Big Man / Sam Main - no charges

[Flamingo]

Drink, anybody?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Unless someone with authority comes out with a statement (and not some "source") - will still stick bt exactly what I saw, which was a young man being verbally abusive, obnoxious, threatening to the conductor on the train and not giving a damn about anyone apart from himself and a person who had decent mnorals saying enough is enough and ejecting the "chav" off the train.

That's the last thing I will say on this matter unless a formal statement is issued by someone in authority backing Mr Mains verion of events.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Unless someone with authority comes out with a statement . . . . .

That's the last thing I will say on this matter unless a formal statement is issued by someone in authority backing Mr Mains verion of events.

Well, I'll guess that you (and I) might be in for a very long wait, for I too see no prospect of such a statement forthcoming from anywhere.
Perhaps we should just sit back and accept Flamingo's kind offer of a strong cup of hot cocoa.

 

[90019]

 

[Flamingo]

 

[jon0844]

Drink, anybody?

Better not, it brings the vigilante out in me...

 

[Michael.Y]

I asked the barman for a double, but he gave me two singles....

 

[PaxVobiscum]

I asked the barman for a double, but he gave me two singles....

C'mon, get aff!

 

[bAzTNM]

Thought I was in the middle of this type of situation yesterday. Ticket guy was arguing with this obviously 18+ drug addict that he wasn't get a "childs fare". The amount of "you're a f*cking a*sehole!" the guy was taking was unbelievable. His equally drugged up pal just got him to pay the full fare.

 

[andykn]

So that is the story today. Does he explain why he got verbal and agressive with the guard? Probably not I presume... He knew he was travelling on the wrong ticket so instead of dealing with it he left it and was caught out

That story was from December. I'm just highlighting what many people seem to have missed repeatedly "Whatever else people think of him, Mr Main was not trying to fare dodge"

 

[34D]

Whatever else people think of him, Mr Main was not trying to fare dodge, he had requested the correct tickets but been given a wrong one:

"Sources close to the investigations have confirmed Mr Main's claim, made last week, that he had tried to buy two single tickets, one from Polmont to Edinburgh Park and another in the return direction (and using his student railcard), because he was unable to use his railcard for the outward journey before 10am.

Mr Main said the conductor at Polmont had instead given him two tickets for the same journey, one full fare and one at a discounted price using his railcard, but it was only when he got on the train that evening he realised he had two Polmont-to-Edinburgh Park tickets."

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...reveal-student-was-sold-wrong-ticket.16216486

If anyone has NFM11 (ie the prices in force at the time of the incident) could they check the fares re this please?

 

[Geezertronic]

That story was from December. I'm just highlighting what many people seem to have missed repeatedly "Whatever else people think of him, Mr Main was not trying to fare dodge"

Then it is difficult to understand why he a) didn't sort the issue out prior to boarding the train since he obviously knew beforehand, b) didn't approach the guard of the train to explain the issue and sort it out amicably, and c) got verbally abusive to the guard which put himself in the position of being asked to leave the train in question.

I don't know Main to realise he is an idiot for how he acted, I presume you do know him?

 

[LondonJohn]

If you honestly think that Mr Pollock is a vigilante then I suspect you need to gain some perspective in life.

As for your last comment, words fail me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


It didn't take me long to decide. The absence of any punishment would appear to provide a significant clue.

So what does the absence of punishment for Sam Main mean then ?

 

[DownSouth]

So what does the absence of punishment for Sam Main mean then ?

That there's no proof he did anything wrong other than swearing?

 

[jon0844]

So what does the absence of punishment for Sam Main mean then ?

Lack of evidence. Not in the public interest... a load of reasons. Just because neither party was taken to court, doesn't mean the incident didn't happen.

Legally, Mr Main might be innocent - but everyone who sees his behaviour in the video will make their own judgements about his personality (e.g. future employers) and that doesn't need to go to court!

There are loads of situations where no action is taken, and one great example was a TV cop show where the police stopped a car with boxes of class A in the boot. Bearing in mind the TV was filming them being stopped, questioned, searched and then the discovery - I was quite shocked when at the end it said the CPS didn't proceed. Clearly the TV footage wasn't admissible and they got off on a technicality. That's life.

