BusTimes.Org

[CMBS]

The Passenger/MyTrip data has been manually disabled on Bustimes.

Do we know to why?

 

[Highland050261]

Do we know to why?

All that is known is that the owner has decided to no longer use the API at the moment.

 

[nctd2306]

On the Reading buses page on Bus times.org, routes have begun to "disappear".
What I mean by this is that timetables and vehicle tracking maps seem to no longer exist, even when the vehicles are still shown as operating. Attached are examples of what I mean. So far it seems to be affecting the 4 (but curiously not the 4a), the 14 and the 15. Yesterday it was only the 15.

My question is, is this a Reading Buses issue or a bustimes issue and is it likely to be resolved soon?

 

[SSmith2009]

On the Reading buses page on Bus times.org, routes have begun to "disappear".
What I mean by this is that timetables and vehicle tracking maps seem to no longer exist, even when the vehicles are still shown as operating. Attached are examples of what I mean. So far it seems to be affecting the 4 (but curiously not the 4a), the 14 and the 15. Yesterday it was only the 15.

My question is, is this a Reading Buses issue or a bustimes issue and is it likely to be resolved soon?

their open bus data which feeds bustimes.org shows as being updated yesterday so could be an input error causing it.

 

[ACBest]

their open bus data which feeds bustimes.org shows as being updated yesterday so could be an input error causing it.

There seems to be an issue with BODS at the moment, I’m aware of four other operators all having disappearing route issues at the moment - and there are evidently others out there!

 

[markymark2000]

their open bus data which feeds bustimes.org shows as being updated yesterday so could be an input error causing it.

Data should be back within the next few hours (BODS timetables refreshed at 4pm, bustimes normally updates around 10pm)

 

[Andyh82]

I worry that the current generation of enthusiasts coming up base their entire hobby on BusTimes and it’s all about being first rather than being accurate

For example on another forum there was a question about the fleet of an operator in my area who run numerous deckers on schools and rail replacement. Because they don’t track on BusTimes there is was no response, no interest, no knowledge.

Regularly people think various First buses have been withdrawn because they haven’t tracked for a while despite them being out every day on schools and school services don’t track.

Buses are marked as being moved, repainted or withdrawn based on gossip that it is going to happen, rather than it actually happening.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Regularly people think various First buses have been withdrawn because they haven’t tracked for a while despite them being out every day on schools and school services don’t track.

That's suprising, and must be annoying for the students.
Here in Manchester they do.

 

[nesw]

Some “closed door” unregistered school and company contract services are tracked by other platforms, for example Zeelo and Student Safe. As there’s no published API , these trips will not be on Bustimes or other websites.

 

[riceuten]

I suspect only real enthusiasts stand outside bus depots in the pouring rain with the snorkel anorak and weak lemon drink

 

[WibbleWobble]

That's suprising, and must be annoying for the students.
Here in Manchester they do.

Manchester school services are registered as **usually** they are open to the public. Therefore as they are registered, they have to be on Bus Open Data so track on BusTimes.

In most other areas, they won't track as, because they are procured by the local authority, they don't need to be registered (they are closed door as nesw has said). Given a lot of these routes are in rural areas, these sorts of services often stop right outside a child's house - therefore could be a safeguarding issue.

 

[Dwarfer1979]

Manchester school services are registered as **usually** they are open to the public. Therefore as they are registered, they have to be on Bus Open Data so track on BusTimes.

In most other areas, they won't track as, because they are procured by the local authority, they don't need to be registered (they are closed door as nesw has said). Given a lot of these routes are in rural areas, these sorts of services often stop right outside a child's house - therefore could be a safeguarding issue.

There was a bit of controversy when BODs first came out as there was an attempt to claim all regular public services, including closed door school buses which weren't council contracts (you can run closed door school buses on behalf of schools, parents or commercially which have a slightly different status to direct council contracts) should be shown on BODs. A number of specialist operators raised concerns around student safeguarding by allowing these type of school buses to be publicly tracked - less the dropping off outside the house (they are at least safely home immediately here) but those who are dropped off on remote roadsides and are walking home alone along lonely lanes. I'm not sure where that ended up, we don't run any services like that ourselves and don't tend to deal with such so it isn't something I had to keep track of as discussions went on but I think a pragmatic result did appear in the end.

