Bombardier win London Overground contract for 45 EMUs

[physics34]

The lights are just horrid, look like something from the 1970s. Hope this isn't really what they'll look like.

Yeh looks like the lights on class 89 Avocet .

 

[jon0844]

Yeh looks like the lights on class 89 Avocet .

Yes, I knew it looked familiar. I thought that was dead ugly too. Like someone put the lights in the wrong way.

 

[TheNewNo2]

Clearly the reason FGW never accepted my application to be a train driver was that I'd be too big to fit through the cab doors. You'd need to be supermodel thin to get through that!

I think the 378s look better, but it's not awful.

 

[GatwickDepress]

Even if rotated the headlights look sluggish!

 

[Deepgreen]

Body lines haven't changed but frontage has changed a bit.

They even kept the body length orange line just above the doors and extended it on to the front.

Puts me in mind of a Whale Shark with the huge wide 'mouth'!

 

[swt_passenger]

A reply on last week's London Mayor's question time (quoted in full on Skyscraper City) has revealed that the interior layout of the trains will not all be the same. Boris has said:

The Gospel Oak to Barking line trains will have Tube-style seating, similar to London Overground trains on the East and North London lines.

West Anglia trains will have some transverse seating. Both train types will include wheelchair spaces and multi-use areas which can be used by cycles.

Will that justify them being different sub-classes of whatever number they eventually carry?

 

[jopsuk]

I guarantee now that the GOBLIN ones will turn up on WA and vice-versa.

And, as far as I can tell from earlier stuff, the extra units will be used to displace 5-car 378s from the Watford DC. Will these be WA or GOBLIN spec?

 

[D365]

Will that justify them being different sub-classes of whatever number they eventually carry?

So from the information I've gleaned/interpreted/made sense of, there will be two distinct fleets:

• West Anglia pool: 31 units AC-only with interior based on the S8 design - based at Ilford
• Watford/Goblin pool: 14 units dual-voltage with interior based on the 378 design - based at Willesden

Subclasses would be far too logical, if I've got my facts straight

 

[332 > 444]

So from the information I've gleaned/interpreted/made sense of, there will be two distinct fleets:

• West Anglia pool: 31 units AC-only with interior based on the S8 design - based at Ilford
• Watford/Goblin pool: 14 units dual-voltage with interior based on the 378 design - based at Willesden

Subclasses would be far too logical, if I've got my facts straight

Oh ffs! Not my GOBLIN, most travellers on there go a long way. S8 seating will be much better especially as a 4 car everyone will be spread out

 

[transmanche]

Oh ffs! Not my GOBLIN, most travellers on there go a long way.

Even if that's true, it's only 35-38 mins end-to-end!

 

[MCR247]

Oh ffs! Not my GOBLIN, most travellers on there go a long way. S8 seating will be much better especially as a 4 car everyone will be spread out

Even if that's true, it's only 35-38 mins end-to-end!

But if there is lots of end-to-end travel would that suggest a low turnover of seats? If so there may be a lot of people that will no longer have much chance of a seat

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Will the GOBLIN ones be able/allowed to run on any route operated by the current 378s?

 

[43074]

Will the GOBLIN ones be able/allowed to run on any route operated by the current 378s?

In theory yes, but they probably won't (except Willesden to Gospel Oak on ECS workings) because they only have 4-coaches compared to 5 on a 378. The reason they will run on the DC is to replace 5-car 378s which in turn provide more capacity elsewhere on the 378 network.

 

[D365]

Although it should be possible to procure additional carriages to augement the [either] Aventra fleet.

 

[NotATrainspott]

The source that described the seating arrangements on the two sub-fleets also indicated that there's an option to extend the new trains to five cars., which I assume to be the maximum length of a single Bombardier EMU as it is for the 378s.

These new trains wouldn't be allowed to run on the ELL because they don't have end escape doors for the narrow Thames Tunnel.

 

[D365]

The source that described the seating arrangements on the two sub-fleets also indicated that there's an option to extend the new trains to five cars., which I assume to be the maximum length of a single Bombardier EMU as it is for the 378s.

You'd better let TfL know as their Crossrail Aventras are certainly more than five-car units!

 

[po8crg]

The source that described the seating arrangements on the two sub-fleets also indicated that there's an option to extend the new trains to five cars., which I assume to be the maximum length of a single Bombardier EMU as it is for the 378s.

It's not a Bombardier limitation. My understanding is that there are infrastructure limitations on Overground that prevent the use of trains longer than 5x20m.

