ATW Premier Service

[Bakers1970]

Did you travel this week since Monday,out of interest, I agree catering should be available for all passengers.But I question the requirement for a Chef

Bob

So..in this very bleak economic era..along with the employment figures not for good reading..are you advocating staff redundancies and hardship for those involved?? Your constant bickering over whether a Chef or On board staff are required is getting very tedious and irritating.....Surely ATW should be applauded for employing additional staff from an area that has suffered more than some others (Anglesey) ?? The economics and running timetables for this Service are ATW's perrogative and your seemingly constant attacks towards these members of staff is being perceived vindictive and very hard to bear? I mean no offence to you personally but please bear in mind that there are REAL people who read your comments and they,like everybody else worry about their jobs and future.. Rant over!!

 

[harri2626]

Hear, hear Bakers - let's rejoice in there being a chef to offer real food, not the usual sub-pub-grub offered by most rail companies today. It is particularly encouraging that proper meals are available for both classes on this train (as it should be on any railway) and every opportunity must be made to encourage it.

 

[Gareth Marston]

So..in this very bleak economic era..along with the employment figures not for good reading..are you advocating staff redundancies and hardship for those involved?? Your constant bickering over whether a Chef or On board staff are required is getting very tedious and irritating.....Surely ATW should be applauded for employing additional staff from an area that has suffered more than some others (Anglesey) ?? The economics and running timetables for this Service are ATW's perrogative and your seemingly constant attacks towards these members of staff is being perceived vindictive and very hard to bear? I mean no offence to you personally but please bear in mind that there are REAL people who read your comments and they,like everybody else worry about their jobs and future.. Rant over!!

Well if its all about public money creating jobs theirs cheaper ways of doing it than letting ATW charge to run top n tailed Class 67's with traveling chefs in Mk3 coaches. On that criteria the Cambrian having an hourly service would have created more jobs for less money. But of course its not solely about the jobs created!

The population of Anglesey have probably on a per head basis had more public £ than any other region in Wales. A55 Expressway, Objective One , Wylfa 2 etc

 

[merlodlliw]

So..in this very bleak economic era..along with the employment figures not for good reading..are you advocating staff redundancies and hardship for those involved?? Your constant bickering over whether a Chef or On board staff are required is getting very tedious and irritating.....Surely ATW should be applauded for employing additional staff from an area that has suffered more than some others (Anglesey) ?? The economics and running timetables for this Service are ATW's perrogative and your seemingly constant attacks towards these members of staff is being perceived vindictive and very hard to bear? I mean no offence to you personally but please bear in mind that there are REAL people who read your comments and they,like everybody else worry about their jobs and future.. Rant over!!

As a Welsh taxpayer, it is my right to question the economics of this train,it is not ATW who pay for the staff, but Welsh Govt in funding the train & it is WG who insist on the Chef not ATW, it was also my right to organise the opposition to the cut backs on the Wrexham/Chester line and get the Birmingham train reinstated when the Wag Ex took its path from Monday , thus saving worried employees who work in the West Midlands & travel from North East Wales much anxiety, ATW did not give a dam about those which are well into double figures that was my focus.

Bob

 

[Bakers1970]

Well if its all about public money creating jobs theirs cheaper ways of doing it than letting ATW charge to run top n tailed Class 67's with traveling chefs in Mk3 coaches. On that criteria the Cambrian having an hourly service would have created more jobs for less money. But of course its not solely about the jobs created!

The population of Anglesey have probably on a per head basis had more public £ than any other region in Wales. A55 Expressway, Objective One , Wylfa 2 etc

Ok, All fair points ,It is not my aim to get into a heated debate, however my main point was aimed at a bit more respect for the Staff involved, There will always be those who like to speculate on the reasons why and wherefores however We are dealing with REAL jobs and their livelihoods and I for one feel that that should remain the real focus.