That's suprising, and must be annoying for the students.
Here in Manchester they do.

Some “closed door” unregistered school and company contract services are tracked by other platforms, for example Zeelo and Student Safe. As there’s no published API , these trips will not be on Bustimes or other websites.

Exactly, these services can often be tracked by users but via 'closed' apps available only to approved students and their parents behind password protection (often these days associated with how the ticket is issued these days) which control what information each person can see and access to only that which is needed.

 

[jon0844]

Is safeguarding considered that big a risk when surely people know when a bus is supposed to run anyway? Wouldn't someone wait for the bus rather than sit at home tracking it?

Compare to the convenience for a parent or guardian to be able to see that the bus exists and where it is, if running late.

 

[Dwarfer1979]

Is safeguarding considered that big a risk when surely people know when a bus is supposed to run anyway? Wouldn't someone wait for the bus rather than sit at home tracking it?

Compare to the convenience for a parent or guardian to be able to see that the bus exists and where it is, if running late.

But in the case of these closed door services, i.e: services that can only be used by certain pre-approved passengers, "people" won't know when the bus is supposed to run as there are no public details of the routes and times of the services. Details of the services, often even their existence, are distributed via schools to new parents to allow them to get details and book tickets. There are hundreds of private works and schools services out there that most people have no idea about as there are no details in the public realm. The parents can find track the bus through dedicated apps with log-ins to allow access to all the information the parent and student need about their specific service.

The concerns are probably slightly over blown, at least by the fact that no one raises such concerns around open door school buses in the same way which would have the same issues but parents often prefer these closed door type services over more open door or regular services due to the perceived safety of their child not having to share the bus with others and it being dedicated to the specific approved students (and if you are hanging around or following school buses around to find out where and when they travel you may attract attention).

 

[jon0844]

If the people that need to know can track the there's no issue not having the data public.

 

[mattb7tl]

The concerns are probably slightly over blown, at least by the fact that no one raises such concerns around open door school buses in the same way which would have the same issues but parents often prefer these closed door type services over more open door or regular services due to the perceived safety of their child not having to share the bus with others and it being dedicated to the specific approved students (and if you are hanging around or following school buses around to find out where and when they travel you may attract attention).

First West Yorkshire no longer tracks schools. I believe it was disabled after a spotter entered a school bus pick up area for a picture of an old bus. I do not believe that was confirmed to be the reason however.

 

[markymark2000]

I worry that the current generation of enthusiasts coming up base their entire hobby on BusTimes and it’s all about being first rather than being accurate

I think it's been a thing for long before Bustimes and so I think it's unfair to say it's a current generation of enthusiasts thing. For years people lived and died by other fleet lists or fleet movements in Buses magazine etc. Bustimes is just another outlet for such information. I fully agree though in all cases with magazine fleet movements lists, enthusiast fleet lists and bustimes.org etc etc, there are FAR too many people thinking they are gospel rather than treating them as a helping tool.

I've seen it plenty of times on the forum though too, especially to the Liverpool Franchising thread. Easier to speculate than base off facts or wait for news. It's far from just a Bustimes thing!

For example on another forum there was a question about the fleet of an operator in my area who run numerous deckers on schools and rail replacement. Because they don’t track on BusTimes there is was no response, no interest, no knowledge.

Is this not kind of how it's always been? If there isn't the information out there publicly, you need to wait for someone to who does have the right information? There may be some element of not on bus times so no knowledge, but how do you want people to get knowledge if the information isn't there publicly? And understandably many operators have other priorities than sharing their intricate fleet details with enthusiasts. There is only so much research you can do before you hit a brick wall and so someone has rightly asked for details and is pending a response from someone in the know.

 

[Andyh82]

An example of how people jump at being first with the news. As mentioned elsewhere Yorkshire Buses have closed down, within a few moments of it becoming public knowledge someone went in and deleted all the fleet.

For those people who don’t keep their own records, there is therefore no record of what their closing fleet was, or indeed what their last workings were, and of course the fleet doesn’t just vanish, it’s probably still in the depot.

 

[jimbob185]

An example of how people jump at being first with the news. As mentioned elsewhere Yorkshire Buses have closed down, within a few moments of it becoming public knowledge someone went in and deleted all the fleet.

