Brighton Belle On Test - 2025 onwards

[WAO]

I hope it reaches New Brighton before visiting Brighton.

And the visiting LUL 4TC + class 73 in the opposite Merseyrail platform!

Dream on

WAO

 

[Ashley Hill]

Perhaps a regular Sunday luncheon trip London to Brighton and back would draw custom? Or perhaps evening Jazz trains now and again. It doesn’t just have to appeal to enthusiasts.

 

[WesternLancer]

I hope it reaches New Brighton before visiting Brighton.

And the visiting LUL 4TC + class 73 in the opposite Merseyrail platform!

Dream on

WAO

Well it is a new Brighton Belle

 

[Chris125]

Can't recall this being mentioned before but Belmond's own Brighton Belle driving car - No 93? - has been spotted being worked on at Eastleigh Works, presumably for use with the British Pullman. Any more details known?

 

[Rail_Sussex]

Would anyone know when the Belle will be testing?

 

[WesternLancer]

Anyone got any general updates on progress of the Belle restoration?

 

[apinnard]

Correct, from CIGs. Vehicles from 4 units (1304, 1392, 1881 & 1884) were scrapped for parts. Some of these vehicles were initially 'saved' from scrap for restoration to mainline standards at Eastleigh (in 2008 I think), however that all went quiet and the inevitable happened. At least some use has been made of the parts.

Bruce Knights initially “saved” 1881 and kept it warm at Eastleigh before changing his mind and selling some of it to the Belle project. The rest of 1881 was scrapped. It upset a handful of SR preservationists at the time.

 

[sad1e]

Any update on the Brighton Belle?

I haven't heard of it undergoing any mainline tests or any update on it at all for matterafact since the tests this January.

 

[M28361M]

There is a December 2025 update on the Brighton Belle website:

Locomotive Services Limited (LSL) continues to make good progress with the train. Currently they are repositioning all the footsteps on each vehicle to make the set as “gauge friendly” as possible. This work will be concluded by Friday 21 November. Following this, Hitachi Rail have been engaged to conduct a laser survey of the train. This will create a detailed and extremely accurate model of the train (with revised footstep locations) which will give the ability to “clear” the train to operate across as many routes as possible. This work will be ongoing in the background until after Christmas.

In terms of testing the 3rd rail equipment, Merseyrail advised that the third rail testing line on Chester depot has been decommissioned. This led LSL to open dialogue with Alstom at Litchurch Lane in Derby, which recently hosted the “Greatest Gathering” event as part of Rail 200. They have a purpose-built test track for 3rd rail vehicles which will allow the train to be tested in controlled conditions with no operational activities to impede the work. Alstom have kindly agreed to host a full day of testing.
Independently of the wider gauging process outlined above, Hitachi have agreed to carry out a specific gauge clearance exercise for the Belle to move to Litchurch Lane using existing kinematic data, which, although not as accurate as the new model will be, should be sufficient to allow the train to get to Derby and back, particularly as a wide range of unusual vehicles were cleared to access Derby for the Rail 200 event.

LSL expected to be submitting the documentation to Network Rail for approval to move in mid-November. They aim to be testing in Derby before the end of the year or very early in 2026 at the latest.

Disappointed that they won't be testing on Merseyrail as previously planned. Would have been interesting to see. Looks like Alstom's test track at Derby is the new plan (after the runs by 507001 recently proved the line to be suitable for heritage EMUs )

 

[WesternLancer]

There is a December 2025 update on the Brighton Belle website:



Disappointed that they won't be testing on Merseyrail as previously planned. Would have been interesting to see. Looks like Alstom's test track at Derby is the new plan (after the runs by 507001 recently proved the line to be suitable for heritage EMUs )

Thanks for posting this.

 

[Rail_Sussex]

There is a December 2025 update on the Brighton Belle website:



Disappointed that they won't be testing on Merseyrail as previously planned. Would have been interesting to see. Looks like Alstom's test track at Derby is the new plan (after the runs by 507001 recently proved the line to be suitable for heritage EMUs )

Good to hear an update, Hopefully it gets moved soon to derby as it’ll be great to see!

 

[sad1e]

There is a December 2025 update on the Brighton Belle website:



Disappointed that they won't be testing on Merseyrail as previously planned. Would have been interesting to see. Looks like Alstom's test track at Derby is the new plan (after the runs by 507001 recently proved the line to be suitable for heritage EMUs )

It's early 2026 now , Any ideas if testing has begun ?

 

[Ashley Hill]

Is the Belle still considered a future viable attraction? It was all go and then nothing. Has the impetus been lost?

 

[trainmania100]

Is the Belle still considered a future viable attraction? It was all go and then nothing. Has the impetus been lost?

It's still in progress, the link above was posted only last month

 

[Isle of Mull]

It's early 2026 now , Any ideas if testing has begun ?

There is testing booked for February 12th from Crewe to Chester and back a few times, that could be it?

 

[Chris125]

Is the Belle still considered a future viable attraction? It was all go and then nothing. Has the impetus been lost?

It's been underway for at least 15 years, this isn't a fast paced project.

 

[trainmania100]

There is testing booked for February 12th from Crewe to Chester and back a few times, that could be it?

Is that from internal information or just an assumption on the 5D4x paths that are WTT every week until then?

 

[Isle of Mull]

Is that from internal information or just an assumption on the 5D4x paths that are WTT every week until then?

An assumption as I don’t know what else would be doing it unless someone can provide internal info.

 

[trainmania100]

An assumption as I don’t know what else would be doing it unless someone can provide internal info.