 

[merlodlliw]

Hear, hear Bakers - let's rejoice in there being a chef to offer real food, not the usual sub-pub-grub offered by most rail companies today. It is particularly encouraging that proper meals are available for both classes on this train (as it should be on any railway) and every opportunity must be made to encourage it.

Harri Wrexham & Shopshire railways it was acknowledged served the best food of any TOC without the requirement of a Chef during its short life without any injection of taxpayers money, The Wag Express is modelled on their service,the then Minister decided on the Chef which I and many more think an extravagance. Two catering staff in my opinion is ample.

 

[harri2626]

Two catering staff dishing out sandwiches and microwaved pizzas? May as well be self-service. Let's consider that the chef is/chefs are learning skills and maintaining a tradition which - if lost - may never return. The train is the only form of land transport capable of offering a proper dining experience for travellers. Why lose it for the sake of some perceived "cost" to the Welsh taxpayer? One thing is for certain, if the chef is sacked, there won't be a penny repaid to any Welshman and the unemployment bill will rise accordingly.
Aim high, or expect the lowest common denominator.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Two catering staff dishing out sandwiches and microwaved pizzas? May as well be self-service. Let's consider that the chef is/chefs are learning skills and maintaining a tradition which - if lost - may never return. The train is the only form of land transport capable of offering a proper dining experience for travellers. Why lose it for the sake of some perceived "cost" to the Welsh taxpayer? One thing is for certain, if the chef is sacked, there won't be a penny repaid to any Welshman and the unemployment bill will rise accordingly.
Aim high, or expect the lowest common denominator.

I have to say that I agree, sometimes I think that we have already accepted the lowest common denominator on our trains...we welcome 25 year old refurbished 158's on the Cambrian because at least they are not 150's...and think it is a bit of a triumph if most seats are aligned with windows....airline seating is standard on FGW 125's is it not? Will this some be the same on N Wales Voyagers? Perhaps a generation brought up on Ryanair and Easyjet are happy with such standards but for those of us who remember something just a little bit more exciting in train travel are currently left with very little. The WAG is the only train that I would ever dream of eating on, (microwaved pizzas for heavens sake? I didn't know that it was even possible!) Why shouldn't decent food be provided on trains if people are willing to pay for it? I don't mind doing so as a treat , but that is just my personal opinion.
I always smile at the memory of the press release when WAG1 was launched, which contained a phrase like ' we are giving customers the chance to travel in more comfort'...funny, I don't remember the spokesperson years ago when MK2s and first class where taken away saying that they were giving 'customers the chance to travel in less comfort'...hey ho!

 

[Gwenllian2001]

The population of Anglesey have probably on a per head basis had more public £ than any other region in Wales. A55 Expressway, Objective One , Wylfa 2 etc

The A55 Expressway is not for the benefit of Anglesey but it is part of a 'Euro Route' to Ireland. Objective One was not confined to Anglesey and what exactly is Wylfa2?

 

[transmanche]

what exactly is Wylfa2?

I assume it's reactor no.2 at Wylfa nuclear power station, on Anglesey.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

I assume it's reactor no.2 at Wylfa nuclear power station, on Anglesey.

Yes, but why? Both reactors were built at the same time, in 1963, and both were commissioned in 1971. I am just curious as to the real, or imagined, benefits that 'Wylfa 2' has brought to the people of Anglesey. The rundown of the power station has had a negative affect on the local economy with the associated closure of the nearby aluminium smelter.

 

[jones_bangor]

Yes, but why? Both reactors were built at the same time, in 1963, and both were commissioned in 1971. I am just curious as to the real, or imagined, benefits that 'Wylfa 2' has brought to the people of Anglesey. The rundown of the power station has had a negative affect on the local economy with the associated closure of the nearby aluminium smelter.

I think Wylfa 2 should read Wylfa B - which isn't certain to happen....

The points about the A55 being an euro-route are correct, my understanding is that Stena were planning to pull out of Holyhead were it not have been built.

 

[mr williams]

I was at Cardiff Central on Monday evening and there was nobody in 1st class as the northbound WAG departed.

