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Avanti West Coast via Settle (for WCML Bridge replacement next January?)

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AndrewE

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None of thise actually driving are familiar with the route, they are all being conducted.
but a good point was made upthread that the actual drivers don't know the road (obviously) and the conductors don't know the braking behaviour of the Everos - plus there is the time for communication between the two, with both - initially at least - being cautious "just in case."

I had hoped that with growing familiarity they would start to run the trains harder...
 
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D6130

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None of thise actuslly driving are familiar with the route, they are all being conducted.
When I travelled yesterday there was no evidence of overcautious driving. The drivers in both directions drove exactly to the line speeds where possible - as verified by members of the Railway Performance Society travelling on the trains. The only thing that does lose a little time leaving Carlisle in the Up direction is the necessity to perform a running brake test on the (approximately) 1 in 120 rising gradient at Scotby....but this can be recovered using the pathing time approaching Preston. (I signed and drove over the Settle-Carlisle line for twenty years from 1992 to 2012....but never had the opportunity to learn Hellifield-Blackburn-Preston, unlike some of my more senior colleagues).

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but a good point was made upthread that the actual drivers don't know the road (obviously) and the conductors don't know the braking behaviour of the Everos - plus there is the time for communication between the two, with both - initially at least - being cautious "just in case."

I had hoped that with growing familiarity they would start to run the trains harder...
With a 70 maximum from Preston to Blackburn, 45 from there to Hellifield and 60 onwards to Carlisle, they couldn't really run them much harder! ;)
 

AndrewE

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When I travelled yesterday there was no evidence of overcautious driving. The drivers in both directions drove exactly to the line speeds where possible - as verified by members of the Railway Performance Society travelling on the trains. The only thing that does lose a little time leaving Carlisle in the Up direction is the necessity to perform a running brake test on the (approximately) 1 in 120 rising gradient at Scotby....but this can be recovered using the pathing time approaching Preston. (I signed and drove over the Settle-Carlisle line for twenty years from 1992 to 2012....but never had the opportunity to learn Hellifield-Blackburn-Preston, unlike some of my more senior colleagues).

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With a 70 maximum from Preston to Blackburn, 45 from there to Hellifield and 60 onwards to Carlisle, they couldn't really run them much harder! ;)
that's all good to hear then. If the timings are too tight let's hope that they are updated for future diverts.
 

Harpers Tate

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The question is how much of the passenger usage has been from genuine passengers and how much have been from people out for a day trip for the novelty of an Avanti via the S&C. The ones who wouldn't have otherwise travelled if the WCML was opened.
I was one of the latter. But does it matter why people are onboard - as long as they are?
 

Iskra

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The question is how much of the passenger usage has been from genuine passengers and how much have been from people out for a day trip for the novelty of an Avanti via the S&C. The ones who wouldn't have otherwise travelled if the WCML was opened.

(As for ticket checks, when I did the trains on Monday there was no ticket check in either direction in standard class at least, and that was on a 5 coach set)
There were plenty of regular passengers with suitcases getting off the train that arrived at Preston around 1145 yesterday, so it clearly has provided some usefulness at a very quiet time of year. It has definitely attracted railway tourists, and I’d say the majority of the 1st class passengers on my train were in that category plus a good number in Standard. However, I think regular passengers will need a bit of time to get used to the concept of diversions again before they get confident using them.
 

lrbvoyager

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Would the cancellation due to staffing problems be resolved if Scottish staff were trained on the 80x units?
 

dave59

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but a good point was made upthread that the actual drivers don't know the road (obviously) and the conductors don't know the braking behaviour of the Everos - plus there is the time for communication between the two, with both - initially at least - being cautious "just in case."

I had hoped that with growing familiarity they would start to run the trains harder...

Obviously struggling with the grade at only 2400hp per 5 car set
 

Krokodil

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Would the cancellation due to staffing problems be resolved if Scottish staff were trained on the 80x units?
No. You'd have to get them to Carlisle, do the full round trip and get them back again within the maximum turn length.
 

AndrewE

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No. You'd have to get them to Carlisle, do the full round trip and get them back again within the maximum turn length.
So the answer (yet again) is that Carlisle is too important a node not to have staff located there...
What chance that GBR will amalgamate the different companies' depots at Carlisle and elsewhere, expand them a bit if necessary to allow for wider traction and route knowledge and undo this damaging outcome of the Balkanisation we have seen?
 

Toby268

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So the answer (yet again) is that Carlisle is too important a node not to have staff located there...
What chance that GBR will amalgamate the different companies' depots at Carlisle and elsewhere, expand them a bit if necessary to allow for wider traction and route knowledge and undo this damaging outcome of the Balkanisation we have seen?
The only staffing issues attributed to the diverts have been having to lock out a set if caterers have not been available when running as a double set. And there is a catering depot at Carlisle who have been trained on the 805 for these diverts, even though day to day they don’t work them. Some logical pre planning.

