Blockade to allow Waterloo upgrade to take place, resulting in timetable changes

[infobleep]

It seems plenty of commuters took their holidays from today.

Interesting. I was on leave myself today. I won't be on Monday so will be interesting to see what it's like. Actually looking forward to it.

 

[Suraggu]

Interesting. I was on leave myself today. I won't be on Monday so will be interesting to see what it's like. Actually looking forward to it.

I am glad you are because I am certainly not. It's going to be a busy 3 weeks.

 

[infobleep]

I am glad you are because I am certainly not. It's going to be a busy 3 weeks.

They said the Olympics would be busy and it wasn't. Anyway I see that there is a signalling fault between Ascot and Wokingham that is affecting the North Downs Line and that is mentioned on the live departure board for Guildford.

There is however no mention of the fact the works have now started at Waterloo or even the fact passengers might have to queue at Guildford so perhaps things are going to be OK. There is a note at Surbtion about queueing for 20 minutes during peak times, so perhaps they are expecting it still to be busy there. I guess all will be revealed on Monday, if people go to Twitter to complain, as I'm sure some will.

I see there are some trains from Waterloo delayed but no reason given, so don't know if it's the works delaying them or something else.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I see there are some trains from Waterloo delayed but no reason given, so don't know if it's the works delaying them or something else.

Delays and cancellations to/from Reading because of the Wokingham problem, according to RTT.

 

[nlogax]

There is a note at Surbtion about queueing for 20 minutes during peak times, so perhaps they are expecting it still to be busy there. I guess all will be revealed on Monday, if people go to Twitter to complain, as I'm sure some will.

My plan to stop using Surbs during the blockade has already come unstuck - a meeting means I have to be in the city for 8am on Monday. Needless to say I'll be well-versed in zone 6 queuing times by the time I get there.

 

[infobleep]

The Times has a report about Waterloo blockade on page 12 of it's print edition today. Unsurprisingly it's negative and they are reporting something as if it's just been found out when it's been known for a while ir at least most of it has been known, if not all of it. Perhaps there transport corrispondant was on holiday this part month or two.

No payouts for Waterloo chapel.
Graeme Paton, Transport Correspondent
Thousands of passengers embroiled in the worst rail disruption for years could be denied compensation despite being forced to endure a substandard service for almost a month.
The passe he watchdog has urged the government to intervene to reimburse travellers who will face chaos following the partial shutdown of London Waterloo, Britain's busiest railway station.
It also emerged that enhanced compensation measures — which has been due to be introduced a few weeks into the work — will be suspended amid concerns that it would cost the line's operator too much money.
From today, passengers across the south of England will be hit by the closure of almost half of the platforms at Waterloo for more than three weeks. Platforms will be extended to accommodate longer trains.
Network Rail has already warned of queues of up to 60 minutes at some stations, the impact being felt across south London, Surrey, Hampshire, Berkshire, Wiltshire and Dorset.
Seven stations across the South West Trains network, which runs into Waterloo, will be shut during the work. A further 20 will be running "significantly" fewer trains. In total 190 stations are expected to be unusually busy at peak times, including those as far west as Yeovil and Exeter.
However it emerged yesterday that many passengers will be unable to provide claim full compensation for disruption because of rules that allow operators to run a significantly reduced service — as long as they have wearned passengers in advance.

And on it goes. The only new thing I learnt from that, apart from a Transport Focus comment, was that the new operator are delaying their 15 minutes compensation scheme by a week.

Perhaps in all future weekend engineering works compensation should be relaxed so long as the operator is no financially worse or better off.

I assume no passengers will be financially disadvantaged by these works because alternative transport arrangements for the same ticket prices exist.

 

[pompeyfan]

One benefit I have noticed today, is the amount of 444s out and about today, rather than the usual endless 450s.

 

[hwl]

The Times has a report about Waterloo blockade on page 12 of it's print edition today. Unsurprisingly it's negative and they are reporting something as if it's just been found out when it's been known for a while ir at least most of it has been known, if not all of it. Perhaps there transport corrispondant was on holiday this part month or two.



And on it goes. The only new thing I learnt from that, apart from a Transport Focus comment, was that the new operator are delaying their 15 minutes compensation scheme by a week.

Perhaps in all future weekend engineering works compensation should be relaxed so long as the operator is no financially worse or better off.

I assume no passengers will be financially disadvantaged by these works because alternative transport arrangements for the same ticket prices exist.

It has only been well publicised for the last 13 months... but then again when have transport correspondents kept an eye on rail in any meaning full way.

The escalation in NR's Schedule 4 payments to TOCs in recent years has been silly and will ultimately make many works to expensive to contemplate so anything that keeps the costs down is good for the long term. 5 TOCs got S4 between £20-50m each in FY2015-16.

 

[Matt Taylor]

One benefit I have noticed today, is the amount of 444s out and about today, rather than the usual endless 450s.

Is that 444s on the Portsmouth Direct? It's been solidly 450s only since 2005 and before that it was Class 423s exclusively on Saturdays!

