thefab444
Established Member
If they'd done that, Swift would have accused The Guardian of pandering to the "nanny state".
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BBC Question Time 22-10-09
- Thread starter TrainBrain185
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If they'd done that, Swift would have accused The Guardian of pandering to the "nanny state".
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Swift-Deere
Member
If they'd done that, Swift would have accused The Guardian of pandering to the "nanny state".
Swift does think the guardian panders to the nanny state, i love winding up left-wingers!!!!!
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
Oh please show me this evidence! I would love to think that, but, sadly, it isn't true.
So can we presume that from your point of view, the rest of the world should comply to traditional UK values? Can they not comply to THEIR traditional values?
F***, is that what you are complaining about?
Oh look! swearing in your glorious daily mail!
I don't think it is. There are some reasonable steps, and then there is just going too far. A massive database with everyone and everyones details on it, to produce ID cards. Have you considered the implications? What if the next government to come in is the BNP - or something simililar to Germany in 1933? Think what they could do with your details. A holocaust would be so much more simple, if you could just print out a list of people you need to gas.
Please give evidence?
So does most other people! According to your values point, if most of the UK agree, does that make it right, and moral?
I thought it was pretty balanced. I couldn't see any Palestinian or Israeli support. However, due to the mess we made down there, I wouldn't condone a little Palestinian support.
Anti-UK? Most of the UK must be anti UK then. Is it a bad thing to disagree with decisions of the state? That sounds VERY much like Germany in 1933.
I can't even be bothered to reply to your anti west point.
Kneedown
Established Member
No! That would be why I've never claimed it!
I never implied that you had claimed it.
Lets get real here, i'm sure you would agree that it's highly unlikely that the crowd outside the BBC studio's were young Conservatives. Much more likely they were Labour/SWP/Communist/Green/Lib-Dem/Islamic Party. All reds at the end of the day.
EM2
Established Member
Surely by definition, Greens are not Reds? And by no stretch of the imagination, is Islam the same as Communism.
thefab444
Established Member
SWP and the British Communist Party are the only two you listed that you could call "reds".
Labour are practically in line with the Conservatives, and the Lib Dems are centre left. I see nothing in either the Labour or Lib Dem manifesto about overthrowing the free market...
Labour are practically in line with the Conservatives, and the Lib Dems are centre left. I see nothing in either the Labour or Lib Dem manifesto about overthrowing the free market...
Swift-Deere
Member
SWP and the British Communist Party are the only two you listed that you could call "reds".
Labour are practically in line with the Conservatives, and the Lib Dems are centre left. I see nothing in either the Labour or Lib Dem manifesto about overthrowing the free market...
Am Afraid i have to agree with your there which is a first
The lib Dem's, labour and the conservatives are supporters of the capitalist system (all to varying degrees) but offer a liberal approach on social policy (or at least parts of e.g. all are pro green policies, pro abortion and have a more liberal approach to crime) id say they were similar to the democrat party of the US on most issues (apart from health care and some other issues)
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Am not going to argue with you any more you have your opinions i have mine
Buts as this thread is going of topic am sure we will both agree that the BNP are dangerous and a threat and that Immigration is a good thing!!!
thefab444
Established Member
The BNP will become a threat if we keep saying they are. Best thing to do is just ignore them. If nobody listens to their crap, they'll soon stop peddling it.
TrainBrain185
Member
Immigration is a good thing as long as it equals emigration from the UK, the immigrant applicants that arrive MUST have professional qualifications and will be of benefit to the UK. NOT THE ILLEGAL ASYLUM SEEKING people awaiting across the English Channel in Calais who will be a total drain to UK services and finances.
The BNP must have touched a cord with those dopey Labour Politicians because they have admitted not controlling immigration properly and also it was allegedly done not to benefit the UK, but themselves.....oh how unjust!!
Despite peoples views about the BNP, they have to be allowed a place in Democracy because if not, we may as well be be a dictatorship nation....oh, we have seen a sample of that recently with no Referendum being allowed to the British public on the European Constitution.
In relation to all the previous comments on this thread and track records of our "clean cut and above board" Members of Parliament, is there ANYONE worth voting for in the next General Election?
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
Oh good. Can we deport some of our infestations who inhabit town centers clad in burberry?
Old Timer
Established Member
I think you need to qualify that.
Controlled immigration of those who contribute to the well being of the Country is fine, but not too far from where I live I can show you whole communities of Immigrants who contribute precisely nothing to this Country but simply exist as a charge on our local services.
The UK has become the destination of a whole echelon of economic Immigrants from all over Europe and Asia, who come here simply because of the benfits that they can obtain from our social security system.
Some of these people are happy to partake of our social largese, whilst actively comdemning the UK, seeking to undermine our values and beliefs by demanding our Laws are changed to reflect their own particular religious partisan creeds, and supporting those who seek to attack our safety and security.