Cancellations have been due to engine issues, frozen toilets and a flat battery, driver and guard availability has been 100% the whole way through so far, I’m led to believe. Bar one service in the morning that’s stabled overnight, all of the trains have came from the south anyway. So naturally the preston depot would work them.
 
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D1024

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I had booked to do the diverts on Wednesday but the weather up here in NE Scotland put paid to that trip. Great service from the Forum ticket site/Trainsplit at getting full refunds on my advance tickets. With the mention above of future diverts, looking ahead at April on Real times trains, there appear to be Avanti diverts on the S&C on the first 3 Saturdays/Sundays - possibly a WCML closure between Preston and Lancaster. Can anyone confirm that as I would like to do them?
 

The Planner

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I had booked to do the diverts on Wednesday but the weather up here in NE Scotland put paid to that trip. Great service from the Forum ticket site/Trainsplit at getting full refunds on my advance tickets. With the mention above of future diverts, looking ahead at April on Real times trains, there appear to be Avanti diverts on the S&C on the first 3 Saturdays/Sundays - possibly a WCML closure between Preston and Lancaster. Can anyone confirm that as I would like to do them?
Yes.
 

lrbvoyager

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I see more Settle and Carlisle diversions are provisionally planned for Sunday 5th April:

Why has this been pathed? Also for the 4th.

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Why has this been pathed? Also for the 4th.
They appear to be hourly aswell? They are on the week after then the week after that is rail replacement. Very confusing!
 
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Carlisle

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What chance that GBR will amalgamate the different companies' depots at Carlisle and elsewhere, expand them a bit if necessary
I’d like to think that’d make sense but i think you’ll find BR took all the Inter City sector work away from there (apart from catering) in 1993 so nationalisation might not be a panacea.
 

Krokodil

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I’d like to think that’d make sense but i think you’ll find BR took all the Inter City sector work away from there (apart from catering) in 1993 so nationalisation might not be a panacea.
Didn't Virgin still have some Carlisle crews until the end of loco haulage?

Mind you, even 20 years after the merger of the two halves of Northern, don't their Carlisle crews only work routes of one of the former franchises and not the other?
 

The Planner

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Why has this been pathed? Also for the 4th.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


They appear to be hourly aswell? They are on the week after then the week after that is rail replacement. Very confusing!
Why is it confusing? The WCML is blocked again in April.
 

Carlisle

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Didn't Virgin still have some Carlisle crews until the end of loco haulage?

Mind you, even 20 years after the merger of the two halves of Northern, don't their Carlisle crews only work routes of one of the former franchises and not the other?
AFAIK your right about Northern, I didn’t think Virgin retained anything other than caterers & initially a few ex BR conductors but happy to be corrected.
 
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lrbvoyager

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I didn’t realise it was. Why is it blocked? I didn’t think they would bother with the diversions again after how these current ones have gone.
Never mind I have read an article on this. It says that Carlisle-Preston will be shut for parts of September. Is it possible Avanti S&C diversions will take place at the same time LNER TV line Diversions take place? If so Carlisle will be hectic!
 

Harpo

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What chance that GBR will amalgamate the different companies' depots at Carlisle and elsewhere, expand them a bit if necessary to allow for wider traction and route knowledge and undo this damaging outcome of the Balkanisation we have seen?
Slightly less than nil I reckon. The additional cost of extra route and traction training won’t advance beyond the (mostly ex-DfT*) bean counters’ pens at GBR.


(* 200+ transferees on their way)
 
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godfreycomplex

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Slightly less than b****r all I reckon. The additional cost of extra route and traction training won’t advance beyond the (mostly ex-DfT*) bean counters’ pens at GBR.


(* 200+ transferees on their way)
If the maintenance depot for the HS2 fleet at Quintinshill goes ahead there’ll likely be a train crew depot either there or at Carlisle
 

Amaranthe

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How reliable has the provision of the full 1st class service been on these diversions?

I'm booked on the 0923 ex Carlisle and 1407 ex Preston tomorrow and debating with myself if it is worth upgrading or not. Currently looks like Seatfrog have upgrades for £23 each way but I'm worried that the catering offer may not be available.
 

Iskra

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How reliable has the provision of the full 1st class service been on these diversions?

I'm booked on the 0923 ex Carlisle and 1407 ex Preston tomorrow and debating with myself if it is worth upgrading or not. Currently looks like Seatfrog have upgrades for £23 each way but I'm worried that the catering offer may not be available.
Patchy, and it can differ between the two sets of the train. On Saturday neither portion received the advertised offering, however one set received an at seat service of cold sandwiches, snacks and alcohol and the other portion were denied any alcohol as apparently it was against policy to serve it… other passengers have been directed to the shop to claim their complementaries.

I think you’d be lucky to get the full advertised catering offer, but I’ve seen evidence that some passengers have actually received that.

You’ll probably get a table to yourself in Standard though so maybe just save £23 and buy some decent food and drink instead.
 
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