 

[pompeyfan]

Is that 444s on the Portsmouth Direct? It's been solidly 450s only since 2005 and before that it was Class 423s exclusively on Saturdays!

Yes Matt, quite a few 10/444s on the direct. Appear to be on stoppers more than fasts sadly.

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't think the media are being realistic, at all. Nowadays they seem to be constantly suggesting that pre-emptive refunds of season tickets should be made whenever engineering work needs a blockade and/or diversions.

I guess in a couple of weeks they'll bet singing the same song about the WCML blockade?

I can't think of many cases where blanket fare reductions have been planned in advance of engineering works, just because they impact weekday peaks. The London Bridge area reductions were a response AFTER it had proved impossible to run even the planned reduced timetable, IIRC.

Maybe they should also reduce walk up fares on all the weekends across the country when engineering works take place, and make them more costly all round as well. I suppose the typical transport correspondent doesn't notice any of that happening...

 

[Class 170101]

Correct. The same amount of trains will run but Wimbledon panel will allocate platforms for services on a train by train basis. It is actually a rather complex operation.

Hows that going to work for the evening peaks though? TRain A on Monday departing from 20, next day from 21, the following day from 23 then back to 20 the following day isn't this a recipe for passenger congestion on the concourse? I noted that access to / from 19 / 20 last week wasn't as well signposted as it could be it seemed. I'm not a regular user of Waterloo either.

 

[Suraggu]

Hows that going to work for the evening peaks though? TRain A on Monday departing from 20, next day from 21, the following day from 23 then back to 20 the following day isn't this a recipe for passenger congestion on the concourse? I noted that access to / from 19 / 20 last week wasn't as well signposted as it could be it seemed. I'm not a regular user of Waterloo either.

My apologies I should clarify the International platforms are the only services with allocated platforms by the signaller and train planning. Platforms 11 to 19 are delivered by a train by train basis. But that does not mean the same service on the international side will not be on the same platform two days in a row.

Apps like NRE have been requested not to allocate platforms as this is going to cause congestion. Platform staff will contact the Waterloo Service Delivery Team when the platform is clear and the train is ready to load.
It is sign posted Reading, Windsor and Weybridge services are departing from 20-24.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I see there are some trains from Waterloo delayed but no reason given, so don't know if it's the works delaying them or something else.

There was a signal failure between Waterloo and Clapham Junction this morning which appeared to bite at around 09.00 and resulted in several 30 min + delays and some trains being sent fast to regain schedules.

Missing out five stops didn't save much time on this one though!

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W35815/2017/08/05

...which was rather annoying when changing at Raynes Park for Surbiton in order to get to Hampton Court from Epsom!

( Having missed the previous one http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W35810/2017/08/05 by literally ten seconds! )

 

[infobleep]

There was a signal failure between Waterloo and Clapham Junction this morning which appeared to bite at around 09.00 and resulted in several 30 min + delays and some trains being sent fast to regain schedules.

Missing out five stops didn't save much time on this one though!

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W35815/2017/08/05

...which was rather annoying when changing at Raynes Park for Surbiton in order to get to Hampton Court from Epsom!

( Having missed the previous one http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W35810/2017/08/05 by literally ten seconds! )

Interesting that they didn't skip Berrylands. Maybe that was due to it having less trains running through it.

I see some services were marked as delayed yesterday due to congestion. I assume the congestion occurred as a result of the earlier signalling issues.

Something rare is happening at Guildford today. Trains to Portsmouth Harbour are using platform 4. Now they regularly do that Monday to Saturday, except late at night or a few trains in the peaks but on Sundays it seems to always be platform 2. It a minor point in the grand scheme of things but unusual none the less in a Sunday.

 

[Malcolmffc]

The Times has a report about Waterloo blockade on page 12 of it's print edition today. Unsurprisingly it's negative and they are reporting something as if it's just been found out when it's been known for a while ir at least most of it has been known, if not all of it. Perhaps there transport corrispondant was on holiday this part month or two.



And on it goes. The only new thing I learnt from that, apart from a Transport Focus comment, was that the new operator are delaying their 15 minutes compensation scheme by a week.

Perhaps in all future weekend engineering works compensation should be relaxed so long as the operator is no financially worse or better off.

I assume no passengers will be financially disadvantaged by these works because alternative transport arrangements for the same ticket prices exist.

There are alternative arrangements but they are slower and far less convenient, and a degradation in the service that has been paid for by season ticket holders.

If you ordered a £30 steak in a posh restaurant and then got served a Big Mac because he steak wasn't available, would you happy because you weren't financially disadvantaged?

 

[pompeyfan]

Yesterday's issue meant that trains couldn't cross from the UWF at Queenstown road to the WR. The subsequent block to fix it is what caused the congestion.

 

[louis97]

Correct. The same amount of trains will run but Wimbledon panel will allocate platforms for services on a train by train basis. It is actually a rather complex operation.

Not the same in the Off Peak, the Hampton Court services are now a shuttle from Surbiton.