I noticed that all the first class tables were set up for dining - is it only possible to buy a "meal included" 1st class ticket? OK, most would want the meal I know but I daresay there would be people who wouldn't/couldn't eat it due to dietary/medical/personal reasons so do they have to pay anyway?

 

[merlodlliw]

Two catering staff dishing out sandwiches and microwaved pizzas? May as well be self-service. Let's consider that the chef is/chefs are learning skills and maintaining a tradition which - if lost - may never return. The train is the only form of land transport capable of offering a proper dining experience for travellers. Why lose it for the sake of some perceived "cost" to the Welsh taxpayer? One thing is for certain, if the chef is sacked, there won't be a penny repaid to any Welshman and the unemployment bill will rise accordingly.
Aim high, or expect the lowest common denominator.

Wrexham & Shropshire railways provided excellent cooked food to the highest standard those who sampled it will vouch for this fact,W/S provided this with catering staff, it is obvious you never sampled this excellent food rated highest of any toc for customer satisfaction, Your comment about learning skills is lost on me, why would the Chefs be sacked, and increase unemployment,the agency that supplies them to ATW would simply redirect them to other clients, as occurs now.
So in your opinion the lowest common denominator refers to who exactly. All Welsh tax payers are feeling the perceived tax including me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was at Cardiff Central on Monday evening and there was nobody in 1st class as the northbound WAG departed.

I noticed that all the first class tables were set up for dining - is it only possible to buy a "meal included" 1st class ticket? OK, most would want the meal I know but I daresay there would be people who wouldn't/couldn't eat it due to dietary/medical/personal reasons so do they have to pay anyway?

I must say having seen no one in first on Friday morning, this does not surprise me for you to report no one in first on Monday evening.

The first class ticket(when sold) includes the meal, you have to pay for it ether way eating it or not, to me this is a nonsense.
Has no one has come back to tell me if they had a meal in standard this week,I can only presume the counter staff did there usual excellent service.

 

[Bakers1970]

Wrexham & Shropshire railways provided excellent cooked food to the highest standard those who sampled it will vouch for this fact,W/S provided this with catering staff, it is obvious you never sampled this excellent food rated highest of any toc for customer satisfaction, Your comment about learning skills is lost on me, why would the Chefs be sacked, and increase unemployment,the agency that supplies them to ATW would simply redirect them to other clients, as occurs now.
So in your opinion the lowest common denominator refers to who exactly. All Welsh tax payers are feeling the perceived tax including me.

A couple of points here, I agree the demise of W & S was a very sad affair however it no longer exists for whatever political reason, and the WAG customer results are always very commendable which should be applauded in the same manner.
The 2nd point refers to the "Agency" that provides the chef redirecting to other clients???? Are you not aware that the chef if a direct employee of ATW through its AT-SEAT catering arm??.... Now given that there is only 1 Service that provides on board chefs ...there is not much room for redirecting ??
I still cannot fathom out the reason this service gets so much flak... Yes it gets WG subsidy,..but how many other streams get subsidy yet slip through the net from forum bashing.? As someone who was directly involved in this service I despair at some of the derogatory viewpoints on this forum.Yes, people have the right to question (as I have been reminded) however , it is running ,has gone through the WG funding process and still remains.
I for one along with so many more will continue to support this service and long may it continue. Just to clarify, I have travelled in both standard and first class and each and every time customer satisfaction is the main focus of the On Board teams..

