Avanti dispatchers not wearing high vis jackets

[Harpo]

Guards wearing high visibility clothing will make it far easier for Dispatchers to notice them on the station

Dispatchers watching trains arrive will be able to spot and identify most guards as they check that the platform hasn’t been removed before opening the doors.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

On a crowded platform they're obviously going to be able to pick them out more quickly. The clue's in the name.

Even on a crowded platform, if I can't easily see the dispatcher, I'm not even thinking of starting the dispatch process. I have held dispatch at Euston for this exact scenario recently.

Until that PTI is 100% clear and I have a clear sight of a dispatcher, I'll be watching the crowd behaviour/clear away.

Don't need hi-vis, if you can't see the dispatcher without hi-vis, shouldn't be taking the tip.

Avanti using LED battons certainly helps in stations where bleaching is a hazard, or in low light situations. Helps more than a hi-vis as the vest type doesn't highlight the arm position unlike a batton.

Also, I see many different roles where orange hi-viz such as drivers, platform staff, station managers, Network Rail staff, Alston/Bombardier staff. If one of them sticks their hand up from 8 coaches away (160m) should I take it? Use of flag/lights/battons will always be the safest way to dispatch.

 

[47434]

Disagree.

Dispatchers do not need Hi Vis.

Hi Vis is PPE and there is no need to wear PPE while on a station platform. Hi Vis is overused these days.

Agree. The Network Rail standard for full oranges, hard hat and specs for pretty much anything flies in the face of sensible risk assessing.

 

[Harpo]

Agree. The Network Rail standard for full oranges, hard hat and specs for pretty much anything flies in the face of sensible risk assessing.

Or alternatively, it saves thousands of repetitive control measures stating full orange etc…..

 

[43066]

Agree. The Network Rail standard for full oranges, hard hat and specs for pretty much anything flies in the face of sensible risk assessing.

Albeit this thread isn’t discussing the NR standards - full orange is absolutely sensible for on track working. I won’t comment on the hard hat/specs!

 

[Meerkat]

A while ago I was walking along a local stretch of the Trent & Mersey Canal. There were a group of volunteers working on the towpath. They were all wear hi-viz tabards. I chatted to them for a while and asked why they were wearing hi-viz. They said they had to, to comply with the Health & Safety Rules. Now I totally understand it if working beside a busy road with speeding vehicles, but surely not by the side of a canal. I’m pretty sure a barge isn’t going to mow you down on the towpath?

But the kid looking at their phone while whizzing along on an E-bike or scooter might be more likely to see them.

Yesterday a school trip passed through the public area where I was working with all the kids and teachers wearing yellow hi-vis vests. Presumably there is some educational risk assessment that now demands it. Or maybe it's an easy way for the teachers to count all the hi-vis vests within sight to make sure no one has gone missing... in which case they might have counted my colleague and I and found they had two extra!

I’ve seen a school group that had numbered hi viz vests so they could quickly work out who was missing!

 

[saismee]

No hi-vis is worn by dispatch staff at my TOC.

Only exception I can (and you have likely seen recently!) is Ontrak (recruiting agency) with either blue or pink, or work experience/trainees wearing blue. Not dispatch crew though, they're just shadowing.
Far too many people wearing high-vis clothing for it to help spot dispatchers. Is a uniform, baton, and wave to the driver not enough?

 

[dk1]

Only exception I can (and you have likely seen recently!) is Ontrak (recruiting agency) with either blue or pink, or work experience/trainees wearing blue. Not dispatch crew though, they're just shadowing.
Far too many people wearing high-vis clothing for it to help spot dispatchers. Is a uniform, baton, and wave to the driver not enough?

As a proper railwayman I pay little attention to anything that’s not orange. These days as drivers at my part of our TOC we accept no dispatch via a baton.

 

[saismee]

As a proper railwayman I pay little attention to anything that’s not orange. These days as drivers at my part of our TOC we accept no dispatch via a baton.

In that case, I assume the baton is just for the guard during degraded dispatch. At the moment there's a dozen-or-so trainees in blue high-vis standing with the dispatchers split across various stations, but I will admit it's not the most visible colour. It is certainly understandable that you have more important things to be paying attention to. Maybe you'll spot one of them at the gates (assuming you leave the stations that way).

I'll be the first to admit when I was a dispatcher I forgot about a train a couple of times. Most of my colleagues had done it too.

