Bath to Conwy - tight change at Newport.

[seagull]

Yes, quite silly prices, and further prices rises recently. 4.15 a pint for me now. That's quite ludicrous for the pub it is, in the location it is.

O/T but does anyone know the reason the establishment at LLJ is known as "The Killer"? Always been curious.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

O/T but does anyone know the reason the establishment at LLJ is known as "The Killer"? Always been curious.

Because people go there to kill time whilst waiting for their train or connections. Hence the "killer"

 

[Llandudno]

Yes, quite silly prices, and further prices rises recently. 4.15 a pint for me now. That's quite ludicrous for the pub it is, in the location it is.

Unfortunately apart from Wetherspoons or the Carlton in Llandudno , it’s difficult to find a pint for under £4 anywhere in Llandudno/Conwy…

 

[seagull]

Because people go there to kill time whilst waiting for their train or connections. Hence the "killer"

Makes perfect sense now.

 

[Parallel]

I empathise with the tight connections - I used to occasionally travel from Westbury or Trowbridge to Aberystwyth, and had a 5 minute connection at Newport - and about a 7 minute connection at Shrewsbury. I usually had some luggage and the Holyhead train would usually arrive on Platform 3 at Shrewsbury, due to Platform 4 already being occupied.

After a couple of times of missed connections, I gave up and travelled an hour earlier, giving myself half an hour at Newport and Shrewsbury which was a lot better - this was using flexible tickets though, which weren’t too badly priced on this route at the time.

 

[Envoy]

Just so you're aware, new.trainsplit.com still allows extended connection times at specific stations:

Thanks for that - I did not spot the option.

 

[The exile]

What if the trains were on time but the connection time was not enough? Thinking of situations where services may stop at the far end of platforms away from the steps (like they often do at Newport, Cardiff and Bristol Temple meads as examples) - if you have luggage with you too or are not very mobile then that could easily make you miss a short connection. I guess that would be on the passenger then if there were no actual delays?

Or indeed what happens if at both sets of stairs to the subway there is such a crowd of people coming the other way that what would have been “5 minutes for a connection that takes 4” ( remembering of course that “doors can be locked up to 49 seconds before departure) into “I had 5 minutes for my connection; the train was 28 seconds late - so still technically on time, I couldn’t fight my way through the crowds so arrived with 39 seconds to spare to find the doors locked. Each individual element happens so frequently that combinations of enough of them to cause a problem must also be common!

 

[Watershed]

What if the trains were on time but the connection time was not enough? Thinking of situations where services may stop at the far end of platforms away from the steps (like they often do at Newport, Cardiff and Bristol Temple meads as examples) - if you have luggage with you too or are not very mobile then that could easily make you miss a short connection. I guess that would be on the passenger then if there were no actual delays?

I don't think so. Obviously we are getting into the murky territory of implied terms here, but itineraries offered should be fundamentally 'doable'. Delays occasioned within the railway's areas of responsibility (e.g. getting onto the platform and the train, changing between trains) all fall under Delay Repay.

There are a number of stations where even the average person would struggle to make a connection, due to tight minimum connection times. Typically this happens where a MCT designed for a cross-platform etc. connection is applied in an unintended manner.

 

[Envoy]

An odd thing that happens at Newport is that the journey planners - such as Nationalrail.co.uk - tell everybody heading west from England via the Severn Tunnel or Severnside line - to change at Newport for west Wales. So, for example, if you put in for a journey from PAD to Carmarthen, you are told to get off the GWR IET at Newport and transfer to a train coming off The Marches line (Hereford route). Now, the odds are that these trains are usually 2 or 3 coaches and hence often packed. The last thing they need is loads of people transferring at Newport. Of course, anybody with any sense would stay on the (usually 9 or 10 coaches) IET to Swansea and then transfer (on the flat) when the Manchester to west Wales train arrives. Many people don't do this because they are afraid they will be fined a fare supplement for not following the itinerary. Even those on trains that terminate at Cardiff would surely be better off staying on those trains to Cardiff and then transferring to a TfW train heading west.

