Brigg Line - What’s the point?

[Llandudno]

Visited Cleethorpes yesterday to watch a football match (yes, I know!) and thought I would try the Saturday only Sheffield-Brigg-Cleethorpes line.

This Northern operated route runs three round trips on Saturdays and does not operate on any other days, it means that Gainsborough Central, Kirton Lindsey and Brigg stations are only open one day per week!

What is the point of this ‘service’ and when is the last time that a six or seven day passenger service operated on this route?
Is there much freight traffic on this line?

I guess that this is now the only Northern operated service that serves Grimsby and Cleethorpes so presumably only a limited number of train crew sign this route?

For info the mid morning 2 car 158 departure was approx 80% full seating capacity wise leaving Sheffield, but I doubt no more than 20 people travelled east of Retford, mainly football fans.

The 1917 return a 2 car 150 had around 15 passengers leaving Cleethorpes/Grimsby, of which nearly all were returning from the match. Some local passengers boarded west of Retford.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Has the service been reduced due to Covid reductions ?

 

[HST43257]

Has the service been reduced due to Covid reductions ?

It was 3tpd each way Saturday only pre-covid

 

[clagmonster]

Essentially, the point is to avoid expensive closure processes.

There are 25 each of drivers and guards who sign the link, the top Northern link at Sheffield.

The last weekday passenger service ran in 1993.

What I do think would make the existing service more strategically useful would be to transfer it to TPE, thus allowing their Cleethorpes and Sheffield traincrew to maintain route knowledge for diversionary purposes. Northern get nothing out of the route at present.

 

[Wolfie]

Essentially, the point is to avoid expensive closure processes.

There are 25 each of drivers and guards who sign the link, the top Northern link at Sheffield.

The last weekday passenger service ran in 1993.

What I do think would make the existing service more strategically useful would be to transfer it to TPE, thus allowing their Cleethorpes and Sheffield traincrew to maintain route knowledge for diversionary purposes. Northern get nothing out of the route at present.

Re your first sentence l would assume, if plans are to cut railway expenditure, that litigation to change that situation would likely be a precursor.

 

[The Quincunx]

Essentially, the point is to avoid expensive closure processes.

There are 25 each of drivers and guards who sign the link, the top Northern link at Sheffield.

The last weekday passenger service ran in 1993.

What I do think would make the existing service more strategically useful would be to transfer it to TPE, thus allowing their Cleethorpes and Sheffield traincrew to maintain route knowledge for diversionary purposes. Northern get nothing out of the route at present.

Closures are not expensive.

 

[py_megapixel]

Closures are not expensive.

If that were the case, I'm sure there are plenty of lines/stations that would be closed.

 

[Iskra]

It’s a nice jolly for fish and chips for the Northern crew that sign it.

 

[yorksrob]

Essentially, the point is to avoid expensive closure processes.

There are 25 each of drivers and guards who sign the link, the top Northern link at Sheffield.

The last weekday passenger service ran in 1993.

What I do think would make the existing service more strategically useful would be to transfer it to TPE, thus allowing their Cleethorpes and Sheffield traincrew to maintain route knowledge for diversionary purposes. Northern get nothing out of the route at present.

The thinking out in 1993 was part of the fattening up for privatisation and sell off. It should have had a proper service restored decades ago.

 

[Dr Hoo]

The thinking out in 1993 was part of the fattening up for privatisation and sell off. It should have had a proper service restored decades ago.

I think that Regional Railways had more pressing financial and resource issues in 1993 than this being some government-inspired "fattening up" exercise.

(I am not clear how cutting services to one day per week, not to mention broadly simultaneous cuts on lines like Whitby and Knottingley-Goole constituted "fattening up" either.)

The route has been heavily used for freight diversions during various times when the line via Scunthorpe has been unavailable, which is by its greatest strategic benefit.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Wasn't a weekday service as far as Gainsborough Central introduced (or planned to be introduced) not long before Covid hit?

 

[Heaps92]

Freight runs down this way when scunthorpe is shut for possession work its also cheaper to path trains this way due to how quiet it is

 

[HST43257]

Wasn't a weekday service as far as Gainsborough Central introduced (or planned to be introduced) not long before Covid hit?

Yep it allowed the Lincoln Northerns to be faster between Sheffield and Worksop

 

[tbtc]

What I do think would make the existing service more strategically useful would be to transfer it to TPE, thus allowing their Cleethorpes and Sheffield traincrew to maintain route knowledge for diversionary purposes. Northern get nothing out of the route at present.