I hope there were other station duties you were busy with... security checks and maybe a bit of disruption? I've seen a few passenger assists get missed before because of similar situations.

 

[dk1]

In that case, I assume the baton is just for the guard during degraded dispatch. At the moment there's a dozen-or-so trainees in blue high-vis standing with the dispatchers split across various stations, but I will admit it's not the most visible colour. It is certainly understandable that you have more important things to be paying attention to. Maybe you'll spot one of them at the gates (assuming you leave the stations that way).

Yes it’s the guard who deals with that under degraded working.

Of course I leave via station ticket gates/concourses and use the railway on & off duty and see blue vests. No idea what they are. They remind me of the tourist info guys in the city centre if I’m honest.

 

[saismee]

No idea what they are.

Somewhere between a (nearly) necessary help for the staff and a hindrance. No formal training beyond customer service (no ticketing, gate operation, or dispatch) so it's pretty hit-or-miss based on how quickly they (we!) learn.

 

[dk1]

Somewhere between a (nearly) necessary help for the staff and a hindrance. No formal training beyond customer service (no ticketing, gate operation, or dispatch) so it's pretty hit-or-miss based on how quickly they (we!) learn.

I’m none the wiser

 

[Deepgreen]

Disagree all you like but it has a purpose and it fits the purpose. It’s not going to change.

So, if it is so important, why is it not universally adopted? I also feel that hi-vis clothing is vastly over-used - it seems to be becoming a form of uniform for anyone doing any sort of public-facing outdoor work, which is not its purpose.

 

[Hellzapoppin]

IIRC an incident occurred trackside some years ago where the people concerned were unable to be identified, therefore all Hiviz jackets, vests etc were changed to show the wearers employer on the back. That still stands so wearing a Hiviz serves several purposes not just as PPE

 

[styles]

IIRC an incident occurred trackside some years ago where the people concerned were unable to be identified, therefore all Hiviz jackets, vests etc were changed to show the wearers employer on the back. That still stands so wearing a Hiviz serves several purposes not just as PPE

Actually the standard specifically says branding is not required:

G 2.4.9 It is not necessary for high-visibility clothing to display a company, project name or logo if this is not desired.

And the rationale:

G 2.4.7 The intent is for as much of the background colour as possible to be visible to aid visibility.

From RIS-3279-TOM Issue 2: https://www.rssb.co.uk/standards-catalogue/CatalogueItem/RIS-3279-TOM-Iss-2

 

[12LDA28C]

Actually the standard specifically says branding is not required:



And the rationale:



From RIS-3279-TOM Issue 2: https://www.rssb.co.uk/standards-catalogue/CatalogueItem/RIS-3279-TOM-Iss-2

None of which contradicts the fact that hi-vis is not required for those carrying out normal station / dispatch duties and indeed RIS-3279-TOM specifically states this.

 

[styles]

None of which contradicts the fact that hi-vis is not required for those carrying out normal station / dispatch duties and indeed RIS-3279-TOM specifically states this.

Oh I agree - I'm very much in the, "There's too much hi-viz", camp, and don't believe it is necessary or desirable in this context.

I just wanted to correct that, in the event hi-viz is worn, a worker can't rely on a company logo being on the back. If anything the standard advises keeping markings to a minimum so as to retain as much of the jacket/vest colour as possible.

 

[sprunt]

Not obviously the case at all, from direct experience of looking back along crowded platforms (do you have any, or are you just guessing?).

I've got over 50 years' experience of looking at things of various colours, and realising that a high contrast level makes individual things easier to pick out, yes. The laws of physics aren't different because you're on a train.

 

[43066]

I've got over 50 years' experience of looking at things of various colours, and realising that a high contrast level makes individual things easier to pick out, yes. The laws of physics aren't different because you're on a train.

So as I suspected you have no experience of the railway environment, and are indeed just guessing. Several posters who do have stated that it makes no difference on busy platforms, so why continue to argue the point?

 

[Krokodil]

I've got over 50 years' experience of looking at things of various colours, and realising that a high contrast level makes individual things easier to pick out, yes. The laws of physics aren't different because you're on a train.

But lots of people wear hivis these days so how does the dispatcher contrast with a cyclist or passing S&T technician?

I have never had an issue picking out a dispatcher at an Avanti station. Nor at a Northern one.

 

[greatkingrat]

Maybe the dispatchers should wear a special pointed hat with a big D for dispatcher on it to make them more visible?

 

[Mag_seven]

I think this thread has run its course.