Bath to Conwy - tight change at Newport.

[Envoy]

I see that an advance ticket can be purchased for Bath to Conwy with 1 change at Newport. Now, the train from Bath arrives Newport at 11.32 (P2) and the one for Conwy (P4) leaves at 11.36. That is rather tight - especially as it involves running over the bridge rather than just moving across the island platform.

1.What happen if the connection is missed? Should one just take the next train going N up The Marches to Shrewsbury or Crewe for a connection - even though it is an ‘Advance’ fare?

2. Would GWR object if the passenger took an earlier departure from Bath with a change at Temple Meads/ or/ Parkway in order to allow more time at Newport for the change?

The non advance fare is a whopping £57 and buying a ticket from Bath to Newport is around £12 and then one ‘Advance’ to Conwy is £29. (Yes, TfW really do charge £3 more to go from Newport than Bath - presumably because of competition from XC going via Birmingham from Bristol).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I see that an advance ticket can be purchased for Bath to Conwy with 1 change at Newport. Now, the train from Bath arrives Newport at 11.32 (P2) and the one for Conwy (P4) leaves at 11.36. That is rather tight - especially as it involves running over the bridge rather than just moving across the island platform.

1.What happen if the connection is missed? Should one just take the next train going N up The Marches to Shrewsbury or Crewe for a connection - even though it is an ‘Advance’ fare?

2. Would GWR object if the passenger took an earlier departure from Bath with a change at Temple Meads/ or/ Parkway in order to allow more time at Newport for the change?

The non advance fare is a whopping £57 and buying a ticket from Bath to Newport is around £12 and then one ‘Advance’ to Conwy is £29. (Yes, TfW really do charge £3 more to go from Newport than Bath - presumably because of competition from XC going via Birmingham from Bristol).

If you miss a connection on an Advance you are entitled to take the next train of the same TOC. Does not so far as I know have to be a through train.

No, unfortunately you cannot travel earlier if you have a reservation for the GWR, which you probably will.

You could use Trainsplit to book, it allows you to increase the layover?

 

[sonic2009]

The train from Bath Spa actually arrives at 1131 and the service to Holyhead departs at 1136 - Newport has a 5 minute minimum connection time, so this is why you will be offered an itinerary.

 

[trainophile]

Five minutes is optimistic at Newport if you have sufficient luggage (or a buggy/wheelchair) to need to use the lifts. I'm always worried when I get a connection there that's less than at least 10 minutes.

 

[Class800]

Has the OP purchased ticket yet? If not. check what the next connection would be if missed. If it's an issue, see if there's anyway you can tweak the itinerary before booking - and hope it doesn't change price much - e.g. selecting option for additional connection time

 

[Watershed]

I see that an advance ticket can be purchased for Bath to Conwy with 1 change at Newport. Now, the train from Bath arrives Newport at 11.32 (P2) and the one for Conwy (P4) leaves at 11.36. That is rather tight - especially as it involves running over the bridge rather than just moving across the island platform.

It wouldn't be offered on journey planners if it were a 4 minute connection, as the minimum connection time at Newport is 5 minutes. But the train arrives at 11.31 so it meets that minimum.

1.What happen if the connection is missed? Should one just take the next train going N up The Marches to Shrewsbury or Crewe for a connection - even though it is an ‘Advance’ fare?

Advance tickets are ordinarily fixed to a particular itinerary, but you if you miss a connection, you can take the next available service of the same operator as originally booked.

2. Would GWR object if the passenger took an earlier departure from Bath with a change at Temple Meads/ or/ Parkway in order to allow more time at Newport for the change?

If you have been issued with a seat reservation, even if a counted place (coach * seat **) - or if you have an e-ticket where the entire itinerary is shown on the ticket - then staff would know what your booked service is. Therefore you would have to stick to that, although there is no harm in getting there early and asking the guard of an earlier train if they're OK with you taking their train.