That seems reasonable (if we must continue to run the current level of services on the line)

The thinking out in 1993 was part of the fattening up for privatisation and sell off. It should have had a proper service restored decades ago.

"Everything great that happened under BR was because BR was brilliant, but everything bad that happened under BR was because of the nasty Government forcing them to"

I wish I could find an uncomplicated love to match the adoration you have for BR...

Wasn't a weekday service as far as Gainsborough Central introduced (or planned to be introduced) not long before Covid hit?

Yeah, it was hourly from Sheffield (with the Leeds - Lincoln service running non stop from Sheffield to Worksop, so that the "local" passengers used the service that terminated at Gainisborough)

One oddity of this is that I'd believed for years that the reason why the Lincoln - Sheffield trains ran through to Huddersfield/ Leeds/ Doncaster/ Adwick/ Scunthorpe etc was because there was a requirement for an hourly service from the "south Rotherham" stations like Kiveton to Meadowhall - but the new services saw this link removed since the "south Rotherham" trains terminated at Sheffield Midland)

 

[yorksrob]

That seems reasonable (if we must continue to run the current level of services on the line)



"Everything great that happened under BR was because BR was brilliant, but everything bad that happened under BR was because of the nasty Government forcing them to"

I wish I could find an uncomplicated love to match the adoration you have for BR...



Yeah, it was hourly from Sheffield (with the Leeds - Lincoln service running non stop from Sheffield to Worksop, so that the "local" passengers used the service that terminated at Gainisborough)

One oddity of this is that I'd believed for years that the reason why the Lincoln - Sheffield trains ran through to Huddersfield/ Leeds/ Doncaster/ Adwick/ Scunthorpe etc was because there was a requirement for an hourly service from the "south Rotherham" stations like Kiveton to Meadowhall - but the new services saw this link removed since the "south Rotherham" trains terminated at Sheffield Midland)

Yet on another thread you're complaining that electrification is too expensive, something that has happened as a result of privatisation.

You defend privatisation to the hilt, but you don't you can't justify the cost hikes as a result of it !

 

[61653 HTAFC]

One oddity of this is that I'd believed for years that the reason why the Lincoln - Sheffield trains ran through to Huddersfield/ Leeds/ Doncaster/ Adwick/ Scunthorpe etc was because there was a requirement for an hourly service from the "south Rotherham" stations like Kiveton to Meadowhall - but the new services saw this link removed since the "south Rotherham" trains terminated at Sheffield Midland)

The Meadowhall link was certainly at the very least a "happy consequence" of linking those services, but I'm not sure how much it was the principal driver. One of the reasons Northern (under various operators) had so many seemingly odd through services, was to get as much out of their fleet as possible.
The Huddersfield to Lincoln link is set to return in the future on Sundays only, meaning that one day a week Huddersfield will see 195s in service.

 

[D6130]

Back in the day, the Brigg line was part of the quickest and most direct route from Sheffield - and for that matter, Manchester - to Grimsby and Cleethorpes and was very busy with holiday traffic during the Summer months. However, the almost terminal decline of UK seaside holidays from the early 'sixties onwards rendered it virtually surplus to requirements, as it made economic sense to send the remaining traffic via the longer and slower route which served the much larger population centres of Doncaster and Scunthorpe. IIRC, the is/was a cement works at Kirton Lindsey which was once rail-served, but no longer.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Closures are not expensive.

Only if no one objects to the closure. I am sure if this were proposed for the Brigg line there would be a significant number of objections in spite of it arguably being of very little value as it stands today.

 

[Peterthegreat]

I think that Regional Railways had more pressing financial and resource issues in 1993 than this being some government-inspired "fattening up" exercise.

(I am not clear how cutting services to one day per week, not to mention broadly simultaneous cuts on lines like Whitby and Knottingley-Goole constituted "fattening up" either.)

The route has been heavily used for freight diversions during various times when the line via Scunthorpe has been unavailable, which is by its greatest strategic benefit.

The reason the service was cut, along with those on the S & K, Knottingley to Goole and the Whitby line was the government's refusal to permit RRNE more second generation dmus.

 

[Class 466]

Visited Cleethorpes yesterday to watch a football match (yes, I know!) and thought I would try the Saturday only Sheffield-Brigg-Cleethorpes line.

This Northern operated route runs three round trips on Saturdays and does not operate on any other days, it means that Gainsborough Central, Kirton Lindsey and Brigg stations are only open one day per week!

What is the point of this ‘service’ and when is the last time that a six or seven day passenger service operated on this route?
Is there much freight traffic on this line?