I have heard about old dalby test track. Or something like that

 

[Invincible]

There is a December 2025 update on the Brighton Belle website:



Disappointed that they won't be testing on Merseyrail as previously planned. Would have been interesting to see. Looks like Alstom's test track at Derby is the new plan (after the runs by 507001 recently proved the line to be suitable for heritage EMUs )

Did the gauge clearance exercise for the Belle to move to Litchurch Lane 3rd rail test track not work out?

 

[Wyrleybart]

Is the Belle still considered a future viable attraction? It was all go and then nothing. Has the impetus been lost?

It went to Chester and back several times with class 20s last year presumably just to check everything worked as hauled air braked stock. As Chris says above, it is a long term project and even though funding probably isn't an issue for the future, it is probably a small team of person(s) dedicated to it. I have no doubt it will provide service within the next two or three years, even if "Braunton" or a two tone green Brush 4 takes it around Kent and Surrey for a few spins.

What is desperately needed is for LSL and Harry to do a deal on a class 33/1 to multi with it.

 

[Ashley Hill]

What is desperately needed is for LSL and Harry to do a deal on a class 33/1 to multi with it.

Surely the attraction would be running under its own power, otherwise it’s just another Pullman?

 

[contrex]

otherwise it’s just another Pullman?

It's a horrid mashup; it looks wrong (those bogies!) and will sound totally wrong to anyone who remembers the original Brighton line express stock.

 

[Sun Chariot]

It's a horrid mashup; it looks wrong (those bogies!) and will sound totally wrong to anyone who remembers the original Brighton line express stock.

It raises an age-old question of "preservation, vs restoration".

Is it better to restore a unique, historically-valuable asset in a way sympathetic to its heritage; with parts not all historically accurate, yet viable for its needs and essential for its future?

Or, is it better to attempt faithful recreation with exact-pattern parts and materials; but acknowledging they might not meet today's operating and safety requirement and so preclude its intended use (and revenue-generation)?

 

[WesternLancer]

It raises an age-old question of "preservation, vs restoration".

Is it better to restore a unique, historically-valuable asset in a way sympathetic to its heritage; with parts not all historically accurate, yet viable for its nreeds and essential for its future?

Or, is it better to attempt faithful recreation with exact-pattern parts and materials; but acknowledging they might not meet today's operating and safety requirement and so preclude its intended use (and revenue-generation)?

yes, presumably the a driving car plus other vehicles with original (rough riding reputedly?) bogies could be restored and pulled / push at a sedate pace along the Bluebell by a suitable loco, or displayed in a museum to recrate the authentic situation - but there's been a long time since c1972 for that to have happened but it never did.

But this is a bold project to run something on the main line regularly - perhaps with better riding than the original Belle - that will bring pleasure to large numbers of people and presumably at least cover its costs.

I assume the VSOE carriages made equivalent compromises.

 

[contrex]

(and revenue-generation)?

I concede that any such project needs to wash its face financially in order to be possible at all, and I accept that I am perhaps being silly to mourn the PULS/PAN/BEL vibe that was 30 years old when I first became a fan of it, and to moan about its mixing with what is now 63 year old technology. I dislike the Belmond brown-and cream monstrosities even more. And the HST painted up like a Midland Pullman.

 

[Sun Chariot]

I concede that any such project needs to wash its face financially in order to be possible at all, and I accept that I am perhaps being silly to mourn the PULS/PAN/BEL vibe that was 30 years old when I first became a fan of it, and to moan about its mixing with what is now 63 year old technology. I dislike the Belmond brown-and cream monstrosities even more. And the HST painted up like a Midland Pullman.

I remember the construction of A1 60163 was accompanied with similar sentiment of "build as Peppercorn designed" vs "design + manufacture for 21st century".
When I saw it and heard it on its inaugural ECML run, I knew the right decisions had been made; and so I remain similarly optimistic for the "BEL".

 

[contrex]

I also must accept that make-do-and-mend and re-use of components such as underframes is totally in keeping with the philosophy of the Southern Railway.

 

[WesternLancer]

I concede that any such project needs to wash its face financially in order to be possible at all, and I accept that I am perhaps being silly to mourn the PULS/PAN/BEL vibe that was 30 years old when I first became a fan of it, and to moan about its mixing with what is now 63 year old technology. I dislike the Belmond brown-and cream monstrosities even more. And the HST painted up like a Midland Pullman.

But there are others that have been or will be kept in more original condition, and this will probably be the case with Belle cars (for example I'd love to see an HST carriage or two restored to original internal layout with the original blue and orange fabric colours, but happy to see the 'Midland Pullman' making some money out of their re-incarnated set.

It looks like the driving car that went from the pub in Howarth to Carriages of Cambridge has original bogies on it perhaps?

Our Carriages - Carriages Tea Room

Being a lifelong “steamie” and collector of vintage vehicles, whilst on a business trip to India Michael was inspired by a restaurant and bar in a Colonial vintage train station. Having already created the Bannold display gardens to showcase the stone and aggregate why not build a railway...

www.carriagesofcambridge.co.uk

Goodness knows if they can finance the required restoration work on it. 50+ years out int he open will have created a lot of problems....

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Feb 2026 ==

The Blood and Custard website page is very helpful (tho some of the latest developments not up to date as yet)

BloodandCustard - Brighton Belle

But I see from that 2 driving cars are with the 5 Bel Trust
1 with the tea rooms at Cambridge
1 scrapped after fire damage
2 with VSOE at Stewarts Lane having had some work done on them in their Oostend workshops

Presumably they are in long term store at Stewarts Lane - what do / did VSOE - Belmond intend to do with these driving vehicles? was their plan to make them capable of running / being used as driving vehicles really progressed in any significant way?

 

[xotGD]

Who pays attention to bogies? You can't even see them when a train is at the platform.