 

[Haywain]

There are a number of stations where even the average person would struggle to make a connection, due to tight minimum connection times. Typically this happens where a MCT designed for a cross-platform etc. connection is applied in an unintended manner.

There are also very many stations where the average person will consider the connection time to be far too long, because they are generally designed to allow a little old lady with a giant suitcase to be able to make the change.

 

[Watershed]

There are also very many stations where the average person will consider the connection time to be far too long, because they are generally designed to allow a little old lady with a giant suitcase to be able to make the change.

Indeed. Cross-London connectional allowances do seem rather excessive - I can't really think of a London Terminal where you'd have a walk longer than that from platform 18 to 9E at Edinburgh, which 'only' has a 10 minute allowance.

 

[Starmill]

Connection times between Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Victoria are too long if you intend to use the tram service, assuming that it's running normally when you travel. However, in most cases this won't be included in the fare, so if you wanted to avoid paying extra, you'd have to use the relatively unreliable free bus, or walk. Personally I don't think there's enough time for someone to walk comfortably unless they know the way already and are quick on their feet.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Connection times between Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Victoria are too long if you intend to use the tram service, assuming that it's running normally when you travel. However, in most cases this won't be included in the fare, so if you wanted to avoid paying extra, you'd have to use the relatively unreliable free bus, or walk. Personally I don't think there's enough time for someone to walk comfortably unless they know the way already and are quick on their feet.

Isn't there normally a once-an-hour heavy rail service between the two stations, part of TPE's Manchester Airport->York/Redcar offering, takes 11 minutes (Mon-Sat)?

 

[Starmill]

Isn't there normally a once-an-hour heavy rail service between the two stations, part of TPE's Manchester Airport->York/Redcar offering, takes 11 minutes (Mon-Sat)?

Yes, but if that were convenient to your journey the question of how to make the transfer wouldn't arise in the first place.

It's so infrequent though it's little use. It's more likely that you'd get a good connection to change at Salford Crescent

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Just pointing out that there are other options when interchanging between Piccadilly and Victoria stations in Manchester than walking, the free bus, or paying for the Metrolink (or indeed a taxi).

 

[Starmill]

Just pointing out that there are other options when interchanging between Piccadilly and Victoria stations in Manchester than walking, the free bus, or paying for the Metrolink (or indeed a taxi).

There are indeed plenty of options to avoid the connection times, yes.

 

[trainophile]

How much time do journey planners allow for MAN-MCV connections, and is it the same in both directions?

 

[Watershed]

How much time do journey planners allow for MAN-MCV connections

10 minutes MCT at Piccadilly + 22 minutes "transfer" (i.e. make your own way) + 5 mins MCT at Victoria. Total 37 minutes.

I've done it in 15 minutes from train to train, but you've got to know exactly where you're going, be prepared to walk very fast and have some luck to make that!

is it the same in both directions?

Yes. I can't think of any connections where it isn't, although there are some (cross-London) where the mode/duration of transfer varies by the time you commence, so it might be quicker doing it at 1pm than 10pm.

 

[mmh]

10 minutes MCT at Piccadilly + 22 minutes "transfer" (i.e. make your own way) + 5 mins MCT at Victoria. Total 37 minutes.

I've done it in 15 minutes from train to train, but you've got to know exactly where you're going, be prepared to walk very fast and have some luck to make that!

Ouch, that's pretty awful. I know Manchester very well, and I can walk very fast, but I'd still not want an official connection that tight.

 

[trainophile]

Thanks for the detailed info. We've got that very connection shortly but to my relief I've just checked my tickets and we've got an hour and 23 minutes. Better not diverge off route until we get to Picc, might be a Greggs instead of a Wetherspoons!

 

[island]

Go to the pub outside LLJ for that hour, and the Delay Repay pays for your pint?

That would be a breach of the terms of an advance ticket

 

[Bletchleyite]

That would be a breach of the terms of an advance ticket

That entered my mind but in practice nobody cares. LLJ is not gated anyway.