Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[Bletchleyite]

By my reading it is *only* Club passengers who get lounge access. Which is a bit rubbish, really.

 

[mark-h]

By mixing First and Standard they could position the premium compartments in the centre of the carriage to give a quieter ride.

 

[TimboM]

By mixing First and Standard they could position the premium compartments in the centre of the carriage to give a quieter ride.

I would hope with all this money they're spending that anywhere in the coach will be acceptably quiet/smooth - or at least significantly more so than the old stock.

 

[TimboM]

By my reading it is *only* Club passengers who get lounge access. Which is a bit rubbish, really.

It did sound like that, but then in theory isn't that the case now? i.e. First get priority and Standard can only use it if there's space - although it's hardly ever an issue as far as I'm aware.

Question with all the money being spent and the no doubt high prices paid for the Club tickets whether this will be enforced more rigorously, or if the hosts on the train are able to apply common sense as they are now.

 

[Mag_seven]

90047 Southbound through Northampton on 0Z92 @ 11.30. Replacing 90044 perhaps?

 

[TimboM]

90047 Southbound through Northampton on 0Z92 @ 11.30. Replacing 90044 perhaps?

I suspect so. 90044 is overdue an exam - path in for a return move later.

044 went back last Wed for the exam from what I can tell, but came straight back 24 hours later on the Thursday (with 042) without it appeared any exam being done (per TOPS at least) - I think as GBRf needed it for the weekend's Kings X/ECML fun and games and nothing else available.

 

[ainsworth74]

It did sound like that, but then in theory isn't that the case now? i.e. First get priority and Standard can only use it if there's space - although it's hardly ever an issue as far as I'm aware.

The phrasing that they use now:

Access to our Lounge Car is restricted to First Class guests during busy periods.

Source

Phrasing on their new stock website:

Available to those staying in our Club Rooms or Suites, the Club Car features interiors from Edinburgh-based designer Ian Smith.

Source

That sounds like a change in policy to me personally. Now it could just be that the website is about the new stock so they've been a bit inexact and when it comes to actually being in service the existing policy will continue of priority given to Club and Suite passengers. But that's not what it sounds like so far! There is then also, of course, what will happen on the ground. I can see the staff on the train allowing access to the Club Car if it's dead to any berth passengers if for no other reason than an easy life!

 

[GarethC]

Now we've lost the pods and gained the Suites with double beds but have there really been such a significant change to the balance of Ensuite vs non ensuite such that 2/3rds are ensuite?

Does anyone have the numbers of ensuite vs non ensuite berths in each of SLE; SLEP; SLED?

Looking at the pictures and videos of the coaches in Velim for testing there is a difference in the window arrangement arrangements one end. There are six evenly spaced windows and four in pairs similar to the Mk3 arrangement.

Could there be a mix of six 'Club' compartments and four 'classic' per coach. Unless those windows are the pantry and toilets?

 

[Altnabreac]

The phrasing that they use now:



Source

Phrasing on their new stock website:



Source

That sounds like a change in policy to me personally. Now it could just be that the website is about the new stock so they've been a bit inexact and when it comes to actually being in service the existing policy will continue of priority given to Club and Suite passengers. But that's not what it sounds like so far! There is then also, of course, what will happen on the ground. I can see the staff on the train allowing access to the Club Car if it's dead to any berth passengers if for no other reason than an easy life!

I went back to the Franchise agreement again to see if it sheds any light.

There doesn't appear to be anything in it about who can access the new club cars.

There is the following Committed Obligation:

CO 21

The Franchisee shall introduce the ability for all passengers to choose to enjoy catering in their accommodation.

The Franchisee shall introduce a ‘Room Service’ concept to enable all passengers to enjoy food and drink delivered to their accommodation whether it be Cabin, Pod Flatbed or Cradle Seat.

By Introduction of new stock

Seems to me unlikely they will be turning away "Classic" passengers from the Club Car on quiet Wednesdays in February but we shall have to wait and see.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Could there be a mix of six 'Club' compartments and four 'classic' per coach. Unless those windows are the pantry and toilets?

Wouldn't surprise me - it'd be easier operationally to have fewer types of coach - i.e. just sleepers, lounge and seats (3 types) rather than 4 types (Club, Classic, lounge and seats).