For those people who don’t keep their own records, there is therefore no record of what their closing fleet was, or indeed what their last workings were, and of course the fleet doesn’t just vanish, it’s probably still in the depot.

This link might be useful as it shows the fleet list with withdrawn vehicles included
Yorkshire Buses Fleet List

 

[markymark2000]

An example of how people jump at being first with the news. As mentioned elsewhere Yorkshire Buses have closed down, within a few moments of it becoming public knowledge someone went in and deleted all the fleet.

That's false. The edits got made at 8pm. In line with their closing down time. The news was public for many hours prior.

For those people who don’t keep their own records, there is therefore no record of what their closing fleet was, or indeed what their last workings were, and of course the fleet doesn’t just vanish, it’s probably still in the depot.

How is that a Bustimes issue though? In post #427 you say about people using Bustimes as their only source of fleet information, and now saying it's an issue that Bustimes hasn't kept the fleet list up for a company that has ceased trading so people can *checks notes* get a record of the closing fleet.....
So you don't want people to rely on Bustimes for fleet information except for when you want Bustimes to keep the fleet online so that people can get their fleet information?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

That's false. The edits got made at 8pm. In line with their closing down time. The news was public for many hours prior.


How is that a Bustimes issue though? In post #427 you say about people using Bustimes as their only source of fleet information, and now saying it's an issue that Bustimes hasn't kept the fleet list up for a company that has ceased trading so people can *checks notes* get a record of the closing fleet.....
So you don't want people to rely on Bustimes for fleet information except for when you want Bustimes to keep the fleet online so that people can get their fleet information?

Because the bus company has ceased trading but it's fleet has not vanished off the face of the earth. Deletion from one operator should only be permitted with a subsequent location added, even if that is dealer stock or scrapyard.

 

[markymark2000]

Because the bus company has ceased trading but it's fleet has not vanished off the face of the earth. Deletion from one operator should only be permitted with a subsequent location added, even if that is dealer stock or scrapyard.

Moving the bus to another operator doesn't always work because operators use different tracking codes.
And why on earth does Bustimes need to now log dealer stock and what is in a scrapyard? Bustimes is clear that it is not intended to be a complete fleet list and even tells people to use alternative sites for a more comprehensive list.

Fleet list – Fastrack (operated by Go Ahead) – bustimes.org

bustimes.org

"This is not intended to be a complete fleet list. It’s really a list of [Operator] ticket machines, a byproduct of the live bus tracking."

Rules & FAQ

bustimes.org

"How do I add a vehicle?
You can’t – the lists on bustimes.org are just a by-product of the live bus tracker map. Other websites like buslists.uk are the future, and will always be more comprehensive."

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Because the bus company has ceased trading but it's fleet has not vanished off the face of the earth. Deletion from one operator should only be permitted with a subsequent location added, even if that is dealer stock or scrapyard.

Ridiculous. Bustimes is not meant to be some sort of TOPS for the bus industry, it exists to allow the tracking of vehicles operating public services. The existence of fleetlists is a secondary consideration. And the actual tracking depends on ticket machines which are themselves not permanent fixtures. Next someone will suggest that bustimes should have new vehicles added as soon as they are deemed complete at the factory.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Ridiculous. Bustimes is not meant to be some sort of TOPS for the bus industry, it exists to allow the tracking of vehicles operating public services. The existence of fleetlists is a secondary consideration. And the actual tracking depends on ticket machines which are themselves not permanent fixtures. Next someone will suggest that bustimes should have new vehicles added as soon as they are deemed complete at the factory.

Not ridiculous at all. I was arguing against the ability of random individuals to make instant changes, rather than supporting it. Perhaps my post wasn't clear.

I didn't say it was a TOPS for the industry or for enthusiasts, but that feature exists, for whatever reason. Random people are allowed to make changes with or without supporting information. Yes, some people would add a vehicle as soon as it was painted, or left the factory, or was allocated internally by the company receiving it. Just as they rush to delete something when it suffers a fire. Having looked at the to and fro ding-dong battles between users over specific vehicles I would regard that aspect of the website wholly pointless.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Apr 2026 ==

Moving the bus to another operator doesn't always work because operators use different tracking codes.
And why on earth does Bustimes need to now log dealer stock and what is in a scrapyard? Bustimes is clear that it is not intended to be a complete fleet list and even tells people to use alternative sites for a more comprehensive list.

