Caernarfon to Bangor

[Xenophon PCDGS]

BTW: anyone tell how you could get from Caernarfon to Amlwch by rail? And why anyone would want to?

Like the earlier proposal from Caernarfon to Llandudno, a reversal would be required somewhere, owing to the lack of facing direction chords.

Tourism seems to be the only reason I can think of, which was the sole raison d'etre for my Caernarfon to Red Wharf Bay fanciful suggestion, to which I did add the rider of "Finance carefully forgotten".

With some thread discussions, whilst some like mine are obviously made somewhat in jest, there are times when the following rider should be compulsorily added to other types of discussion postings..
"Do not ask for reality, as a refusal often offends"..:roll:

 

[Gareth Marston]

Certainly I will clap if that decision actually happens.

The A465 seems perfectly fine to drive on as it is the only time I have see it really congested is when there has been serious trouble on the M4 at the Brynglas tunnels

Rumours abound that the Clydach Gorge section is already running considerably over budget and more pleas of difficult geology are coming from the contractors. It's in danger of becoming a black hole, and the green light for the South Wales metro effectively means that its been accepted that attempts to regenerate the valleys by past means have been a failure and its now accepted they are a dormitory for the Cardiff City region. The reason for the road as a regenerative tool has been superseded.

 

[Rhydgaled]

BTW: anyone tell how you could get from Caernarfon to Amlwch by rail? And why anyone would want to?

Reverse at Bangor. Just seems to me a neat way of keeping a fleet of units for local services if the the Amlwch branch was also reopened. It wouldn't really need to be a through service, just a potential interworking of diagrams perhaps.

Similarly, the suggestion of a through service to Llandudno was simply combining the Caernarfon train with an idea for a Llandudno - Bangor/Holyhead stopper to speed up the current Holyhead trains.

 

[swcovas]

The now long-closed railway line to Red Wharf Bay branched off the Anglesey Central Railway at Holland Arms. In my days at Manchester University in the 1960's, a group of us traced this route as best we could. We could never understand why there was never a terminal railway station constructed at Benllech, instead of that one which was constructed at Red Wharf Bay which closed in 1930.

The line only built in 1909, a bit late to say the least. The correct name of the station was Benllech-Red Wharf Bay and I gather that it was an attempt to keep costs down by building a station between the two which would supposedly serve both places.....and in so doing served neither of them satisfactorily! By the 20s buses were already running hourly to Bangor so it really was a no-hoper.

 

[JohnB57]

The line only built in 1909, a bit late to say the least. The correct name of the station was Benllech-Red Wharf Bay...

T'other way round. It was Red Wharf Bay and Benllech.

On another pedantic point, Menai Bridge station wasn't in the town of Menai Bridge, which is the other side of the strait on Anglesey. It did, of course, serve both the town and the area of the mainland around the bridge itself.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Rumours abound that the Clydach Gorge section is already running considerably over budget and more pleas of difficult geology are coming from the contractors. It's in danger of becoming a black hole, and the green light for the South Wales metro effectively means that its been accepted that attempts to regenerate the valleys by past means have been a failure and its now accepted they are a dormitory for the Cardiff City region. The reason for the road as a regenerative tool has been superseded.

I agree entirely. I cannot remember who it was but someone did point out that roads only serve to make an area easier to serve remotely.

Some of us, working within the old Cardiff Valleys Division of BR, were well aware of the industrial decline, of the valleys, as far back as the early Sixties. We were looking ahead to see how it would be possible to make life easier for those who would need to travel to work, in the coming years.

It had become apparent that the Rh & SB would close below Blaengwynfi because everyone was hell bent on road ‘improvements’ in Port Talbot. This was duly done and a new spur put in to divert traffic through Maesteg.

To take advantage of this, we devised a scheme for a ‘Grand Circular Service’. It was simple and, more importantly, ‘doable’ without any new track or signaling. The proposal was for an hourly service, in both directions, between Treherbert and Treherbert. This would run from Treherbert to Cymmer Afan – Maesteg – Bridgend – The Vale of Glamorgan – Barry – Cardiff – Pontypridd and on to Treherbert. The beauty of such a service was that it would have given much improved, and regular interval services for the Afan Valley – Llynfi Valley and Vale of Glamorgan lines, all of which had patchy and irregular services. After Fifty years or so my memory tells me that all of that could have been achieved for less cost than the services which would have been replaced.

After all this time, I still think that it was a lost opportunity.

 

[swcovas]

T'other way round. It was Red Wharf Bay and Benllech.

Quite true.....I stand corrected!

 

[Gareth Marston]

I agree entirely. I cannot remember who it was but someone did point out that roads only serve to make an area easier to serve remotely.

Some of us, working within the old Cardiff Valleys Division of BR, were well aware of the industrial decline, of the valleys, as far back as the early Sixties. We were looking ahead to see how it would be possible to make life easier for those who would need to travel to work, in the coming years.

It had become apparent that the Rh & SB would close below Blaengwynfi because everyone was hell bent on road ‘improvements’ in Port Talbot. This was duly done and a new spur put in to divert traffic through Maesteg.