That's why it surprises me that TPE haven't gone for a DTFO with wheelchair space/accessible bog and then the other 4 Standard coaches the same. (Or at a maximum 3 types if you had wheelchair spaces in Standard as well). But I think there are 4 types, with only 2 coaches in each 5 coach rake being identical.

 

[ainsworth74]

Seems to me unlikely they will be turning away "Classic" passengers from the Club Car on quiet Wednesdays in February but we shall have to wait and see.

Yes that's my feeling as well. It would seem crackers if it didn't end up being the position that Club and Suites get priority just like First class gets priority now rather than a ban on "Classic" passengers.

 

[TimboM]

90047 Southbound through Northampton on 0Z92 @ 11.30. Replacing 90044 perhaps?

I suspect so. 90044 is overdue an exam - path in for a return move later.

90044 indeed on its way back to Crewe... with a Sleeper 92 in tow. Not ID'd it yet, but my hunch would be 92023. (Update: confirmed as 023)

92044 moved up from the tunnel today too, being replaced by 92032 going the other way. 92044 all set to work 1S25 tonight.

So a bit of shuffling around with the Sleeper locos today.

 

[GarethC]

Wouldn't surprise me - it'd be easier operationally to have fewer types of coach - i.e. just sleepers, lounge and seats (3 types) rather than 4 types (Club, Classic, lounge and seats).

That's why it surprises me that TPE haven't gone for a DTFO with wheelchair space/accessible bog and then the other 4 Standard coaches the same. (Or at a maximum 3 types if you had wheelchair spaces in Standard as well). But I think there are 4 types, with only 2 coaches in each 5 coach rake being identical.

Having looked at a mock booking for Edinburgh next August the diagrams suggest two types of coach:
Six compartments + accessible toilet
Six compartments + two pairs with connecting doors

It could be a club suites + accessible berth coach and a combined club and classic coach?

Though the diagrams are obviously interim as the windows don't line up (they are in the same pattern as now).

 

[TimboM]

Triple Grey 92044 on the northbound Highlander tonight (1S25)

92014 on the northbound Lowlander (1S26)

(Southbound likely to be 92018 on 1M16 Highlander (from Waverley, taking over from 67020 and the 73/9s); 92010 on 1M11 and 90042 on the Carstairs/EDB portion - TBC though.)

 

[Mag_seven]

90044 indeed on its way back to Crewe... with a Sleeper 92 in tow. Not ID'd it yet, but my hunch would be 92023.

92044 moved up from the tunnel today too, being replaced by 92032 going the other way. 92044 all set to work 1S25 tonight.

So a bit of shuffling around with the Sleeper locos today.

And here is 92032 at a sunny Kenny O this afternoon (photo not brilliant as I was expecting her to come through on the through line!)

 

[TimboM]

And here is 92032 at a sunny Kenny O this afternoon (photo not brilliant as I was expecting her to come through on the through line!)

Any pic of a 92 on the Third Rail is worth capturing

 

[Sarahs_Railway]

Good evening everyone. Can anyone shed light on the cancelled movement listed below?

I happened to be heading north along the M6 / M74 at the appropriate hour and was hoping to capture it around Lockerbie but it was never activated then finally cancelled.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C73376/2017/08/31/advanced

 

[najaB]

Good evening everyone. Can anyone shed light on the cancelled movement listed below?

It looks like it's a path in there just in case they need to move stock. It's in the WTT (working timetable) rather than STP (short term plan) and has been cancelled most days.

 

[Sarahs_Railway]

It looks like it's a path in there just in case they need to move stock. It's in the WTT (working timetable) rather than STP (short term plan) and has been cancelled most days.

Thanks NajaB.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Looking at the pictures and videos of the coaches in Velim for testing there is a difference in the window arrangement arrangements one end. There are six evenly spaced windows and four in pairs similar to the Mk3 arrangement.

Could there be a mix of six 'Club' compartments and four 'classic' per coach.

It's that; four classic cabins in two pairs with interconnecting doors available at the side where the windows are close together and six of the new "first class"* type.


*I am not quite sure yet if they are the club version or the suites or a mixture of both.

 

[TimboM]

Good evening everyone. Can anyone shed light on the cancelled movement listed below?