Alternatively you could book with TrainSplit and use the advanced search options to require a higher-than-minimum interchange time.

Bear in mind that if you miss the connection you would be able to claim Delay Repay (assuming it causes you to arrive 15+ mins late) so if you aren't too fussed about arriving at that particular time, you could simply book the tight connection and get the DR if you miss it.

 

[Class800]

It wouldn't be offered on journey planners if it were a 4 minute connection, as the minimum connection time at Newport is 5 minutes. But the train arrives at 11.31 so it meets that minimum.


Advance tickets are ordinarily fixed to a particular itinerary, but you if you miss a connection, you can take the next available service of the same operator as originally booked.


If you have been issued with a seat reservation, even if a counted place (coach * seat **) - or if you have an e-ticket where the entire itinerary is shown on the ticket - then staff would know what your booked service is. Therefore you would have to stick to that, although there is no harm in getting there early and asking the guard of an earlier train if they're OK with you taking their train.

Alternatively you could book with TrainSplit and use the advanced search options to require a higher-than-minimum interchange time.

Bear in mind that if you miss the connection you would be able to claim Delay Repay (assuming it causes you to arrive 15+ mins late) so if you aren't too fussed about arriving at that particular time, you could simply book the tight connection and get the DR if you miss it.

There are people who if not in a rush and who use a booking site that allows seat selection would choose a carriage as far from the footbridge as possible to maximise chance of a DR situation - but I won't comment one way or the other on that!

 

[Envoy]

Many thanks everyone for your responses. The ticket has not been booked - hence checking first with the experts on this forum. It is not for me but someone else and I needed to be able to give correct advice. It is a great pity that the connection is not a simply transfer across the island platform at Newport. I will check the next available options for travelling north from Newport to Conwy should the connection be missed and inform of the delay repay. Would the delay repay have to come from GWR or TfW - or is it simply which ever service was late?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Many thanks everyone for your responses. The ticket has not been booked - hence checking first with the experts on this forum. It is not for me but someone else and I needed to be able to give correct advice. It is a great pity that the connection is not a simply transfer across the island platform at Newport. I will check the next available options for travelling north from Newport to Conwy should the connection be missed and inform of the delay repay. Would the delay repay have to come from GWR or TfW - or is it simply which ever service was late?

DR comes from the TOC that first caused the delay to your journey to go over the threshold.

 

[Envoy]

DR comes from the TOC that first caused the delay to your journey to go over the threshold.

Many thanks for quick response.

 

[Class800]

The OP has not posted an intended travel date - I am unable to replicate the itinerary taking a date in 2 weeks time.

As far as I can tell, the intended itinerary is

Bath Spa 10.36
Newport (South Wales) 11.31
Newport (South Wales) 11.36
Llandudno Junction 15.27

But there is no Conwy stop in the data. Llandudno Junction would usually be an adequate substitute, depending exactly where you're going.

Or to go to Conwy itself

Bath Spa 10.36
Newport (South Wales) 11.31
Newport (South Wales) 12.09
Shrewsbury 13.57
Shrewbury 14.26
Conwy 16.23

Is what I am getting.

But for an advance ticket you need to follow the timings provided with the booking unless there is a cancellation or missed connection in which case take next train of same company.

Anyone disagree re the timetable data?

 

[WelshBluebird]

DR comes from the TOC that first caused the delay to your journey to go over the threshold.

What if the trains were on time but the connection time was not enough? Thinking of situations where services may stop at the far end of platforms away from the steps (like they often do at Newport, Cardiff and Bristol Temple meads as examples) - if you have luggage with you too or are not very mobile then that could easily make you miss a short connection. I guess that would be on the passenger then if there were no actual delays?

 

[Bletchleyite]

What if the trains were on time but the connection time was not enough? Thinking of situations where services may stop at the far end of platforms away from the steps (like they often do at Newport, Cardiff and Bristol Temple meads as examples) - if you have luggage with you too or are not very mobile then that could easily make you miss a short connection. I guess that would be on the passenger then if there were no actual delays?

