ATW Premier Service

[merlodlliw]

I though they'd refurbished more than 2 x standard Mk 3s.

Caught the 16:21 northbound on Monday, 2 x car 175 full and standing. I imagine there'll be plenty of seats on the 18:21 express, leaves Cardiff too late in my opinion...... 17:21 would have been a much better option! I'm sure the passenger figures will tell a tale....

Fully agree 1721 would be my choice of time, having struggled at Cardiff for years to aline myself to the doors as it came in,but those naughty people at Cwmbran must be kept off Gerald it seems
I also wonder do pax figures mean anything on this train. I hope its not just two standard mark3s plus the little used first,we shall know this evening.

 

[Erniescooper]

Southbound Gerald did'nt want to reverse at Chester this morning, just left now heading for Crewe.

 

[sprinterguy]

Is the first class coach either of the two ATW have been using or is it an extra one? If the latter, what will happen to the orriginals, if the former when did it get re-painted?

10249, seen in that photo, is one of the existing ATW restaurant vehicles. I can think of no good reason why they would be replaced with other, identical carriages.

 

[merlodlliw]

Southbound Gerald did'nt want to reverse at Chester this morning, just left now heading for Crewe.

Did Gerald actually go via Crewe today to Cardiff,did it only have one 67?

 

[SprinterMan]

I though they'd refurbished more than 2 x standard Mk 3s.

Caught the 16:21 northbound on Monday, 2 x car 175 full and standing. I imagine there'll be plenty of seats on the 18:21 express, leaves Cardiff too late in my opinion...... 17:21 would have been a much better option! I'm sure the passenger figures will tell a tale....

Tbh, you were lucky the 1621 was a 175 at all as before the timetable change it was assumed it was gonna be a 150. :P

Adam

 

[Erniescooper]

Did Gerald actually go via Crewe today to Cardiff,did it only have one 67?

Yes it went via Crewe this morning with both 67's, when they tried to change ends at Chester this morning the 67 at the Holyhead end would'nt take traction.

 

[dancoupe22]

Just caught the 18:21 northbound (only went as far as Newport). The Mk3's look to have been refurbed to a high standard, with the same seats and seat coverings as the refurbed 158's. Plenty of tables (15 per carriage i think) with at-seat power sockets too. Wall ends have a similar pattern to the seat coverings and the carpeting is the same as ATW's other refurbed units.

Sadly though there were only 2 standard class carriages (both well loaded) and the usual 1 first class kitchen (I counted 8 passengers). Hopefully another standard class carriage will be added as more become available.

 

[merlodlliw]

Just caught the 18:21 northbound (only went as far as Newport). The Mk3's look to have been refurbed to a high standard, with the same seats and seat coverings as the refurbed 158's. Plenty of tables (15 per carriage i think) with at-seat power sockets too. Wall ends have a similar pattern to the seat coverings and the carpeting is the same as ATW's other refurbed units.

Sadly though there were only 2 standard class carriages (both well loaded) and the usual 1 first class kitchen (I counted 8 passengers). Hopefully another standard class carriage will be added as more become available.

Many thanks, has its raining now, I wont bother to join the throng at Wrexham General, as Gerald is demoted to two standard class mark 3s.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes it went via Crewe this morning with both 67's, when they tried to change ends at Chester this morning the 67 at the Holyhead end would'nt take traction.

Oh dear, was it on platform two or three, if it was two bay I suppose it would have been cancelled, seems like a power connection problem between the 67s and On the last mark two run as well.

Bob

 

[Chester025]

Oh dear, was it on platform two or three, if it was two bay I suppose it would have been cancelled, seems like a power connection problem between the 67s and On the last mark two run as well.

It did run through to Cardiff via Crewe running about 35 late down the Marches.

 

[SprinterMan]

Guess where I have been :P...............

Pullman really have done a very good job with the coaches. The whole interior is basically the same as in the refurbished 158s, right down to the lighting diffusers and decor. The lights are much dimmer than in an FGW HST or ATW 158 so the travelling environment is much more relaxing. They are better than the Mark 2s in the same way a refurbished 158 is better than a 150. They are my new favourite stock :P. Buffet coach 10249 has been repainted, despite already being in ATW WAG livery, and some adjustments have been made. The Gold & Red stripe signifying first class & buffet car has gone, and the "first class" lettering is slightly smaller, and one of the new "Welsh Government" stickers that are being added to the 158s has been added. All the coaches were spotless inside and out, although one of the inter-carriage doors on one of the new Mark 3s was stuck open.