Personally, I don't think Mr Main had any intent to defraud. He may well have got the wrong ticket for his return journey. Seemingly by his own admission (but the stories kept changing) he noticed before getting on the train, so he knew it wasn't valid (which contradicts him saying on the train that he has a ticket) - but even then, I can sympathise that when you have done nothing wrong yourself, you may get angry and not want to waste time or miss a train to change a ticket. However, the way you deal with the situation is still up to you. Being polite and explaining the situation would surely have prevented the outcome (i.e. showing both tickets, timed at the same time and from the same location etc). Being rude and aggressive means that, even if you are right, you've stepped over the mark and the original circumstances become immaterial. This is what Sam did, and he may live to regret a moment of madness (and that's me being nice and giving him the benefit of the doubt that it was a one-off situation).

 

[Michael.Y]

That there's no proof he did anything wrong other than swearing?

I hate to bring you back to the original video, but the guard is telling him he has the wrong ticket for the journey he is taking. As such, the guard has asked him to leave the train. He has refused. Not only is this fare evasion (unless proved otherwise - no-one has heard from these mythical ticket office staff he allegedly got two singles from when he asked for a return) but it's also trespass and disobeying the orders of train staff. Add that to abuse of officialdom and that's a fairly hefty list of infractions.

 

[yorkie]

That there's no proof he did anything wrong other than swearing?

Well, he has committed several byelaw offences, and that is quite clear from the video. I don't think we can say for certain he was or wasn't intentionally fare evading (a more serious matter under the Regulation of Railways Act), but that's really irrelevant. The discussion shouldn't be about a 'fare dodger' it should be about what he is clearly shown to be, and that is someone who is acting in an abusive, anti-social manner.

If someone had bought the wrong ticket and approached the guard at the first opportunity to explain the error and spoke reasonably to the guard, 99% of guards would be reasonable back. In a 'worst case' scenario you'd have to pay again but may be able to make a claim for a refund if the ticket was missold.

There is no excuse for the appaling behaviour by Main, and the clear byelaw offences he is seen committing.

I witnessed several people acting in an appaling way on the railway at Rochdale and Stalybridge stations today. Other passengers and rail staff should not have to put up with 'chavvish' or 'scummy' behaviour from such undesirable individuals, and anyone who is prepared to eject such individuals from trains should be applauded in my opinion.

 

[Anon Mouse]

like the group of 10 lads I had going one stop on my train who told me I was a "cheeky c**t" for trying to sell them a ticket!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The discussion shouldn't be about a 'fare dodger' it should be about what he is clearly shown to be, and that is someone who is acting in an abusive, anti-social behaviour. There is no excuse for the appalling behaviour by Main, and the clear byelaw offences he is seen committing.

Yorkie, I am totally with you on this matter. It is the general attitude of these "late teen/early twenties" people (male and female) that is seen "as normal" by society today. Just look at some of the incidents that occur in our towns and cities as a result of the "relaxed" drinking laws, that took no heed of the fact that many of these people do not seem to have the understanding to drink sensibly during the extra drinking periods that are now allowed under these laws.

 

[Greenback]

Yorkie, I am totally with you on this matter. It is the general attitude of these "late teen/early twenties" people (male and female) that is seen "as normal" by society today. Just look at some of the incidents that occur in our towns and cities as a result of the "relaxed" drinking laws, that took no heed of the fact that many of these people do not seem to have the understanding to drink sensibly during the extra drinking periods that are now allowed under these laws.

I agree with Yorkie too. Although I believe that cheap supermarket alcohol has had far more effect on the rise of public drunkenness and bad behaviour than the relaxation of licencing hours, that is a subject for another thread!

 

[Nonsense]

Yorkie, I am totally with you on this matter. It is the general attitude of these "late teen/early twenties" people (male and female) that is seen "as normal" by society today. Just look at some of the incidents that occur in our towns and cities as a result of the "relaxed" drinking laws, that took no heed of the fact that many of these people do not seem to have the understanding to drink sensibly during the extra drinking periods that are now allowed under these laws.