Yes, it is up to the passenger to specify a longer connection and/or request assistance if they feel this is needed. Delay Repay only applies if a train was delayed, cancelled or the person could not physically board e.g. because it was full and standing, a member of staff instructed them not to or the required assistance was not provided.

To be honest I find 5 minute connections stressful even as an able bodied person capable of shifting pretty quickly, and think in most cases it should be minimum 10, and I'd go as far as 15 at somewhere like New St, but that's one for another (speculative) thread.

 

[Hadders]

I wouldn’t support increasing the minimum connection time as it would greatly extend many journeys.

Larger stations do have an increased connection time, for example Kings Cross, Euston, Paddington etc are 15 minutes. Birmingham New Street is 12 minutes.

 

[Class800]

Yes, it is up to the passenger to specify a longer connection and/or request assistance if they feel this is needed. Delay Repay only applies if a train was delayed, cancelled or the person could not physically board e.g. because it was full and standing, a member of staff instructed them not to or the required assistance was not provided.

To be honest I find 5 minute connections stressful even as an able bodied person capable of shifting pretty quickly, and think in most cases it should be minimum 10, and I'd go as far as 15 at somewhere like New St, but that's one for another (speculative) thread.

But while DR is maybe not on offer, I would say any reasonable TOC would put passenger on the next train if a tight connection missed and passenger was making an effort to get there

 

[trainophile]

Yes with five minutes your inbound train only needs to be one minute late, which is within the allowance to avoid penalty I believe, and if you've got stairs and a bridge it becomes extremely tight, unless you're Usain Bolt!

Then you get the opposite effect at e.g. Crewe, which has a 10 minute minimum connection time, meaning that arriving at **28 on an island platform doesn't give you an Advance connection off the MAN-bound TfW onto the **31 which is ten seconds cross platform, and makes you wait half an hour in the case of LNWR Liverpool trains.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes with five minutes your inbound train only needs to be one minute late, which is within the allowance to avoid penalty I believe, and if you've got stairs and a bridge it becomes extremely tight, unless you're Usain Bolt!

Then you get the opposite effect at e.g. Crewe, which has a 10 minute minimum connection time, meaning that arriving at **28 on an island platform doesn't give you an Advance connection off the MAN-bound TfW onto the **31 which is ten seconds cross platform, and makes you wait half an hour in the case of LNWR Liverpool trains.

It would help if the system took account of timetabled times. There are connections which are almost guaranteed because not to honour them is going to cause considerable delay to other trains and they can't not be same platform, e.g. from the xx16 semifast off Euston onto the Southern (when it runs) at Leighton, and those could be as little as one minute because they'll either miss dramatically or they won't.

 

[trainophile]

Today we've got a change at Newport, should arrive 1101 for the 1114 Penzance, inbound Hereford already 9 late at Flint, eta 5 late HFD but we all know how likely that is. Feel my stress level building already and we haven't left for the station yet. Getting too old for mad dashes up long flights of stairs. I wonder if they'd let us get the 0954 on our Advance tickets.

 

[Class800]

Today we've got a change at Newport, should arrive 1101 for the 1114 Penzance, inbound Hereford already 9 late at Flint, eta 5 late HFD but we all know how likely that is. Feel my stress level building already and we haven't left for the station yet. Getting too old for mad dashes up long flights of stairs. I wonder if they'd let us get the 0954 on our Advance tickets.

On advance tickets you should start your journey as scheduled, and address any delays as they arise

 

[185143]

If you miss a connection on an Advance you are entitled to take the next train of the same TOC. Does not so far as I know have to be a through train.

No, unfortunately you cannot travel earlier if you have a reservation for the GWR, which you probably will.

You could use Trainsplit to book, it allows you to increase the layover?