I happened to be heading north along the M6 / M74 at the appropriate hour and was hoping to capture it around Lockerbie but it was never activated then finally cancelled.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C73376/2017/08/31/advanced

Hi Sarah - this is one of the paths that's already in the WTT for the testing of the new Sleeper stock. They run from Polmadie-Kingmoor Up Loop; Kingmoor Up Loop-Lancaster; Lancaster-Polmadie. There's two return trips in most weekdays I believe - one in the daytime; one overnight.

If you look at workings to/from Polmadie on any given (week) day at the moment (e.g. on RTT), you'll also see paths for the stock deliveries from South Tees Dock, plus supporting loco moves to/from Mossend Yard. The paths are quite often Activated and Cancelled (presumably so CS/GBRf don't lose the paths between now and when the stock is available for testing).

The media reports yesterday IIRC were suggesting Nov/Dec for delivery of the first 8-car "unit" (the 5 on test in Velim coming via land/tunnel + 3 more via sea). Testing will commence soon thereafter using these paths (Class 92 and also possibly Class 73/9 hauled one would logically assume).

So I wouldn't hang round at the edge of the M-way waiting for them just yet, as you could be there 3-4 months

 

[BRX]

stock deliveries from South Tees Dock,

Somethings's wrong in the world when it's apparently cheaper/easier to deliver rail vehicles by sea rather than by... rail.

 

[najaB]

Somethings's wrong in the world when it's apparently cheaper/easier to deliver rail vehicles by sea rather than by... rail.

I'm sure you'd love the challenge of finding paths from Spain to Polmadie.

 

[Mag_seven]

1M16 was 39L from Edinburgh this morning - managed to make up time to 28L at Rugby but that is now scuppered as currently on slow line behind 2B14 0739 Bletchley - London Euston so expected into Euston at around 08.35 ish.

 

[TimboM]

1M16 was 39L from Edinburgh this morning - managed to make up time to 28L at Rugby but that is now scuppered as currently on slow line behind 2B14 0739 Bletchley - London Euston so expected into Euston at around 08.35 ish.

Delay stems back to the Fort William portion losing c.30 mins in the Garelochhead / Helensburgh Upper area (not sure why).

Now 60L at Willesden - 100% Delay Repay on the cards. [EDIT: Sneaked in 59L at the last minute - does that keep it down to 50%?!]

 

[TimboM]

I'm sure you'd love the challenge of finding paths from Spain to Polmadie.

I suspect the red-tape of getting safety/gauge clearances etc. for the stock to pass (via rail) through the various countries also adds to the cost/challenge.
Still agree with BRX's sentiment though.

Per RAIL the other day, CAF are responsible for the delivery logistics, so how the stock gets from the factory in Spain to Polmadie is up to them.

 

[BRX]

I'd have thought that gauge clearance issues would be pretty much nonexistent moving UK stock through the continent, given that it automatically has a much smaller loading gauge.

They managed to get the carriages to Velim, and will have to then get those to Calais. So you'd think some of the red tape would have been dealt with anyway.

 

[TimboM]

I'd have thought that gauge clearance issues would be pretty much nonexistent moving UK stock through the continent, given that it automatically has a much smaller loading gauge.

They managed to get the carriages to Velim, and will have to then get those to Calais. So you'd think some of the red tape would have been dealt with anyway.

Fair points, although red-tape is always red-tape even when logically there isn't actually a problem at all...!

I'm also wondering if the first five coming via the tunnel will be 100% by rail, as judging the recent photographs at least some of the Spain->Velim transfer was done via lorry.

 

[gsnedders]

Fair points, although red-tape is always red-tape even when logically there isn't actually a problem at all...!

I'm also wondering if the first five coming via the tunnel will be 100% by rail, as judging the recent photographs at least some of the Spain->Velim transfer was done via lorry.

Is there any standard gauge connection to the CAF plant where they're being built? If not, they certainly aren't coming 100% by rail! Given its location in the Basque country, I'd be doubtful.

 

[dcsprior]

It will be interesting to see how it works. The rationing idea makes me laugh though. I can see someone who's spent a fortune for the "Best room in the house" having a hissy fit because they got halfway through washing their hair and it cut out.

The posher you go the more demanding the clientele as they say.

If you pay £10,000+ to fly with Etihad in their "Residence" you're shower usage is limited to 10 minutes - and the limit is only 5 mins for their other first class passengers, who're paying an awful lot more than anyone on the sleeper will be.

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