I guess that this is now the only Northern operated service that serves Grimsby and Cleethorpes so presumably only a limited number of train crew sign this route?

For info the mid morning 2 car 158 departure was approx 80% full seating capacity wise leaving Sheffield, but I doubt no more than 20 people travelled east of Retford, mainly football fans.

The 1917 return a 2 car 150 had around 15 passengers leaving Cleethorpes/Grimsby, of which nearly all were returning from the match. Some local passengers boarded west of Retford.

Gainsborough Central gets a weekday service to Sheffield, why not just run it through all week?

 

[Wolfie]

I think that Regional Railways had more pressing financial and resource issues in 1993 than this being some government-inspired "fattening up" exercise.

(I am not clear how cutting services to one day per week, not to mention broadly simultaneous cuts on lines like Whitby and Knottingley-Goole constituted "fattening up" either.)

The route has been heavily used for freight diversions during various times when the line via Scunthorpe has been unavailable, which is by its greatest strategic benefit.

I would imagine that the OP would argue that the public sector made the unpopular cuts which made the books look better.

 

[Dr Hoo]

The reason the service was cut, along with those on the S & K, Knottingley to Goole and the Whitby line was the government's refusal to permit RRNE more second generation dmus.

I would imagine that the OP would argue that the public sector made the unpopular cuts which made the books look better.

I will be accused of turning this into a 'north v south' argument but would mention that Regional Railways had 'enough' Class 158s on order to cover its (diesel) plans through various cascades but a significant slice was diverted to Network SouthEast as Class 159s for the Waterloo-Salisbury-Exeter service. This made cuts such as the Brigg line inevitable.

 

[adrock1976]

With the Restoring Your Railway project, one of the suggestions has been to extend the Sheffield - Gainsborough Central to Barton-on-Humber every second hour, which would restore daily passenger trains to Kirton-in-Lindsey and Brigg as well as direct trains from Barton to destinations westwards.

Also, from my observations, there are community groups in that part of Lincolnshire that do their best to promote the line in spite of the three journeys each way on one day of the week.

 

[Wolfie]

I will be accused of turning this into a 'north v south' argument but would mention that Regional Railways had 'enough' Class 158s on order to cover its (diesel) plans through various cascades but a significant slice was diverted to Network SouthEast as Class 159s for the Waterloo-Salisbury-Exeter service. This made cuts such as the Brigg line inevitable.

Absolutely true, still Government cost saving, BR was told to find alternatives for down South. Not about to argue the merits as l know too little about the finances.

 

[XAM2175]

The thinking out in 1993 was part of the fattening up for privatisation and sell off. It should have had a proper service restored decades ago.

Would you care to explain how cutting the service to Saturdays only contributed to 'fattening up for privatisation'?

 

[Kite159]

The Meadowhall link was certainly at the very least a "happy consequence" of linking those services, but I'm not sure how much it was the principal driver. One of the reasons Northern (under various operators) had so many seemingly odd through services, was to get as much out of their fleet as possible.
The Huddersfield to Lincoln link is set to return in the future on Sundays only, meaning that one day a week Huddersfield will see 195s in service.

Huddersfield to Lincoln already runs on Sundays, normally formed of a 150.

Unless Northern has plans to run 2 coach 195s towards Huddersfield on Sundays instead?

 

[yorksrob]

Would you care to explain how cutting the service to Saturdays only contributed to 'fattening up for privatisation'?

Basically the Government thinned out some services prior to privatisation to make the franchises more popular for franchisees.

Same thing happenned to the Whitby line as well.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Huddersfield to Lincoln already runs on Sundays, normally formed of a 150.

Unless Northern has plans to run 2 coach 195s towards Huddersfield on Sundays instead?

Today's Lincoln to Huddersfield trains are 150s or 158s.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Back in the day, the Brigg line was part of the quickest and most direct route from Sheffield - and for that matter, Manchester - to Grimsby and Cleethorpes

It was part of the original Manchester Sheffield & Lincolnshire railway's main line from Manchester to Immingham Docks, completed in 1849. The more northerly route, including the bridge over the Trent at Keadby, was only opened in 1866, primarily to serve the recently discovered iron ore deposits at Scunthorpe.

 

[The Quincunx]

Only if no one objects to the closure. I am sure if this were proposed for the Brigg line there would be a significant number of objections in spite of it arguably being of very little value as it stands today.

There is no longer any ability to "object" to a closure - all you can do nowadays is make a representation. Nor does the local rail users consultative committee (if such things still existed!) have any power to hold a public hearing to investigate hardship, like they used to. All those comments you expect would be dealt with in the response to representations published by DfT.