The relaxed drinking laws are enjoyed and appreciated by millions without incident, while towns and cities have always suffered the drink related problems you attribute to the new rules.

 

[andykn]

Then it is difficult to understand why he a) didn't sort the issue out prior to boarding the train since he obviously knew beforehand, b) didn't approach the guard of the train to explain the issue and sort it out amicably, and c) got verbally abusive to the guard which put himself in the position of being asked to leave the train in question.

I don't know Main to realise he is an idiot for how he acted, I presume you do know him?

I'm not sure what your point is? Are you trying to suggest that the story's wrong? That Main made up that story and the Newspaper backed him almost immediately? That he was trying to fare dodge?

After all the story says; "but it was only when he got on the train that evening he realised he had two Polmont-to-Edinburgh Park tickets"

Not everyone would get off their train and try and sort it out with station staff as their train departed. Especially as it wasn't that station who sold him the wrong ticket.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I hate to bring you back to the original video, but the guard is telling him he has the wrong ticket for the journey he is taking. As such, the guard has asked him to leave the train. He has refused. Not only is this fare evasion (unless proved otherwise - no-one has heard from these mythical ticket office staff he allegedly got two singles from when he asked for a return) but it's also trespass and disobeying the orders of train staff. Add that to abuse of officialdom and that's a fairly hefty list of infractions.

It is, but not paying for his fare really doesn't look like one of them:

"Sources close to the investigations have confirmed Mr Main's claim, made last week, that he had tried to buy two single tickets, one from Polmont to Edinburgh Park and another in the return direction"

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...reveal-student-was-sold-wrong-ticket.16216486
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The relaxed drinking laws are enjoyed and appreciated by millions without incident, while towns and cities have always suffered the drink related problems you attribute to the new rules.

Indeed, my Father tells of how he and his friends growing up in Newbury in the 50s never used to drink in the town centre at the weekends because it was full of farm workers and townies having drunken brawls with each other.

 

[Greenback]

I'm not sure what your point is? Are you trying to suggest that the story's wrong? That Main made up that story and the Newspaper backed him almost immediately? That he was trying to fare dodge?

After all the story says; "but it was only when he got on the train that evening he realised he had two Polmont-to-Edinburgh Park tickets"

Not everyone would get off their train and try and sort it out with station staff as their train departed. Especially as it wasn't that station who sold him the wrong ticket.

The passenger has a choice, though ideally they should check anything they buy and bring any error to the attention of the vendor at the time of purchase.

If not, and of course, no one is perfect, then in the case of railway tickets it will usually be a case of buying a new ticket and contacting the issuer for a refund of the tickets that have been incorrectly sold. They should really try and sort the situation out as soon as they have realised what has happened, whether that be on trian or at the station.

As Yorkie said, it's irrelevant if he was trying to evade a fare or not, his behaviour on the train was unacceptable.

 

[bnm]

it's irrelevant if he was trying to evade a fare or not, his behaviour on the train was unacceptable.

As was Mr Pollock's.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

As was Mr Pollock's.

on a scale of 1-10

Mr Main....Abusive, threatening, inconsiderate, obnoxious

Mr Pollock.... Ejecting the above from the Train

1 being ok and in line with someone with morals and attempting to do the right thing

10 out of order and goes aginst anything decent


So with the majority (on this forum at least)

Mr Main..about 9/10

Mr Pollock 2/3



like has previously been said regardless of whether Mr Main was sold an incorrect ticket or not (which I doubt) his actions were reprehensible and bang out of order, but as the state of the British Isles is in the state it is in people consider Mr Pollock the Criminal.

Unbelievable
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm not sure what your point is? Are you trying to suggest that the story's wrong? That Main made up that story and the Newspaper backed him almost immediately? That he was trying to fare dodge?

After all the story says; "but it was only when he got on the train that evening he realised he had two Polmont-to-Edinburgh Park tickets"

Not everyone would get off their train and try and sort it out with station staff as their train departed. Especially as it wasn't that station who sold him the wrong ticket.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


It is, but not paying for his fare really doesn't look like one of them:

"Sources close to the investigations have confirmed Mr Main's claim, made last week, that he had tried to buy two single tickets, one from Polmont to Edinburgh Park and another in the return direction"

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...reveal-student-was-sold-wrong-ticket.16216486
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Indeed, my Father tells of how he and his friends growing up in Newbury in the 50s never used to drink in the town centre at the weekends because it was full of farm workers and townies having drunken brawls with each other.