In other ways, the UK is open to abuse, as in those who come here and then claim benefits for children domiciled abroad. Try this on in any other developed Country and see what happens ?
Is any of this fair ?
Those on the Left seem to think that the UK should be the sink estate and the provider of benefits to everyone in the World judging by the various comments one reads, and the criticisms of those who object to an open doors to all policy.
No other developed Country is as open to unnecessary Immigtration as the UK is.
For the truth about the real costs of Immigration, which cost the Country contrary to Labour lies and distortions, check out the House of Lords Committee Report, which Labour managed to supress.
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
I don't know OT, I would consider myself a democrat - on the left - but I too object to an enter all policy. Firstly those seeking asylum should be given it regardless of mental or social ability. Secondly, economic immigrants and others should be let in in proof of ability. For instance - doctors , nurses certainly! The NHS would be a mess if it wasn't for immigrants at the moment. However serious consideration should be taken for those wishing to enter for other reasons.
EM2
Established Member
This is an EU ruling. I lived in Ireland until fairly recently, and a lot of Polish people that I knew were legally entitled to claim what we would call Family Allowance for children that don't live in the country.
Old Timer
Established Member
Which is just madness, as it is all a one way street, once again the UK (and others) paying our taxes out to others who have not earned the right to receive them.
PS I have nothing to hold against most of the Eastern Europeans, but a sizable minority arrive here with no intention of working but simply to exist on our benefits system and spend their time involved in crime and begging. That we seem to be unable to either stop this form of immgration nor return these people says just how awfully the Country has become under EU membership.
Daily I struggle more and more to find positives to the EU and actually find less and less reason.
The latest form of EU taxation that will hit us, is the need to assist in funding the Pensions of the Eastern and Southern EU Countries who have no pension provision. Yet another drain on our scare finances at a time when our own Pensions are practically worthless, and daily our population of Pensioners living below the breadline increases as a result of the woefully awful bad economic management of the UK since 1997.
PS I have nothing to hold against most of the Eastern Europeans, but a sizable minority arrive here with no intention of working but simply to exist on our benefits system and spend their time involved in crime and begging. That we seem to be unable to either stop this form of immgration nor return these people says just how awfully the Country has become under EU membership.
Daily I struggle more and more to find positives to the EU and actually find less and less reason.
The latest form of EU taxation that will hit us, is the need to assist in funding the Pensions of the Eastern and Southern EU Countries who have no pension provision. Yet another drain on our scare finances at a time when our own Pensions are practically worthless, and daily our population of Pensioners living below the breadline increases as a result of the woefully awful bad economic management of the UK since 1997.
EM2
Established Member
But if you were in the same position, working in an EU Country with kids left back at home, you could do the same.
Old Timer
Established Member
If it were a level playing field then that would be fine, however this arrangement tends only to work in one direction, that is taking UK taxpayers money away to another Country. Unless you speak in the national language we cannot get employment outside the UK IRRESPECTIVE of the fact that technically this is against EU rules.
The Eastern European Countries bring little, if any economic benefit to either the EU or the UK and their net impact has been to suck out money to help their own economies grow at the cost to ours.
We have already seen EU money being used to create the infrastructure which is helping to transfer jobs away from the older EU Countries towards the Eastern European States, and the impact of this will be to lead employment from here to there because for all sorts of reasons it is cheaper to produce there, and the infrastructure to allow this to happen comes from us. WE are in effect PAYING to create the factories which will remove our very own jobs !
THE EU is simply a massive Socialist experiment to level the whole of Europe under the control of an unelected and undemocratic system.. As the years go by, more and more you can see how the EU becomes more Stalinist in its approach, even its own Auditors and Whistleblowers who report impropriety are denounced by the likes of Neil Kinnock (so much for Socialism, eh ?), dismissed from their jobs under the flimsiest of pretexes and then publicly vilified, and privately harrassed by the Police and finally made destitute by the EU machine.
Noone and nothing is allowed to stand in its way or to report anything about the massive corruption that is taking place with the full knowledge of the EU Commissioners.
If you thought the MPs expenses scandal was bad, then you should see what is going on in the EU.
Corruption and mismanagement is so rife that for the 11th year running no one will sign the EU accounts.
The Eastern European Countries bring little, if any economic benefit to either the EU or the UK and their net impact has been to suck out money to help their own economies grow at the cost to ours.
We have already seen EU money being used to create the infrastructure which is helping to transfer jobs away from the older EU Countries towards the Eastern European States, and the impact of this will be to lead employment from here to there because for all sorts of reasons it is cheaper to produce there, and the infrastructure to allow this to happen comes from us. WE are in effect PAYING to create the factories which will remove our very own jobs !