To take advantage of this, we devised a scheme for a ‘Grand Circular Service’. It was simple and, more importantly, ‘doable’ without any new track or signaling. The proposal was for an hourly service, in both directions, between Treherbert and Treherbert. This would run from Treherbert to Cymmer Afan – Maesteg – Bridgend – The Vale of Glamorgan – Barry – Cardiff – Pontypridd and on to Treherbert. The beauty of such a service was that it would have given much improved, and regular interval services for the Afan Valley – Llynfi Valley and Vale of Glamorgan lines, all of which had patchy and irregular services. After Fifty years or so my memory tells me that all of that could have been achieved for less cost than the services which would have been replaced.

After all this time, I still think that it was a lost opportunity.

I've heard of countless schemes like this that were never gone ahead with. I'm sure the intention was to keep the freight lines until the industry died out and then the thinking of the day was that the inhabitants would relocate, instead we've spent close on 50 years throwing money at regeneration schemes including countless road schemes that haven't magically transformed the areas as hoped for.Still we're digressing on this thread!

The WHR/FR are looking ahead to how their customers access them in the re opening proposal as you can't assume they'll all drive like today.

 

[anthony263]

Pity the Rhondda tunnel is in a bad way and the trackbed down to Port Talbt is no longer in that a service from Treherbert to Swansea would be interesting especially passing the scenery.

That circular service idea does sound interesting although you would have issue's these days with Network rail pointing out the problems with the track layout at Bridgend

 

[Tiny Tim]

Out of curiosity what looser standards are these?

Heritage railways are restricted to 25mph and consequently do not have to install mainline standard signalling on the track or locos. The track itself doesn't need to be built or maintained to the standard required by NR. Altogether this saves vast amounts of money on both construction and maintenance.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Heritage railways are restricted to 25mph and consequently do not have to install mainline standard signalling on the track or locos. The track itself doesn't need to be built or maintained to the standard required by NR. Altogether this saves vast amounts of money on both construction and maintenance.

That depends on the particular railway. Anyone who sees the amount of work that goes into maintaining the Ffestiniog Railway will be quickly cured of any idea that lower standards can be applied.

 

[krus_aragon]

The now long-closed railway line to Red Wharf Bay branched off the Anglesey Central Railway at Holland Arms. In my days at Manchester University in the 1960's, a group of us traced this route as best we could. We could never understand why there was never a terminal railway station constructed at Benllech, instead of that one which was constructed at Red Wharf Bay which closed in 1930.

Going off the top of my head (I'm not at home to consult my books), R G Rear describes the LNWR's thinking. At first they targeted Red Wharf Bay, then they decided to move the terminus to Benllech, and finally settled on a compromise station that served neither place particularly well. (Recall that this branch was built on the cheap: a light railway throughout, and one of the LNWR's first use of railmotors. Two stations was never on the books.) I don't know if this was being greedy in extending the catchment of the terminus, or whether they ere trying to make the numbers add up in favour of building the branch in the first place.

When the motorcar and bus surfaced a few decades later, the poor siting of the largest station on the branch was its death knell.

 

[IKBrunel]

That depends on the particular railway. Anyone who sees the amount of work that goes into maintaining the Ffestiniog Railway will be quickly cured of any idea that lower standards can be applied.

I don't think Tiny Tim or myself were trying to talk down the impressive and collosal effort FR and WHR have put into building and maintaining the lines. Sorry if it came across that way

but on a purely technical level, if you're running at 25mph you don't need the same precision you need to run at 125mph. For example the FR/WHR doesn't have the cost of operating a custom built new measurement train with laser measurements of track, ballast, gauge clearance, etc.

FR/WHR have had to operate on very limited funds and therefore be a bit creative with resourcing, for example I understand much of the FR track/sleepers is recycled from various dismantled lines in industrial operations & elsewhere.

 

[SWTH]

I think it's rather an unfair comparison. Compare the FR/WHR permenant way with a Network Rail equivalent (Conwy Valley line for example), though off the top of my head no NR equivalent I can think of has such complex signalling (of course someone more knowledgable than I will now point out several examples.... ).

If the F&WHR were asked to build a 597mm gauge equivalent of the WCML, then the precision and standards required would be the same as NR's standards.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

the FR/WHR doesn't have the cost of operating a custom built new measurement train with laser measurements of track, ballast, gauge clearance, etc.

FR/WHR have had to operate on very limited funds and therefore be a bit creative with resourcing, for example I understand much of the FR track/sleepers is recycled from various dismantled lines in industrial operations & elsewhere.

The track on the railway is tamped and aligned by a laser guided machine. I don't think that you will find much material salvaged from industrial sites on the FfR main line and the WHR is almost exclusively made up of brand new material.

 

[pablo]

Quote - "... and the WHR is almost exclusively made up of brand new material."

Didn't some of it come from Sarf Africar s/h?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is Australian Jarrah wood still imported for use as railway sleepers ?

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Quote - "... and the WHR is almost exclusively made up of brand new material."

Didn't some of it come from Sarf Africar s/h?

Yes it did but not from industrial sites. The steel sleepers and fixings were all brand new, as I recall, manufactured in India.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Yes it did but not from industrial sites. The steel sleepers and fixings were all brand new, as I recall, manufactured in India.

Sure are I can remember auditing the letters of credit for them.

 

[Mvann]

The track in the Dinas Caernarfon section was from South Africa. The rest was new. I also remember, when I was a volunteer there, that there was some channel tunnel track and sleepers, but it was used for something else. I'd have to see if I've still got any whrs magazines that mention it.