As I have said previously "Sources" mean absolutely nothing if it has been proved Mr Main DID get sold the wrong tickets lets hear an official announcement


Still waiting

 

[Geezertronic]

I'm not sure what your point is? Are you trying to suggest that the story's wrong? That Main made up that story and the Newspaper backed him almost immediately? That he was trying to fare dodge?

After all the story says; "but it was only when he got on the train that evening he realised he had two Polmont-to-Edinburgh Park tickets"

Not everyone would get off their train and try and sort it out with station staff as their train departed. Especially as it wasn't that station who sold him the wrong ticket.

It depends on what version of the story Main is telling these days.... there appear to have been quite a few versions if his previous Facebook posts and comments to the media are to be believed.

You never did tell us how you are related to Main did you?

 

[bnm]

Mr Main, swearing and obnoxious. Agreed. But I was always taught about sticks and stones.

Mr Pollock. Aggressive and physically violent. Don't Agree. His actions could've resulted in broken bones.

But hey, if others (particularly the rail staff on this forum) want to to condone untrained people wading in to a situation and using physical force then that's fine. Just be careful what you wish for....

You never did tell us how you are related to Main did you?

What a stupid petty comment. Anyone arguing against Mr Pollock's actions has to be related to Sam Main do they? I could just as easily ask how you are related to Mr Pollock. :roll:

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Mr Main, swearing and obnoxious. Agreed. But I was always taught about sticks and stones.

Mr Pollock. Aggressive and physically violent. Don't Agree. His actions could've resulted in broken bones.

But hey, if others (particularly the rail staff on this forum) want to to condone untrained people wading in to a situation and using physical force then that's fine. Just be careful what you wish for....



What a stupid petty comment. Anyone arguing against Mr Pollock's actions has to be related to Sam Main do they? I could just as easily ask how you are related to Mr Pollock. :roll:

Condone a member of the public protecting a member of staff...Yep

what you forget is we see people like Mr Main Day in Day out, we see ourselves the subject of verbal abuse on a regular basis and for the even more unlucky physical abuse, and what do we see on here, someone who is verbally abusive and threatening in his manner to our colleagues being protected by a member of the public who like so many people had had enough of being delayed/seeing members of staff/public being verbally/physically abused and did something about it!, The likes of Mr main are a stain on our society and how anyone can actually defend him is almost insulting to any hard working decent member of the public (or Rail staff) Mr Main was so out of order it is untrue and people defend him!!


It makes me ashamed to be a Citizen of Great Britain! As while people defend Mr Mains actions I will always be ashamed

 

[yorkie]

Mr Main, swearing and obnoxious. Agreed. But I was always taught about sticks and stones.

I don't think anyone would be taught such an incredibly outdated and wrong concept these days. I'm really not so sure it's that relevant anyway ('sticks and stones' refers more to name-calling/insults, not drunk & disorderly swearing and refusing to co-operate).

Mr Pollock. Aggressive and physically violent. Don't Agree. His actions could've resulted in broken bones.

Mr Main was resisting what appears to be reasonable force, and turns round with his fists clenched. It is Mr Main's actions that cause him to stumble. Mr Main then repeatedly launches himself into the train, he is not injured when he is first ejected from the train and he causes the injuries to himself by doing this.

 

[Geezertronic]

What a stupid petty comment. Anyone arguing against Mr Pollock's actions has to be related to Sam Main do they? I could just as easily ask how you are related to Mr Pollock. :roll:

Take a look in the mirror if you want stupid petty comments. Suggesting Mr Pollocks actions were "Aggressive and physically violent" are nothing short of absurd.

Would you say the same if Mr Pollock had come to the aid of an elderly gentleman who was having trouble with a young verbally agressive male? Oh, sorry Mr Pollock did come to the aid of an elderly gentleman who was having trouble with a young verbally agressive male...