I've done exactly that at Newport in the past, though admittedly it was mostly to allow time to visit the local 'Spoons for some lunch mid journey!

 

[sonic2009]

Today we've got a change at Newport, should arrive 1101 for the 1114 Penzance, inbound Hereford already 9 late at Flint, eta 5 late HFD but we all know how likely that is. Feel my stress level building already and we haven't left for the station yet. Getting too old for mad dashes up long flights of stairs. I wonder if they'd let us get the 0954 on our Advance tickets.

Cross Platform change from 2 to 3 so no stairs involved. But unless there is an issue with the reporting on the service, looks like your Hereford-Newport train hasn't left Wrexham General. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P21318/2022-03-03#allox_id=1

 

[Haywain]

Cross Platform change from 2 to 3 so no stairs involved. But unless there is an issue with the reporting on the service, looks like your Hereford-Newport train hasn't left Wrexham General. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P21318/2022-03-03#allox_id=1

It's 5 minutes late at Gobowen.

 

[1955LR]

It's 5 minutes late at Gobowen.

3 mins late leaving Shrewsbury

 

[trainophile]

On arrival at Hereford station it was showing on time so all is well. Also the cross platform change makes all the difference. Thanks everyone.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

I see that an advance ticket can be purchased for Bath to Conwy with 1 change at Newport. Now, the train from Bath arrives Newport at 11.32 (P2) and the one for Conwy (P4) leaves at 11.36. That is rather tight - especially as it involves running over the bridge rather than just moving across the island platform.

1.What happen if the connection is missed? Should one just take the next train going N up The Marches to Shrewsbury or Crewe for a connection - even though it is an ‘Advance’ fare?

2. Would GWR object if the passenger took an earlier departure from Bath with a change at Temple Meads/ or/ Parkway in order to allow more time at Newport for the change?

The non advance fare is a whopping £57 and buying a ticket from Bath to Newport is around £12 and then one ‘Advance’ to Conwy is £29. (Yes, TfW really do charge £3 more to go from Newport than Bath - presumably because of competition from XC going via Birmingham from Bristol).

The 11.36 from Newport does not stop at Conwy, so you would need to walk/ taxi from Llandudno Junction or wait the best part of an hour at Llandudno Junction for the 3 minute journey to Conwy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 11.36 from Newport does not stop at Conwy, so you would need to walk/ taxi from Llandudno Junction or wait the best part of an hour at Llandudno Junction for the 3 minute journey to Conwy.

Go to the pub outside LLJ for that hour, and the Delay Repay pays for your pint?

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Go to the pub outside LLJ for that hour, and the Delay Repay pays for your pint?

Have you seen the prices in the killer these days, would need a 100% delay replay for an hours worth of beer. Grab some cans from asda next door and walk across the bridge

 

[Envoy]

On train split, the newer version does not offer the ability to increase ‘layover’ time at change stations - only the ‘classic’ site allows that option. By increasing it to 10 minutes, it gives a layover at NWP of 1 hour 6 minutes so that is out. Looks like best to go with the 4 minute change time and be aware of how to go north (via Marches) if connection not made.

Many thanks for all your responses.

 

[mmh]

Have you seen the prices in the killer these days, would need a 100% delay replay for an hours worth of beer. Grab some cans from asda next door and walk across the bridge

Yes, quite silly prices, and further prices rises recently. 4.15 a pint for me now. That's quite ludicrous for the pub it is, in the location it is.

 

[Starmill]

On train split, the newer version does not offer the ability to increase ‘layover’ time at change stations - only the ‘classic’ site allows that option. By increasing it to 10 minutes, it gives a layover at NWP of 1 hour 6 minutes so that is out. Looks like best to go with the 4 minute change time and be aware of how to go north (via Marches) if connection not made.

Many thanks for all your responses.

Just so you're aware, new.trainsplit.com still allows extended connection times at specific stations: