BusTimes.Org

[Tom]

I often wether subscription options, say £3 or £5 a month would bring in more revenue than ads?

No, because you annihilate your user base on the way.

The number of people willing to pay for subscriptions in this day and age is fairly small compared to the user base that public transport information sites attract. The vast majority of users are not power users - and aren't willing to pay for the one off usage that they will do.

 

[Sealink]

I believe that companies such as Netflix make far more money from lower subscriptions with ads than the full charge with no ads. But I am taking this off topic.
Anyway, well done to bustimes.org, I have found it to be absolutely brilliant.

 

[ricoblade]

Wow - I'm a regular (and very grateful) user of bustimes.org and have never noticed any ads. I just went to look and it's a very unobtrusive box at the bottom of the screen, long may it continue to be like that.

 

[M60lad]

Not to sure why but despite being part of the same company now, nothing has tracked for some reason from Stagecoach's Preston Depot, yet vehicles from other Stagecoach Cumbria Depots have tracked normally today.

 

[Sealink]

Wow - I'm a regular (and very grateful) user of bustimes.org and have never noticed any ads. I just went to look and it's a very unobtrusive box at the bottom of the screen, long may it continue to be like that.

I sometimes get a very small ad at the bottom of the page. Like this one for National Express.

 

[DelW]

A copy of a post I made on the Realtime Trains thread:

Having done some fairly extensive travels around England and Wales on public transport over the last fortnight, I'd just like to record a vote of thanks to Tom and his team for RTT, and also to its author/owner for bustimes.org.

It's remarkable just how much easier those two sites make travelling by public transport in unfamiliar areas, and also how much better they work than most of the 'official' sources.

 

[joieman]

I've noticed that Bustimes has a new feature where fleet lists can be viewed in a calendar mode, showing which days buses have been tracking for the past two weeks. Does anyone else have anything to say about it?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I've noticed that Bustimes has a new feature where fleet lists can be viewed in a calendar mode, showing which days buses have been tracking for the past two weeks. Does anyone else have anything to say about it?

I can't think of anything more to say than "oh that's cool".
It also makes it easy to see visually how much the vehicle count is reduced on a Sunday.

 

[SCH117X]

Its still however where the ticket machine has been (or in some cases where two duplicated id ticket machines) have been rather than necessarily the vehicle in question.

 

[jon0844]

No, because you annihilate your user base on the way.

The number of people willing to pay for subscriptions in this day and age is fairly small compared to the user base that public transport information sites attract. The vast majority of users are not power users - and aren't willing to pay for the one off usage that they will do.

The easiest thing to do is offer an ad-free version for a monthly or annual fee, which would have to be low enough that people wouldn't be concerned about paying, say £2-5 a year. I have no idea if that would cover the 'loss' in not showing ads to that user though.

I have a number of apps where I pay small fees annually on the Play Store and when it's so low, I really don't care (I think one app charges me £1 a year to remove the ads!). I do realise that it all adds up, but some apps do have ads that frustrate and you need to remove the ads, especially those with an ad that takes focus and needs to be closed. Bustimes isn't one of them though.

Going down the route of limiting features without a sub can ruin the experience and have people stop using it entirely. Too many developers seem to like this option, and it's risky. Some may like an app and pay for the features they're missing, others will find the app too limited and will not be willing to pay (so uninstall it).

I realise bustimes is not an app, but my point still stands. As you say, people aren't going to pay for one-off usage, or something they don't use all the time.

 

[Tom]

I think there's a balance to be had when it comes to ad-free. You either charge for ad-free and try and offset that against the loss of opportunity cost that ads can bring - bustimes does fairly well looking at Prebid inspector so if there was a want to properly offset the ad income it would probably not be that cheap if you biased it towards the power users. (Having said that power users in my experience tend to have lower revenue per 1000 impressions.)

We decided to just go down the route of going ad-free & more features without removing stuff from the core product which I think is the best balance you can go in a niche like this.

 

[jon0844]

Agreed.

 

[takno]

I think there's a balance to be had when it comes to ad-free. You either charge for ad-free and try and offset that against the loss of opportunity cost that ads can bring - bustimes does fairly well looking at Prebid inspector so if there was a want to properly offset the ad income it would probably not be that cheap if you biased it towards the power users. (Having said that power users in my experience tend to have lower revenue per 1000 impressions.)

We decided to just go down the route of going ad-free & more features without removing stuff from the core product which I think is the best balance you can go in a niche like this.

I tend to agree. I'd say the vast majority of pageviews are going to be from users who aren't engaged enough to subscribe (or even sign up to completely honest). Even the more engaged users will often start as more casual users. If you make a site subscription-only, or hide most of the functionality, those users will disappear and you will never get new subscribers.

Advertising provides a way for casual or undecided users to pay their way. I wish the internet was structured differently and there was some kind of micropayments model, but it isn't and advertising is where we've ended up.

In terms of clicking on ads, even Adsense doesn't seem to run anything on pay-per-click anymore. People are quite jaded now and will no longer get curious about a single ad they see. Modern ads are more about showing you ads across different sites and channels until it gets into your head. They can probably still track you Googling them a few hours later, so they can prove that the advertisig works.

I'm a huge fan of bustimes. The amount of raw open data we have about buses in England and Wales is really good, but the data is really raw. Their ability to turn it into a useful product which basically just works across most of the country is impressive. You can often do something a bit better for a particular local area based on particular knowledge about local companies, but having a basic go-to product which you can use anywhere is excellent.

 

[class17]

A copy of a post I made on the Realtime Trains thread:

Having done some fairly extensive travels around England and Wales on public transport over the last fortnight, I'd just like to record a vote of thanks to Tom and his team for RTT, and also to its author/owner for bustimes.org.

It's remarkable just how much easier those two sites make travelling by public transport in unfamiliar areas, and also how much better they work than most of the 'official' sources.

I would absolutely agree with those comments regarding bustimes.org website. An invaluable resource, especially when busses are less frequent and held up in traffic/delayed or not running. I appreciate running but not tracking is a separate issue.

Not having to go early or hang around bus stops in the rain or cold is well worth a contribution to they person in charge. Many thanks to the person involved.

 

[jon0844]

I've just had to use Bustimes to get the number plate of a bus that failed to stop for me, and Arriva has told me the bus was going in the opposite direction to somewhere else and apologising if it wasn't what I wanted to hear!

Well, quite, I didn't want to hear it. They're suggesting I was in the wrong and hailed the wrong bus somehow, but with the tracking info and reg from bustimes I've been able to go back and point out they need to ask the driver of the bus I was hailing why they didn't stop. Not that they've replied to this yet...

 

[Dai Corner]

I've just had to use Bustimes to get the number plate of a bus that failed to stop for me, and Arriva has told me the bus was going in the opposite direction to somewhere else and apologising if it wasn't what I wanted to hear!

Well, quite, I didn't want to hear it. They're suggesting I was in the wrong and hailed the wrong bus somehow, but with the tracking info and reg from bustimes I've been able to go back and point out they need to ask the driver of the bus I was hailing why they didn't stop. Not that they've replied to this yet...

Remember they say "Ticket machines IDs sometimes don’t correspond with the actual vehicles they’re attached to. (Equipment gets swapped between vehicles, etc.)" and it's ticket machines which they track.

 

[jon0844]

I got the last three letters and it matched what bustimes said, so I was able to identify the right bus but they're telling me it was another bus.

They want to dismiss my complaint so easiest way is to imply I was mistaken or am lying.

 

[Ballyheigue]

One thing I've noticed for the Irish Republic is that not all bus services are listed on the bus times website. I think it's some of the local link services that aren't listed, even though they run as normal public buses. Take the R22 which runs once a day each way 6 days a week from Ballyheigue to Tralee via Kerry Head and Ardfert, that's not listed but the 274 from Tarbert to Tralee via Ballyheigue and Ardfert operated by Local Link running 3 times a day each way is listed. I've a funny feeling it may be the routes which go off route on a demand responsive basis as the R22 does have this facility, but it's still strange.

 

[markymark2000]

One thing I've noticed for the Irish Republic is that not all bus services are listed on the bus times website. I think it's some of the local link services that aren't listed, even though they run as normal public buses. Take the R22 which runs once a day each way 6 days a week from Ballyheigue to Tralee via Kerry Head and Ardfert, that's not listed but the 274 from Tarbert to Tralee via Ballyheigue and Ardfert operated by Local Link running 3 times a day each way is listed. I've a funny feeling it may be the routes which go off route on a demand responsive basis as the R22 does have this facility, but it's still strange.

The timetable data for Ireland is an absolute mess. The data in bustimes though matches what is in Transport for Irelands website/journey planner and so any issues are affecting the wider TFI site. TFI has been made aware of faults literally loads of times and the specific team who are meant to deal with the issues, ignore 99.9% of emails, and if you go through customer services they refuse to have anything to do with it or log anything officially. There is apparently no complaints procedure or any way to more formally log any enquiry or complaint about TFI showing incorrect journey planning information. It's a shambolic organisation.

 

[PeterC]

Remember they say "Ticket machines IDs sometimes don’t correspond with the actual vehicles they’re attached to. (Equipment gets swapped between vehicles, etc.)" and it's ticket machines which they track.

Indeed, I have seen what is supposedly the same bus tracking in two different towns.

 

[berneyarms]

One thing I've noticed for the Irish Republic is that not all bus services are listed on the bus times website. I think it's some of the local link services that aren't listed, even though they run as normal public buses. Take the R22 which runs once a day each way 6 days a week from Ballyheigue to Tralee via Kerry Head and Ardfert, that's not listed but the 274 from Tarbert to Tralee via Ballyheigue and Ardfert operated by Local Link running 3 times a day each way is listed. I've a funny feeling it may be the routes which go off route on a demand responsive basis as the R22 does have this facility, but it's still strange.

DRT routes, which the R22 is one of, are not shown on the NTA national journey planner as the buses can and do go off-route, and most require booking in advance.

Timetables for such routes are available on the relevant Local Link website or at www.locallink.ie (door-to-door routes).

