Euston is full, no where yet for ECS for Highlander to go.Platforms 1 and 15 occupied by delayed trains.

1 is still occupied by 1H07 Euston - Manchester Piccadilly, departure not expected until 20:00.

15 has been vacated though there's a few late running services in front of the Highlander that could take it first.
 

Lrd

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Person hit by train near MK about 1700 .Looks like 1P21 Euston Blackpool . So Euston is full, no where yet for ECS for Highlander to go.Platforms 1 and 15 occupied by delayed trains.
Things are moving now so the ECS should be able to come in and depart pretty much right time
 

AY1975

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The policy recently changed so you can no longer share a berth with a stranger, if you are a solo traveller the only cabins available are the solo (1st class) ones. Similar to the GWR policy on the sleeper

AFAIK that change of policy isn't due to take effect until 25th February 2018. For all dates up until and including the night of 23rd-24th February Standard Class passengers can still share with a stranger of the same sex. I've just done a "dummy" booking for 29th November, and the old regime is certainly still in force at the moment.
 

MadCommuter

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I wonder if any 4 (plus splits) trains are analysed in so much depth anywhere else in the world! Keep it everyone, an enjoyable read, albeit at the potential expense of the passengers.

Also some plaudits to CS for their efforts in keeping the sleepers running against some difficulties. There appears to be a lot of thought gone in every time there's an incident.
 

Kite159

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AFAIK that change of policy isn't due to take effect until 25th February 2018. For all dates up until and including the night of 23rd-24th February Standard Class passengers can still share with a stranger of the same sex. I've just done a "dummy" booking for 29th November, and the old regime is certainly still in force at the moment.

Fair enough, I was under the impression it was for any new bookings made after the date it was introduced
 

Peter Mugridge

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What is the standard procedure for the CS, do they knock on the cabins and tell people, or leave them to wake up at Carlisle when they are expecting to be at Rugby?

Last time I used the Sleeper - in September - I was asked upon boarding if I wanted to be alerted if there were any serious delays, so I suspect the policy is only to wake everyone up if they are going to turf them all off the train.
 

swaldman

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Do BMS know how CS treat bookings for Transgenders in Standard class cabins, or do they have to book a seat? Just asking.

I can't think of any reason for which CS would even *know* if a booking was by a transgender person. Or, TBH, why that person's cabinmate would know either.
 

BRX

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Was just discussing with my sister who was on the heavily delayed service last night. She said they were asked on boarding (at which point, it was already known that there might be problems) whether they'd like to be woken up in the case of delays (she said no). Whether that means that people who said they would like to be notified, might have been given the option to bail out at Edinburgh and get the first VTEC service I don't know.
Apparently folk were offered a free breakfast in the morning. I think she quite enjoyed the lie-in, even though she arrived very late for a work appointment. Had everyone been thrown out at Edinburgh in the middle of the night I reckon she'd be significantly less positive in her impression of the sleeper service. It doesn't seem that the experience has put her off giving it another go in the future.
 

bb21

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Was just discussing with my sister who was on the heavily delayed service last night. She said they were asked on boarding (at which point, it was already known that there might be problems) whether they'd like to be woken up in the case of delays (she said no). Whether that means that people who said they would like to be notified, might have been given the option to bail out at Edinburgh and get the first VTEC service I don't know.
Apparently folk were offered a free breakfast in the morning. I think she quite enjoyed the lie-in, even though she arrived very late for a work appointment. Had everyone been thrown out at Edinburgh in the middle of the night I reckon she'd be significantly less positive in her impression of the sleeper service. It doesn't seem that the experience has put her off giving it another go in the future.
Most people are actually surprisingly understanding of one-off disruptions. People do understand that things go wrong from time to time. It is often either frustrated commuters and, in my experience, families, who tend to be quite vocal. There is a minority of passengers who always complain loudly for whatever reason at the slightest disruption, but that is a rather small number.

It is how you deal with the aftermath that can leave passengers with an impression on the company.
 

BRX

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I forgot to say: one thing she did complain about was that on both recent occasions of using the sleeper, the bedding has caused some kind of skin irritation. I've got a feeling this has been mentioned by others on here?
 

BRX

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Most people are actually surprisingly understanding of one-off disruptions. People do understand that things go wrong from time to time. It is often either frustrated commuters and, in my experience, families, who tend to be quite vocal. There is a minority of passengers who always complain loudly for whatever reason at the slightest disruption, but that is a rather small number.

It is how you deal with the aftermath that can leave passengers with an impression on the company.

Yup.

She also mentioned that a recent Ryanair flight provided them with an 8hr delay and lost bags. An acknowledgement that it's not just on the rails that things sometimes go wrong.
 

47271

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I forgot to say: one thing she did complain about was that on both recent occasions of using the sleeper, the bedding has caused some kind of skin irritation. I've got a feeling this has been mentioned by others on here?
When Serco took over first they introduced a very fine cotton material for duvet covers and pillowcases. This was changed for a much rougher, and presumably harder wearing, replacement around a year ago. I've only experienced it a couple of times myself, but I understand that it isn't popular. I haven't heard of skin irritation though, just mild irritation of passengers!
 
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