THE EU is simply a massive Socialist experiment to level the whole of Europe under the control of an unelected and undemocratic system.. As the years go by, more and more you can see how the EU becomes more Stalinist in its approach, even its own Auditors and Whistleblowers who report impropriety are denounced by the likes of Neil Kinnock (so much for Socialism, eh ?), dismissed from their jobs under the flimsiest of pretexes and then publicly vilified, and privately harrassed by the Police and finally made destitute by the EU machine.
Noone and nothing is allowed to stand in its way or to report anything about the massive corruption that is taking place with the full knowledge of the EU Commissioners.
If you thought the MPs expenses scandal was bad, then you should see what is going on in the EU.
Corruption and mismanagement is so rife that for the 11th year running no one will sign the EU accounts.
Kneedown
Established Member
Why not have a look at the Green party's manifesto, including the open door policy on immigration? I can assure you it's very red. Incidentally, they would build hundreds of houses, probably to house all these immigrants. Perhaps they should be renamed the "Concrete Party"!
Islam isn't the same as communism i agree. It's a whole lot worse!
Swift-Deere
Member
Do you actually know any muslims? have you ever read the Koran? Just because a small minority of Muslims are terrorists you think there all out to course trouble when this clearly is not the case just because the IRA were catholic does that make all Catholics terrorists no, next time think before writing something stupid, ignorant and racist like that!!!
On the Subject of greens though, they are an urban based party with urban based supporters and mentality so aren't really green in the countryside/rural/agricultural sense!!!
Kneedown
Established Member
The last report i saw said that immigration benefits the UK economy by £20million pa. On the other hand the same report stated that the cost of immigration is £26million pa.
Now i'm no mathematician, but even i can see that is a deficit of £6mil. So how is that good?
thefab444
Established Member
Didn't think I'd ever say this, but, well said sir!
Swift-Deere
Member
There are social and cultural benefits such as new foods ie Indian and chinese cuisine is a major part of the modern UK diet, new ways of looking at things for example in london there is basicly everyone of the worlds culture in the city so you can try new foods and lifestyles if you wish, also it add diversity into the commuity in terms of people and buildings i.e. china town in Liverpool!!!
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I never thought id be saying this either it seems we agree on something lol
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Kneedown
Established Member
Yep!
No, and unless you speak one of the islamic languages then neither have you as, and this comes from an Imam who i used to know very well, it is impossible to translate the Koran accurately into English.
I've never said all Muslims are terrorists, read the post. On the other hand it's more than a small minority, and even more so have fundamentalist sympathies.
What is truly dangerous though is the rise of Islam in this country and how it is indulged by the media at the expense of our own Christian beliefs.
More and more people are becoming disaffected by the church and indeed Christian values as a whole (upon which our laws are based) but Islam is on the rise to fill the void. Can only be a recipe for disaster and the face of the nation changed forever.
I refer you to my above answer. Might i respectfully suggest you read posts carefully and consider all the contexts before wading in with both barrels.
Swift-Deere
Member
From your reply here it seem that you don't seem to have a problem with muslims ie you knew an imam well etc so why do your other post seen so anti Islam and immigration?
Kneedown
Established Member
I am anti Islam, but that doesn't mean i have an inherent dislike of those who follow it.
I'm also anti Immigration, but again, that doesn't mean i have a hatred of immigrants.
My hatred is with the system that has imposed so called "Multiculturalism" on us on such a vast scale, changing the face of the country, without the consent of the public. I've always believed that the world is big enough for everyone, but the UK isn't. I also believe that as long as we are recruiting the cream of the crop from the third world to fill in positions here, then those third world countries are losing out and will never develop. How can they if we nick all their best and most talented people? We recruit a Doctor from Nigeria and a few Britons might get treatment for their bunions a little quicker, but many children in Nigeria will die from Maleria or other nasties for the want of that Doctor.
If that is a racist veiwpoint then i'm a racist and unashamed of it!
EM2
Established Member
That's surely the fault of the Christian churches? It's not the fault of Islam if Christians are disillusioned with their own religion, while Muslims are not.
Because while those people are here, they earn a much higher wage than they would in their own country. A great number of them either send money home to their family, to give their children a better chance, so that they can go to school and learn or they use the experience and knowledge they gain while working here to teach and train others when they return home.
Old Timer
Established Member
With respect Swift-Deere, it is you who rather started to change the tone of the thread in my view.
Kneedown has made a number of pertinent points of the kind that genuinely concern the great majority of people in the UK.
Despite what the LEFT may like to think, you are actually a small minority voice and in no way do you even get near to representing the majority voice of this Country.