 

[merlodlliw]

A couple of points here, I agree the demise of W & S was a very sad affair however it no longer exists for whatever political reason, and the WAG customer results are always very commendable which should be applauded in the same manner.
The 2nd point refers to the "Agency" that provides the chef redirecting to other clients???? Are you not aware that the chef if a direct employee of ATW through its AT-SEAT catering arm??.... Now given that there is only 1 Service that provides on board chefs ...there is not much room for redirecting ??
I still cannot fathom out the reason this service gets so much flak... Yes it gets WG subsidy,..but how many other streams get subsidy yet slip through the net from forum bashing.? As someone who was directly involved in this service I despair at some of the derogatory viewpoints on this forum.Yes, people have the right to question (as I have been reminded) however , it is running ,has gone through the WG funding process and still remains.
I for one along with so many more will continue to support this service and long may it continue. Just to clarify, I have travelled in both standard and first class and each and every time customer satisfaction is the main focus of the On Board teams..

Well heres another point

I am not against this train, but having seen ATWs hidden agenda when they published the timetable in error, and without consultation we would have lost a loaded Birmingham service
that was to terminate in Shrewsbury from last Monday to give the WAG a path, with only a three minute window(if on time) to transfer to the diverted Birmingham service via Crewe at Salop, no consideration was given to anyone with a disablement, or those arriving almost an late for work in the West Midlands if the connection had left.

Also as you were directly involved with the Wag Express, you must be aware of the bashing the "WAGAIR" gets. And yes the train is running, but also it is the only Open Access rail service paid for by any UK Govt, so it is bound to get flak. Yes it was sad to see W/S assassinated by DB.

Bob

 

[Bakers1970]

Well heres another point

Also as you were directly involved with the Wag Express, you must be aware of the bashing the "WAGAIR" gets. And yes the train is running, but also it is the only Open Access rail service paid for by any UK Govt, so it is bound to get flak. Yes it was sad to see W/S assassinated by DB.

Bob

Yes, fair play,
I would have to concede your viewpoints there.

 

[merlodlliw]

Yes, fair play,
I would have to concede your viewpoints there.

Ok ill leave it at that, I hope the service via Wrexham gains more support, but I get the feel the return up is perhaps too late, replacing the busy 1721 may have been a better bet, but its a stopper. Look forward to the DVT, no doubt the ATW finance Director is also looking forward to the DVT,surprised Pullman are late with their lead time for the mark 3s, no doubt into penalty time now, that wont please the new owners.
On another matter long gone are the days when it was always change at Salop for Wrexham from Cardiff , I used to wait around 50 minutes for the connection when I was a Trustee of WCVA ,alas the Mid Waliens still have this hang up
Nice chatting to you.


Bob

 

[Squaddie]

Yes it was sad to see W/S assassinated by DB.

Wrexham & Shropshire wasn't "assassinated": it failed to attract enough customers to make it financially viable and so was forced to close.

I used it a couple of times, and the on-board experience was second to none, but the trains took so long to get anywhere and were so frequently diverted and disrupted due to weekend engineering works that I usually chose Virgin.

 

[ainsworth74]

Wrexham & Shropshire wasn't "assassinated": it failed to attract enough customers to make it financially viable and so was forced to close.

I used it a couple of times, and the on-board experience was second to none, but the trains took so long to get anywhere and were so frequently diverted and disrupted due to weekend engineering works that I usually chose Virgin.

Now now, we don't want the painful truth about WSMR exposed do we

 

[merlodlliw]

Wrexham & Shropshire wasn't "assassinated": it failed to attract enough customers to make it financially viable and so was forced to close.

I used it a couple of times, and the on-board experience was second to none, but the trains took so long to get anywhere and were so frequently diverted and disrupted due to weekend engineering works that I usually chose Virgin.

I fully agree the route was long with many engineering diversions, I use the word assassination, due to DB wanting the stock for Chiltern, I am pleased you like others enjoyed the experience, however Wrexham General is now a magnificent station due to them,if they had not come along, we would still have decaying eyesaw bays.
I agree they could not attract enough trade as an open access TOC to pay its way something ATW dont have to worry about with its O/A Wag Express which is based on the W/S model.

Bob

 

[glenbogle]

I was on the train on Friday, 5 people including myself in the standard class carriage nearest the first class/dining car and none in the first class from Cardiff.
2 first class did get on at Newport and there was more standard class passengers on at Newport than there was at Cardiff.