 

[Mordac]

I don't think the media are being realistic, at all. Nowadays they seem to be constantly suggesting that pre-emptive refunds of season tickets should be made whenever engineering work needs a blockade and/or diversions.

I guess in a couple of weeks they'll bet singing the same song about the WCML blockade?

I can't think of many cases where blanket fare reductions have been planned in advance of engineering works, just because they impact weekday peaks. The London Bridge area reductions were a response AFTER it had proved impossible to run even the planned reduced timetable, IIRC.

Maybe they should also reduce walk up fares on all the weekends across the country when engineering works take place, and make them more costly all round as well. I suppose the typical transport correspondent doesn't notice any of that happening...

All trains in the country outside the former NSE area could stop and the average transport correspondent wouldn't notice!

 

[Juniper Driver]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/27103...pgrade-platforms-south-west-trains-cancelled/

The comment at the bottom of this article sums it up of peoples lack of knowledge and thinking they know better.Or at least they think so.I'm glad this person knows the Waterloo Station layout so well and could see why this would not work.

Platforms are being lengthened at stations along the Reading line to take longer trains with more carriages.

Already done,except at Waterloo? Though the platforms at Waterloo being extended aren't generally used for Reading trains.

 

[Feathers44]

There are alternative arrangements but they are slower and far less convenient, and a degradation in the service that has been paid for by season ticket holders.

If you ordered a £30 steak in a posh restaurant and then got served a Big Mac because he steak wasn't available, would you happy because you weren't financially disadvantaged?

Given that the fact that steak wouldn't be available has been advertised since at least the beginning of the year if not longer then a goodly number of ticket holders should have been aware of this at the time of purchase making it very much 'what they paid for'. I agree, for others who bought before the news was released (if there are any) then the issue at be a little more blurred.

 

[TEW]

Given that the fact that steak wouldn't be available has been advertised since at least the beginning of the year if not longer then a goodly number of ticket holders should have been aware of this at the time of purchase making it very much 'what they paid for'. I agree, for others who bought before the news was released (if there are any) then the issue at be a little more blurred.

I seem to remember the initial publicity was around this time last year.

 

[EAD]

I seem to remember the initial publicity was around this time last year.

Yes - they started at the beginning of August 2016 warning 1 year out etc. Then there have been stickers on trains, announcements on board in general and at relevant stations and finally posters at stations and booklets being handed out. It has slowly built up over time, but I am waiting for the first person tomorrow to tell me they knew nothing of it, etc. :roll:

 

[swt_passenger]

If you ordered a £30 steak in a posh restaurant and then got served a Big Mac because he steak wasn't available, would you happy because you weren't financially disadvantaged?

Longish distance season ticket holders on SWT already pay some of the lowest (relative to Anytime) prices for their travel. If you like your analogies, they already get steak for the price of a Big Mac...

 

[infobleep]

There are alternative arrangements but they are slower and far less convenient, and a degradation in the service that has been paid for by season ticket holders.

If you ordered a £30 steak in a posh restaurant and then got served a Big Mac because he steak wasn't available, would you happy because you weren't financially disadvantaged?

It could be argued that when you bought your steak you were told that it would be a big mac for a certain length of time or all of the time. Then you decide if you'd rather the big mac.

Of course this assumes one was told when about thr substitution at the time of purchasing. In terms of buying season tickets, for example annual ones, I'd be surprised if everyone was told, especially if buying online.

Edit: I see others have said much the same before me.

 

[infobleep]

Longish distance season ticket holders on SWT already pay some of the lowest (relative to Anytime) prices for their travel. If you like your analogies, they already get steak for the price of a Big Mac...

One might argue the steaks are overpriced unless you buy multiple of them or that other companies charge big mac prices for one off steaks and not much discount off that if buying multiple steaks.

 

[Bookd]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/27103...pgrade-platforms-south-west-trains-cancelled/

The comment at the bottom of this article sums it up of peoples lack of knowledge and thinking they know better.Or at least they think so.I'm glad this person knows the Waterloo Station layout so well and could see why this would not work.

Platforms are being lengthened at stations along the Reading line to take longer trains with more carriages.

Already done,except at Waterloo? Though the platforms at Waterloo being extended aren't generally used for Reading trains.

Is it not the case that when the work is finished Reading trains will use platforms 20 - 23 which are long enough already?

 

[Feathers44]

Is it not the case that when the work is finished Reading trains will use platforms 20 - 23 which are long enough already?

Not this time around. That will be end 2018 I believe.

 

[Sean Emmett]

My understaning is that plats 20-24 will have 12 car capacity, not just 10. Happy to be corrected.

Does anyone have any pics to show how close to buffers the stopping points are, and how much space at country end before the starting signals?

 

[Ianno87]

My understaning is that plats 20-24 will have 12 car capacity, not just 10. Happy to be corrected.

Does anyone have any pics to show how close to buffers the stopping points are, and how much space at country end before the starting signals?

Yes, they are 12 car length.