From next year the minority voice will be even smaller, although more vocal no doubt, but at least it will not have the BBC to loudhail for it, because one thing I DO know is that in its present shape the BBC is dead after the next GE as a result of its extreme Left Wing bias which can be seen in its programming, and in the appointment of many of its senior staff. This cull which could have been avoided if only the BBC had stuck to its Charter will at least clear out the tiresome, and hopefully deny airtime to Champagne Socialists such as Toynebee whose grasp of international economics is worse than that of an idealistic teenager.
However back on topic, accusations of racism and intolerance reflect badly upon those who choose to make them, when in actual fact that was never the intent.
The usual "Do you know any XXXX" is simply tiresome. The answer is "Yes we do" hence the comments we make.
It may have escaped you but in Birmingham there were STREET PARTIES the evening of 9/11, and again there were celebrations after the London Underground bombings.
Religious "leaders" throughout the UK were very reticient in coming forward to condemn, in fact their silence in the first days after was quite deafening, and then when comment DID come it was to defend the actions rather than to condemn the terrorism.
That is something worth contrasting with the statements made in the US by American Muslim leaders who, within hours, were condeming the attriocities and declaring it un-Islamic.
The latest shootings in the US Military base have received similar statements.
Somehow I fail to see that happening here, especially when at least one "Leader" in the West Midlands still openly denies that Muslims were involved, and still refuses to condemn.
It is very clear that the vast majority of Muslims in the UK are happy to separate themselves from the indigenous population, seeking favoured taxation treatment, and the imposition of Sharia Law into their areas and in the long term assimilation of Shariah Law into the UK Constitution, something which is welcomed by the Left but certainly not by any educated Muslim women, who will be reduced to serfs and chattels were this to ever happen.
Swift-Deere
Member
Am certainty not left by no means, espesually if you look at some of my other posts on thread and other threads and i have to say i think you have the BBC down to a Tee (the British bolshevik corporation)
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
Can someone explain to me how the BBC is left-biast?
Old Timer
Established Member
During the week of the Labour Conference, the BBC interviewed only those sympathetic to the current Labour Government.
They have never made any secret to the fact of their own Political leaning in respect of the Middle East.
During the Conservative Party Conference, they did not bring a single Conservative sympathiser to interview, they simply brought out those who were opposed to the Conservatives and thus made denigratory comments about Conservative Policies.
When Brown threw a wobbly on TV the BBC tried to suppress that news, as it did the news that Harman had been involved in a car collision whilst driving and using a mobile phone.
An interview with Boris Johnson, and later with David Cameron focussed on irrelevancies such as what they did at University and were they rich ! For Gods sake this comes from BBC employees who abuse the tax system to agrandish themselves, whilst at the same time they pour vitriol on the fact that Cameron went to Eton, when most of them come from privileged backgrounds and went to minor public schools as did most of the Labour Governmnet cabinet !
In actual fact there are proportionally more Conservative MPs from the State sector than Labour MPs.
If you want to know more about BBC bias, I commend the Guido Fawkes blog to you. He is non-partisan, and I am sure you will find his posts both educational as well as amusing. Do prepare to be angered though by the various examples of greed and Political expedience shown.
http://order-order.com/
They have never made any secret to the fact of their own Political leaning in respect of the Middle East.
During the Conservative Party Conference, they did not bring a single Conservative sympathiser to interview, they simply brought out those who were opposed to the Conservatives and thus made denigratory comments about Conservative Policies.
When Brown threw a wobbly on TV the BBC tried to suppress that news, as it did the news that Harman had been involved in a car collision whilst driving and using a mobile phone.
An interview with Boris Johnson, and later with David Cameron focussed on irrelevancies such as what they did at University and were they rich ! For Gods sake this comes from BBC employees who abuse the tax system to agrandish themselves, whilst at the same time they pour vitriol on the fact that Cameron went to Eton, when most of them come from privileged backgrounds and went to minor public schools as did most of the Labour Governmnet cabinet !
In actual fact there are proportionally more Conservative MPs from the State sector than Labour MPs.
If you want to know more about BBC bias, I commend the Guido Fawkes blog to you. He is non-partisan, and I am sure you will find his posts both educational as well as amusing. Do prepare to be angered though by the various examples of greed and Political expedience shown.
http://order-order.com/
Swift-Deere
Member
Excessive coverage of climate change
anti israel
anti-US (not really the case now because of Obama but was when bush was in office)
Very PC most shows have more [stereotypical]gays or ethinic minoritys (i.e. a show set in a rural villege may feature ethinic minoritys which would not be the case in real life)
OT's original points
even Adrew Marr admited it:The BBC is not impartial or neutral. It's a publicly funded, urban organisation with an abnormally large number of young people, ethnic minorities and gay people. It has a liberal bias not so much a party-political bias. It is better expressed as a cultural liberal bias".
Dont get me wrong i do watch the BBC and some off its programs are good but if it charges a licence fee it should be impartial
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