 

[D365]

It's not a Bombardier limitation. My understanding is that there are infrastructure limitations on Overground that prevent the use of trains longer than 5x20m.

NotATrainspott is referring to the TMS on the 378, which in its current configuration, will apparently not accept more than five carriages per unit.

 

[Andrew L]

http://http://www.globalrailnews.com/2015/07/20/first-look-at-the-newest-addition-to-london-overgrounds-fleet/

First images released. As has been stated before on here new build off the aventra platform. Not a fan of the lights but other than that not bad!

Not a bad looking train, I agree with others that the lights don't look right but other than that, it doesn't look too bad.

 

[NotATrainspott]

NotATrainspott is referring to the TMS on the 378, which in its current configuration, will apparently not accept more than five carriages per unit.

Yes, that. It's also my understanding that as EMUs get longer, they start to become two separate sub-trains permanently joined together. At five cars, it's possible for one transformer to supply all the motor vehicles needed, but at six cars and above, two transformers are needed. Due to the way the trains are then set up electrically, when you have two transformers you've then basically got two electrically separate trains coupled together. It would be possible for the Overground EMUs to be extended to six cars and above but that would involve significantly more work than just adding in another trailer or motor car, meaning there's not a vast amount of point in doing so. It's like how when the Pendolinos were extended from 9-car to 11-car, another transformer carriage was necessary.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is that, presumably, the point they wish they'd specified corridor connections? Or a beefier transformer - on much of LO there is a case for going to 6-car but not really further due to platform lengths etc.

 

[D365]

Corridor connections are easy enough if you're happy to shell out for Bombardier to convert/replace cabs on a rolling basis. It would have been far easier to have the foresight that units longer than 4 or 5 cars may eventually be required; however I suppose we can't get away from the 'what-ifs'.

 

[transmanche]

But if there is lots of end-to-end travel would that suggest a low turnover of seats? If so there may be a lot of people that will no longer have much chance of a seat

I seriously doubt there is a lot of end-to-end travel. I've noted relatively large numbers of people boarding at Crouch Hill and Upper Holloway travelling to Gospel Oak.

 

[Chris125]

These new trains wouldn't be allowed to run on the ELL because they don't have end escape doors for the narrow Thames Tunnel.

I'm surprised there's not a similar restriction on the Watford DC, aren't the single bore South Hampstead tunnels pretty tight?

 

[causton]

I'm surprised there's not a similar restriction on the Watford DC, aren't the single bore tunnels under Primrose Hill pretty tight?

I don't think these new trains will be for the Watford DC, all that I've seen says they are to replace the ex-Greater Anglia trains. 378s do have the escape steps for those tunnels.

 

[tsr]

Is it just me, or does it look like the cab (where the roundel is located, and above) has two panels which, if folded down, could reveal a set of emergency steps? (Obviously the windscreen would need to fold up or otherwise outwards, but I'm sure that would be possible.)

I appreciate this is basically a technical "artist's impression" drawing and render, and I am also aware this may be random speculation and not actually in any way connected with the features on the units. It's just an observation on my part.

 

[Chris125]

I don't think these new trains will be for the Watford DC, all that I've seen says they are to replace the ex-Greater Anglia trains. 378s do have the escape steps for those tunnels.

31 units are for West Anglia services, but 14 dual-voltage units based at Willesden will work Gospel Oak-Barking and Watford DC services - I believe this has now been confirmed by TfL.

edit: looking at the following photo it does appear there's an emergency walkway https://www.flickr.com/photos/127662272@N07/17782704332/

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't think these new trains will be for the Watford DC, all that I've seen says they are to replace the ex-Greater Anglia trains. 378s do have the escape steps for those tunnels.

6 x 4 car units will replace 6 x 5 car 378s from the DC lines (still to be lengthened), the 378s released will augment services on the NLL and ELL. The link to the relevant TfL board paper is in my earlier post #47 in this thread, repeated from the 378 thread: https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/fpc-20150617-item16-part-1-lotrain.pdf
Paragraph 3.6 of the report.

 

[causton]

6 x 4 car units will replace 6 x 5 car 378s from the DC lines (still to be lengthened), the 378s released will augment services on the NLL and ELL. The link to the relevant TfL board paper is in my earlier post #47 in this thread, repeated from the 378 thread: https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/fpc-20150617-item16-part-1-lotrain.pdf
Paragraph 3.6 of the report.

Thanks, this wasn't made too clear in the news reports accompanying the picture of the train! I see now

 

[87015]

To be 710s by all accounts