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Avanti dispatchers not wearing high vis jackets

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I travelled on Avanti yesterday and noticed that their dispatchers weren’t wearing high vis jackets. Is the rule about whether you do or don’t need to wear one dependent on each TOC? Are there any other TOCs where dispatchers don’t need to wear them?
 
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12LDA28C

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Hi-visibility clothing is a requirement of going trackside - there is no Rule Book requirement to wear hi-viz on a station platform.
 

Midland Man

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Indeed - hi vis can be an unnecessary distraction. The more people wear it the less effective it is but of course it must be worn when it contributes to personal safety as part of the protection hierarchy.
 

I_am_Nobody

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As a Guard, Dispatchers wearing high visibility clothing will make it far easier for me to notice them on the approach to the station, and make it more obvious that they are there to assist. If I don’t see them, I’ll be prepared to dispatch solo, and this can sometimes cause friction, so I’m not a fan of them not being visible!
 

Midland Man

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As a Guard, Dispatchers wearing high visibility clothing will make it far easier for me to notice them on the approach to the station, and make it more obvious that they are there to assist. If I don’t see them, I’ll be prepared to dispatch solo, and this can sometimes cause friction, so I’m not a fan of them not being visible!
Understood - but guards managed to identify station staff for nearly 200 years without needing hi vis! Of course on pre hi vis days operational railway staff wore a clearly identifiable uniform with peaked cap which is much smarter than the hi vis worn today. You even see on train survey team members wearing hi vis!
 

bengley

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Times change, and so must our behaviours with it. It’s now available so it can be used, and there are benefits to it being used. It certainly isn’t what I would call an ‘unnecessary distraction’!
Disagree.

Dispatchers do not need Hi Vis.

Hi Vis is PPE and there is no need to wear PPE while on a station platform. Hi Vis is overused these days.
 

12LDA28C

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Disagree.

Dispatchers do not need Hi Vis.

Hi Vis is PPE and there is no need to wear PPE while on a station platform. Hi Vis is overused these days.

Agreed. Dispatchers and other station staff can wear a green or blue vest if they need to be easily identified and indeed I've seen station staff at various locations so attired.
 

Midland Man

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Agreed. Dispatchers and other station staff can wear a green or blue vest if they need to be easily identified and indeed I've seen station staff at various locations so attired.
In fairness Avanti uniform is very eye catching without being hi vis. That said it still seems odd that the old standard ' no red, yellow or green uniform colours' got dropped so easily. I guess Virgin Trains wouldn't budge on that.
 

12LDA28C

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Disagree all you like but it has a purpose and it fits the purpose. It’s not going to change.

The point is that some TOCs use it and some don't, but it's not a Rule Book requirement which is why hi-vis is not universally worn by dispatchers.
 

Fokx

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If I don’t see them, I’ll be prepared to dispatch solo, and this can sometimes cause friction

What TOC allows you to dispatch a train where a dispatcher should be present, solo?

There can’t be many that allow that, indeed mine it would be classed as an operational incident
 

Geeves

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As a Guard, Dispatchers wearing high visibility clothing will make it far easier for me to notice them on the approach to the station, and make it more obvious that they are there to assist. If I don’t see them, I’ll be prepared to dispatch solo, and this can sometimes cause friction, so I’m not a fan of them not being visible!

If you try to despatch yourself solo at my station you'll quickly see yourself taken upstairs.

Why don't you try looking for a person holding a dispatch baton first. That'll probably help you.
 

styles

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If the system relied on recognising hi-viz to determine whether there is a dispatcher, I suspect you might run into problems if there's other hi viz wearers on the platform waiting for the next service (members of the public, or indeed other rail workers donning the orange). I can't imagine it offers much in the way of safety.

I believe a lot of hi-viz wearing is unnecessary, and potentially even distracting or misleading, similar to people sticking hazard lights on their car when driving around event sites or Centre Parcs.
 

I_am_Nobody

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If the system relied on recognising hi-viz to determine whether there is a dispatcher, I suspect you might run into problems if there's other hi viz wearers on the platform waiting for the next service (members of the public, or indeed other rail workers donning the orange). I can't imagine it offers much in the way of safety.

I believe a lot of hi-viz wearing is unnecessary, and potentially even distracting or misleading, similar to people sticking hazard lights on their car when driving around event sites or Centre Parcs.
Oh, I agree. So many people wear it out and about, and it’s entirely unnecessary and dangerous. Much like people wearing lanyards emblazoned with the word ‘Staff’. You might be staff somewhere, but not here! The system doesn’t rely on it per sé, it makes it easier to spot the dispatchers. It also helps that they are usually in the same place, and you get very acquainted with where they will be and when.

If you try to despatch yourself solo at my station you'll quickly see yourself taken upstairs.

Why don't you try looking for a person holding a dispatch baton first. That'll probably help you.