1821 far too late in my opinion especially on a Friday, the train that left previously at around 16:15 was always very busy from Cardiff.

 

[emoaconr]

I was on the train on Friday, 5 people including myself in the standard class carriage nearest the first class/dining car and none in the first class from Cardiff.
2 first class did get on at Newport and there was more standard class passengers on at Newport than there was at Cardiff.

1821 far too late in my opinion especially on a Friday, the train that left previously at around 16:15 was always very busy from Cardiff.

Really?

I was on the same train in coach B, I had 2 random strangers around my table as far as Hereford, far more than 5 in that car! There were also more than 2 people getting on at Newport!

 

[transmanche]

The first class ticket(when sold) includes the meal, you have to pay for it ether way eating it or not, to me this is a nonsense.

So, just like Virgin, East Coast, Hull Trains...

 

[merlodlliw]

Really?

I was on the same train in coach B, I had 2 random strangers around my table as far as Hereford, far more than 5 in that car! There were also more than 2 people getting on at Newport!

with all respect, thats what he said, 2 in first, far more on in standard at Newport than Cardiff.


Bob

 

[Squaddie]

1821 far too late in my opinion especially on a Friday, the train that left previously at around 16:15 was always very busy from Cardiff.

One of the previous criticisms on this forum was that 16.15 was too early, and that the train was timed to benefit lazy assembly members rather than normal, hard-working people. I'd have thought that 18.21 was a very good time for a return train for those from the north who want to enjoy a day out in the capital and travel in comfort?

 

[merlodlliw]

One of the previous criticisms on this forum was that 16.15 was too early, and that the train was timed to benefit lazy assembly members rather than normal, hard-working people. I'd have thought that 18.21 was a very good time for a return train for those from the north who want to enjoy a day out in the capital and travel in comfort?

My opinion is a better time would be around 1730, the 1721 is always packed.
time will tell if it catches on..

Bob

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

My opinion is a better time would be around 1730, the 1721 is always packed.
time will tell if it catches on..

Bob

Agree with that, from my own experience any time between 16h30 and 17h30 would be acceptable, remember that business meetings aren't 9-5, most of the ones I used to attend in Cardiff ended before 16h00, giving the locals time to get back to their office/base and allowing us gogs to get back north at a reasonable hour. I'm not sure which market the current timing is aimed at, unless it is as Squaddie suggests for people who want a day out in the capital (mind you, from N Wales they are more likely to go to Liverpool or Manchester, but I do believe we've had that discussion, many times!)

 

[merlodlliw]

Agree with that, from my own experience any time between 16h30 and 17h30 would be acceptable, remember that business meetings aren't 9-5, most of the ones I used to attend in Cardiff ended before 16h00, giving the locals time to get back to their office/base and allowing us gogs to get back north at a reasonable hour. I'm not sure which market the current timing is aimed at, unless it is as Squaddie suggests for people who want a day out in the capital (mind you, from N Wales they are more likely to go to Liverpool or Manchester, but I do believe we've had that discussion, many times!)

Yes we have had that discussion before with the nearer Cities to North Wales attracting an obvious choice, when I attended WCVA meetings in Cardiff Bay,we always finished at 1600 so trustees could catch the 1721 home to the North & of course those travelling West.
I am inclined to think Saturday may encourage a few more to travel to Cardiff for a day out.

Bob

 

[The Informer]

I fully agree the route was long with many engineering diversions, I use the word assassination, due to DB wanting the stock for Chiltern, I am pleased you like others enjoyed the experience, however Wrexham General is now a magnificent station due to them,if they had not come along, we would still have decaying eyesaw bays.
I agree they could not attract enough trade as an open access TOC to pay its way something ATW dont have to worry about with its O/A Wag Express which is based on the W/S model.

Bob

We still have decaying eyesore bays. Especially as not much use it. There is a 4 car 150 parked up at the minute tho, probably because of the flooding everywhere.