c2c more stock

[hwl]

Sounds like 377/7 is the only realistic option lets hope GTR have some other suitable stock to substitute rather than short forming Southern services as that wouldn't be good for their reputation. Any souther rolling stock substitute plan is going to be complicated...

Given the similarity between 377/7 and 387s and the potential Porterbrook order for 20x 4 car 387 and options for 20 more would this be an indication of the direction in which C2C are heading for their new stock?
357 software should be updatable to work with newer electrostars to certain extent.

It also gets C2C passengers used to a high capacity (narrow seat, wide aisle) 2+2 units.

 

[physics34]

I was wondering when the next time that you suggest strippong down a unit would be
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As far as I am aware, Electrostars built after 2009 (excluding Class 378?) are not compatible with Electrostars built before 2009. But as you say, it makes training a lot more straightforward.

377/1s are compatable with 377/6s and 7s for example.

Software was an issue though

 

[rebmcr]

Presumably this would mean that 3× 4+4 diagrams become 1× 5+5 + 2× 4+4+4 ?

 

[Pyromaniac]

Presumably this would mean that 3× 4+4 diagrams become 1× 5+5 + 2× 4+4+4 ?

I suspect more likely the other 4 car units would strengthen the busiest 4 car services out of Fenchurch Street in the evening - 1631 comes to mind!

 

[Mikey C]

Why would they want 5 car units when all their existing stock are 4 car units?

 

[87015]

Why would they want 5 car units when all their existing stock are 4 car units?

beggars can't be choosers and not much available when you are on a complete knee jerk!!

 

[chris11256]

exactly. c2c can't be picky and have taken whatever is available.

 

[D365]

Surely, if 2x4-car is suitable, a few 321s or 319s could be hired in?

But that shouldn't be a concern if c2c have made this preliminary agreement.

 

[GatwickDepress]

Surely Electrostars would be preferable for maintenance as the base kit of 377s can't be that different from the 357s, surely? They're the same family after all, right... r-right?

 

[southern442]

All I can think off is the 360's on Heathrow Connect as 442s are 3rd rail.

Please tell me that was a joke?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Surely, if 2x4-car is suitable, a few 321s or 319s could be hired in?

But that shouldn't be a concern if c2c have made this preliminary agreement.

Wouldn't that mean their drivers and fitters having to do a full traction course, just for a couple of units?

 

[D365]

Wouldn't that mean their drivers and fitters having to do a full traction course, just for a couple of units?

c2c have in the past hired 321s in from Silverlink, which is why I made the suggestion. Maintenance could be sub-contacted to Ilford if necessary.

 

[87015]

Wouldn't that mean their drivers and fitters having to do a full traction course, just for a couple of units?

They will be doing it for the 360s, although maintenance may well be done at Ilford by Siemens. It has to be something compatible with the c2c DOO method of working which rules out anything involving cameras.

 

[Paul_W]

A c2c spokesman said on BBC Essex this evening that the leased trains would would be brand new trains, to arrive in Spring. Nithing was mentioned abiut the length of the trains. Could they be 387/2s currently destined for Gatwick Express? There was a quote here earlier that mentioned an Airport connection.

 

[Class 170101]

c2c have in the past hired 321s in from Silverlink, which is why I made the suggestion. Maintenance could be sub-contacted to Ilford if necessary.

Ilford is about to under go major developments as part of the Crossrail project - it won't have room for anymore trains.
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Good job as badly needed, though we can add it to Southern, SWT, Thameslink, London Overground and First Great Western when it comes to TOCs serving London that have very recently received additional stock or have confirmed plans. Southeastern passengers meanwhile twiddle their thumbs.

How about c2c concentrating on sorting out their timetable rather than looking for new trains?

The line isn't the worst for crowding by any means.
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Sounds like 377/7 is the only realistic option lets hope GTR have some other suitable stock to substitute rather than short forming Southern services as that wouldn't be good for their reputation. Any souther rolling stock substitute plan is going to be complicated...

319s hanging on for a little longer on the Brighton Mainline until the Class 700s start to enter service perhaps?

 

[chris11256]

A c2c spokesman said on BBC Essex this evening that the leased trains would would be brand new trains, to arrive in Spring. Nithing was mentioned abiut the length of the trains. Could they be 387/2s currently destined for Gatwick Express? There was a quote here earlier that mentioned an Airport connection.

At the passenger panel last night we were told that Two 5 carriage unit would be leased. They couldn't say where from, but gave a hint of an airport connection.

 

[fgwrich]

At the passenger panel last night we were told that Two 5 carriage unit would be leased. They couldn't say where from, but gave a hint of an airport connection.

Well, that to me makes it more plausible that it's Gat Ex 387s then!

 

[D365]

Aside from the mention of 5 carriage units...

 

[87015]

Well, that to me makes it more plausible that it's Gat Ex 387s then!

ITS 360s!!!!

 

[andyb2706]

Well, that to me makes it more plausible that it's Gat Ex 387s then!

The Class 387/2 is only 4 carriages. Like I said earlier I think it is probably 377/6 or 377/7 because both of these probably call at Gatwick Airport and are 5 carriages and seeing they are part of the Electrostar family like c2c Class 357 there may be little conversion for the drivers so they can be introduced quickly.

 

[Dave1987]

ITS 360s!!!!

But C2C drivers don't sign 360's!

 

[Hophead]

But C2C drivers don't sign 360's!

And switching the units from Heathrow Connect would mean a 20% reduction in capacity on what are, during peak hours, very busy services (assuming they were replaced by 387s). That would keep the PR folk busy.

 

[43096]

And switching the units from Heathrow Connect would mean a 20% reduction in capacity on what are, during peak hours, very busy services (assuming they were replaced by 387s). That would keep the PR folk busy.

Unless they use a pair of 387s....

 

[D365]

Unless they use a pair of 387s....

Presumably that would mean GWR taking over the Heathrow Connect paths to run extended Hayes & Harlington trains?

 

[swt_passenger]

Presumably that would mean GWR taking over the Heathrow Connect paths to run extended Hayes & Harlington trains?

They can't run any other stock into Heathrow as it would need GW ATP fitting which is obsolete.

 

[D365]

They can't run any other stock into Heathrow as it would need GW ATP fitting which is obsolete.

How are the new/future EMUs on the mainline going to get by until resignalling works are complete?

 

[swt_passenger]

How are the new/future EMUs on the mainline going to get by until resignalling works are complete?

The mainline has normal TPWS, so EMUS such as 387 will be fine there.

The Heathrow Branch only has GW ATP and does not have TPWS. A new different system is being temporarily fitted in time for Crossrail to run on the Heathrow Branch in 2017. That will then be replaced by ETCS.

I did try and explain this earlier in the thread.

 

[D365]

Apologies for going OT, but is GW ATP a leftover from the installation under British Rail? I was under the impression that it is mandatory for all rolling stock on the line.

 

[Domh245]

The mainline has normal TPWS, so EMUS such as 387 will be fine there.

The Heathrow Branch only has GW ATP and does not have TPWS. A new different system is being temporarily fitted in time for Crossrail to run on the Heathrow Branch in 2017. That will then be replaced by ETCS.

I did try and explain this earlier in the thread.

Perhaps a shuttle service from would be more appropriate for services to Heathrow? My impression is that the Heathrow Connect services are more of a service for the GWML stations to Paddington than for GWML stations to Heathrow. Although I imagine Heathrow airport holdings won't be best pleased if that were the case

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Would it be worth them installing TPWS on the Heathrow branch?