Various reasons, try working a shift on board and you’ll see it isn’t always that easy. Thankfully and proudly I have a clean record with no dispatch irregularities, and very much aim to keep it that way. I have a good relationship with the dispatch staff at my home station, and they have a positive attitude to safety and visibility.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

What TOC allows you to dispatch a train where a dispatcher should be present, solo?

There can’t be many that allow that, indeed mine it would be classed as an operational incident
My TOC rules are that we have mandatory dispatch assistance at two stations (three during morning peak). Everywhere else, if dispatcher is not present I am authorised and trained to dispatch alone. They are generally there to assist with crowding more than anything.
 

Anvil1984

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Agreed and it’s a bizarre line of reasoning from this poster. As a former experienced guard (now driver) you get to know what to expect what to look for in terms of that station staffs “uniform” (high viz or not) and there are stations like your patch where you just do not despatch solo
 

Horizon22

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As a Guard, Dispatchers wearing high visibility clothing will make it far easier for me to notice them on the approach to the station, and make it more obvious that they are there to assist. If I don’t see them, I’ll be prepared to dispatch solo, and this can sometimes cause friction, so I’m not a fan of them not being visible!

This is probably because you have become accustomed to it at your TOC; a guard at another TOC where dispatchers wearing hi-vis has not been the norm might think differently.
 

I_am_Nobody

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This is probably because you have become accustomed to it at your TOC; a guard at another TOC where dispatchers wearing hi-vis has not been the norm might think differently.
Oh absolutely. My comments directly relate to my experience, the TOCs I have worked at have all had platform staff in the vests, and I feel like it works. I acknowledge it isn’t the practice at other TOCs, and if that works for those companies and Guards/staff, it works! It would be a wild difference for me, because as you say… it is the norm for me! :D
 

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As a driver and an ex dispatcher I find it appropriate for them to be worn at busy times of day and during events, but if there's only a few people on the platform it's a bit pointless
 

AMD

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What TOC allows you to dispatch a train where a dispatcher should be present, solo?
I can't speak for the original posters location, but Haymarket (Edinburgh) has a hybrid dispatch situation - 8 car (E&G), HSTs and LNER & Avanti services are dispatched, anything else is self dispatch - however I have been dispatched on a 2 car 158.....
 

Travelmonkey

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For my local Burton it depends sometimes they Don the hi viz and sometimes they don't, as long as they have batton in hand the guards know that they have a 2nd set of eyes. Although I have had staff ask a guard to self dispatch themselves while carrying out assists,
 

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I was walking through Central London this evening, so many people heading home from work wearing Hi-Vis, at what point do people wearing Hii-Vis start blending into the background?
 

43367

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LNER dispatchers don’t wear hi-viz and they don’t even use their whistles to dispatch now, they do one hustle whistle to get passengers attention, but when signalling the station work complete and safety check complete, 1st and 2nd tips in old school terminology, it is all whistle-less now. Allegedly due to concerns over hearing damage to staff and passengers.
 
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LNER dispatchers don’t wear hi-viz and they don’t even use their whistles to dispatch now, they do one hustle whistle to get passengers attention, but when signalling the station work complete and safety check complete, 1st and 2nd tips in old school terminology, it is all whistle-less now. Allegedly due to concerns over hearing damage to staff and passengers.
I’m fairly new to the railway but I was told that before covid dispatchers always used whistles but stopped during covid as apparently they were told not to put things in their mouths. Personally I only use the whistle if I have a busy platform or there’s children about or any potential risks
 

185

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I recall stations on the western looking like a bad building site with a variety of coloured, stained and tatty vis-vests. The bonkers ideas and daydreams of someone sat in an office totally detached from reality sadly often end up manifesting as reality in our railway.
 

357

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LNER dispatchers don’t wear hi-viz and they don’t even use their whistles to dispatch now, they do one hustle whistle to get passengers attention, but when signalling the station work complete and safety check complete, 1st and 2nd tips in old school terminology, it is all whistle-less now. Allegedly due to concerns over hearing damage to staff and passengers.
When I last dispatched the rulebook had changed from compulsory whistle to discretionary whistle due to noise complaints from neighbours.

I never whistled for a second tip - just a "hurry up whistle"
 

Bletchleyite

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I’m fairly new to the railway but I was told that before covid dispatchers always used whistles but stopped during covid as apparently they were told not to put things in their mouths. Personally I only use the whistle if I have a busy platform or there’s children about or any potential risks

There are actually electronic "whistle boxes" that don't require the use of the mouth, they are just as loud! One of the Isle of Wight guards uses one.
 

ValleyLines142

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What TOC allows you to dispatch a train where a dispatcher should be present, solo?

There can’t be many that allow that, indeed mine it would be classed as an operational incident
If ever there are staffing issues, in which a call to the relevant department of said TOC needs to be made.
 
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