The journey planner does show all of the regular rural services operated by Local Link.

The timetable data for Ireland is an absolute mess. The data in bustimes though matches what is in Transport for Irelands website/journey planner and so any issues are affecting the wider TFI site. TFI has been made aware of faults literally loads of times and the specific team who are meant to deal with the issues, ignore 99.9% of emails, and if you go through customer services they refuse to have anything to do with it or log anything officially. There is apparently no complaints procedure or any way to more formally log any enquiry or complaint about TFI showing incorrect journey planning information. It's a shambolic organisation.

I’d be interested to know what some of the errors are?

By and large all of the PSO services are uploaded correctly I find.

 

[markymark2000]

I’d be interested to know what some of the errors are?

By and large all of the PSO services are uploaded correctly I find.

Shed loads of routes have inaccurate timetables and/or missing stops (where stop codes already exist and the bus passes them, they are just missing the stop. I know that Ireland runs largely on hail and ride), or showing as serving the wrong stop.
Bus Éireann 30 for stops within Northern Ireland is using Ireland stop codes rather than the pre-existing Northern Ireland stop codes (some routes they do show as using the NI stop codes so they do clearly use NI stop codes, just not in this instance which makes things rather messy at times). It's not just the 30 but it's one example.
John McGinley has 2 routes showing which don't exist (the A routes) and the remaining 932/933 are full of issues with missing stops, showing stops that aren't served, timetable errors etc etc.
Aircoach 705x still shows as serving Europa Bus Centre in Belfast (data comes from TFI for this cross border service), it hasn't stopped there in ages, it serves Grand Central and the timetable has quite a few errors on it.
Etc etc. That's just a few examples, as you could be here a while listing it all.

 

[Tim33160]

I've noticed that Bustimes has a new feature where fleet lists can be viewed in a calendar mode, showing which days buses have been tracking for the past two weeks. Does anyone else have anything to say about it?

Not everywhere: nothing for Bee Network operators
Stagecoach https://bustimes.org/operators/bee-network-bnsm/vehicles
Diamond Bus https://bustimes.org/operators/bee-network-bndb/vehicles
Go North west https://bustimes.org/operators/bee-network-bngn/vehicles
Metroline https://bustimes.org/operators/bee-network-2/vehicles
First https://bustimes.org/operators/bee-network/vehicles

 

[Dai Corner]

I've noticed that Bustimes has a new feature where fleet lists can be viewed in a calendar mode, showing which days buses have been tracking for the past two weeks. Does anyone else have anything to say about it?

I'm pretty sure the calendar view for my local operator Newport Transport was working when I looked yesterday but it's not there today.

 

[BuhSnarf]

I note that the Arriva Midlands fleet list that was posted above now doesn't have a calendar view when I've just checked. So, possibly ironing out some bugs with the new view and so they've removed it - or A/B testing.

 

[Highland050261]

I note that the Arriva Midlands fleet list that was posted above now doesn't have a calendar view when I've just checked. So, possibly ironing out some bugs with the new view and so they've removed it - or A/B testing.

Its been stated on the Bustimes Discord that its been removed.

Git Hub Revert due to site speed

BUS-TIMES-DJANGO-BSY revert calendar grid cos too slow · bustimes/bustimes.org@4eb98a5

Every bus stop, route and timetable, using (Geo)Django and things - BUS-TIMES-DJANGO-BSY revert calendar grid cos too slow · bustimes/bustimes.org@4eb98a5

github.com

 

[joieman]

Its been stated on the Bustimes Discord that its been removed.

Git Hub Revert due to site speed

BUS-TIMES-DJANGO-BSY revert calendar grid cos too slow · bustimes/bustimes.org@4eb98a5

Every bus stop, route and timetable, using (Geo)Django and things - BUS-TIMES-DJANGO-BSY revert calendar grid cos too slow · bustimes/bustimes.org@4eb98a5

github.com

Oh well, it was interesting while it lasted!

 

[LUYMun]

I'm not sure if anyone has become aware of this in the past few weeks but Bustimes has seemingly gone international as it now tracks buses in Las Vegas, complete with their numberplate and fleet numbers.


(screenshot of buses in the Regional Transportation Comission of Southern Nevada in the city of Las Vegas)

 

[Goldfish62]

I'm not sure if anyone has become aware of this in the past few weeks but Bustimes has seemingly gone international as it now tracks buses in Las Vegas, complete with their numberplate and fleet numbers.

View attachment 206570
(screenshot of buses in the Regional Transportation Comission of Southern Nevada in the city of Las Vegas)

Wow, so it does!

 

[em81]

Stagecoach Cumbria/Lancashire route 3 Preston to Penwortham has got a strange quirk in it. The full list of stops includes "Penwortham, by Cop Lane School Stop Only". There's no bus stop sign there. My guess is someone put the stop in for a school service, and because the 3 is an "all stops" route it pulls in that stop, so someone added "School Stop Only" as a bodge.

3 - Preston - Penwortham

Stagecoach Cumbria and Lancashire

bustimes.org