Fleet list – Fastrack (operated by Go Ahead) – bustimes.org

bustimes.org

Rules & FAQ

bustimes.org

It doesn't.
But an operator exists, it has fleet. It ceases to operate (not ceases to exist), it still has that fleet (and ticket machines). Nothing has changed except the buses (ticket machines) aren't on the road, so presumably aren't tracking anyway. If at 2100 someone bought the operator from the administrator, then the fleet and or ticket machines may well go with that purchase and be on the road the following morning.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Not ridiculous at all. I was arguing against the ability of random individuals to make instant changes, rather than supporting it. Perhaps my post wasn't clear.

In which case I apologise for being a little abrupt.

I didn't say it was a TOPS for the industry or for enthusiasts, but that feature exists, for whatever reason. Random people are allowed to make changes with or without supporting information. Yes, some people would add a vehicle as soon as it was painted, or left the factory, or was allocated internally by the company receiving it. Just as they rush to delete something when it suffers a fire. Having looked at the to and fro ding-dong battles between users over specific vehicles I would regard that aspect of the website wholly pointless.

On this point I totally agree. It is easily bustimes' biggest weakness. It is also not surprising given that Discord is the chosen channel for interactivity, a place designed for and largely populated by gamers who tend to be both competitive and all too often lacking in life experience which helps generate maturity.

However maitaining fleet lists on a national basis is a huge undertaking: little wonder that the more reliable sources need a subscription to access them and also include disclaimers about their accuracy at any given moment in time. (see below)

It doesn't.
But an operator exists, it has fleet. It ceases to operate (not ceases to exist), it still has that fleet (and ticket machines). Nothing has changed except the buses (ticket machines) aren't on the road, so presumably aren't tracking anyway. If at 2100 someone bought the operator from the administrator, then the fleet and or ticket machines may well go with that purchase and be on the road the following morning.

But why do enthusiasts think that they should be privy to such information in real time. The granting of an "O"-license does not require the holder to supply information purely for the benefit of spotters. Some number-crunchers need to understand and accept this as a basic fact of life.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

In which case I apologise for being a little abrupt.


On this point I totally agree. It is easily bustimes' biggest weakness. It is also not surprising given that Discord is the chosen channel for interactivity, a place designed for and largely populated by gamers who tend to be both competitive and all too often lacking in life experience which helps generate maturity.

However maitaining fleet lists on a national basis is a huge undertaking: little wonder that the more reliable sources need a subscription to access them and also include disclaimers about their accuracy at any given moment in time. (see below)


But why do enthusiasts think that they should be privy to such information in real time. The granting of an "O"-license does not require the holder to supply information purely for the benefit of spotters. Some number-crunchers need to understand and accept this as a basic fact of life.

Well that comes down that deeper personality aspect of 'enthusiasm', various levels thereof. The whole aspect of (generally) harmless ticking of numbers, completing of lists, taking of photographs, riding on routes / specific buses for the fun of it, or just wanting to know how the industry works and perhaps feeling 'a part of it'. No different than trains, planes and automobiles (and many other things too, military and crime for example). A whole industry built to support such interests.

I think the main front end is very useful indeed. Following the links, which most users probably don't, lets me know what trip my bus did previously (or usually does if running per rota). So if it ran late there that is why my bus is late now! I can check how previous trips on the day ran to pick up any delays I might encounter and set out a bit earlier if needed. And so on.

Got stuck boarding a train behind a re-enactment person the other day. Had the t-shirt stating that and a very large (probably) costume bag. Each to their own. Just remembered, a few years back, I got followed through York by a Roman Legionnaire. He even followed me into the real ale pub.

 

[AilsaBus]

None of the McGill's companies seem to be tracking on bustimes anymore.

 

[Highland050261]

None of the McGill's companies seem to be tracking on bustimes anymore.

Most companies in Scotland no longer track, as the Passenger API is no longer used.

 

[CMBS]

Most companies in Scotland no longer track, as the Passenger API is no longer used.

Companies that combine tracking with Traveline are still storing vehicle information

 

[Teapot42]

Has something changed behind the scenes on Bustimes in the last day or so? Possibly even today.

I'm getting 400 errors (bad request) for all pages. This is using Firefox - works OK on other browsers. I don't think it's linked with an update, as it last updated about a week ago and I've used bustimes since then.