Adam

 

[ainsworth74]

Comments stating that they've ruined the Mk3s starting in 3... 2... 1...



Looks good to me. Have they put new seats in first class as well?

 

[SprinterMan]

Comments stating that they've ruined the Mk3s starting in 3... 2... 1...



Looks good to me. Have they put new seats in first class as well?

Nope, 1st class interiors are the same as before.
If people don't like Grammer seats, then it would not surprise me if they didn't like the new coaches, but I love them :P

Adam

 

[merlodlliw]

Nope, 1st class interiors are the same as before.
If people don't like Grammer seats, then it would not surprise me if they didn't like the new coaches, but I love them :P

Adam

Well done sprinterman, as you say like a refurb DMU without the engine noise underneath,

Bob

 

[Rhydgaled]

10249, seen in that photo, is one of the existing ATW restaurant vehicles. I can think of no good reason why they would be replaced with other, identical carriages.

Well, if they needed to take it out of service for quite a while to re-paint it (and perhaps through-wires for DVTs, but it could well have had them already) they might have had to drop the buffet car from the service train for a while, so replacing the vehicles with newly refurbished ones would have ensured the 1st class buffet car was always available.

Gerald is demoted to two standard class mark 3s.

Is this just urgently trying to end having to top and tail with 67s due to late delivery of the mark3s or were only four mark 3s (two for service and two spares) put into Pullman rail for refurbishment?

 

[sprinterguy]

Well, if they needed to take it out of service for quite a while to re-paint it (and perhaps through-wires for DVTs, but it could well have had them already) they might have had to drop the buffet car from the service train for a while, so replacing the vehicles with newly refurbished ones would have ensured the 1st class buffet car was always available.

ATW do have two mark 3 buffet cars available to them though, and I'm still not sure that the wiring of the mark 3s requires changing to allow class 67s to work in multiple with the DVTs, based on Chiltern's use of a motley collection of unrefurbished mark 3s on the Banbury commuter rake.

 

[Rhydgaled]

ATW do have two mark 3 buffet cars available to them though, and I'm still not sure that the wiring of the mark 3s requires changing to allow class 67s to work in multiple with the DVTs, based on Chiltern's use of a motley collection of unrefurbished mark 3s on the Banbury commuter rake.

I expect the same wiring in the coaches is used for 67 + DVT as was used for electric loco + DVT. However I think some stock (not sure if it was mrk3s though) used the lighting curcuit for the TDM comunications between loco and DVT instead of dedicated through-wiring and that this proved unreliable so stock that worked if DVTs received dedicated wiring. If I'm correct (and there's a fair chance I'm not), it would depend on whether ATW's mrk3s were given dedicated DVT wiring or not in their previous lives.

 

[rftorf]

A few photos I took this morning at Cardiff Central of the WAG Express.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/68980550@N03/8080475929/in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/68980550@N03/8080470194/in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/68980550@N03/8080476969/in/photostream

 

[sprinterguy]

I expect the same wiring in the coaches is used for 67 + DVT as was used for electric loco + DVT. However I think some stock (not sure if it was mrk3s though) used the lighting curcuit for the TDM comunications between loco and DVT instead of dedicated through-wiring and that this proved unreliable so stock that worked if DVTs received dedicated wiring. If I'm correct (and there's a fair chance I'm not), it would depend on whether ATW's mrk3s were given dedicated DVT wiring or not in their previous lives.

I recall something about TDM signals being sent through via the lighting circuits as well, but I also cannot remember what it applied to. The HST sets that were modifed to work with class 91s in the late eighties utilised the lighting circuits to transmit TDM signals between loco and power car for certain. On another note though, all the loco hauled passenger mark 3s were West Coast stock, and they all worked with mark 3 DVTs.

 

[ainsworth74]

I recall something about TDM signals being sent through via the lighting circuits as well, but I also cannot remember what it applied to.

I'm fairly sure it's all loco hauled Mk3s that use standard RCH jumpers to transmit TDM signals through the existing wiring (such as lighting circtuits). One of the main causes of failure (or at least it used to be back in NXEA days) on GA is the TDM failing and not allowing the loco to talk to the DVT due to the use of a non-dedicated circuit.

Though wouldn't a 67 and DVT be using AAR rather than TDM?

 

[merlodlliw]

It will be interesting to see what stock is used for Rugex in the future, ATW used about six mark 2s Plus of course now via Wrexham.

One point the service was little used to Cardiff, carrying far more on the return to South Wales destinations , we shall see.

I also presume they could use Mark 2s as a push & pull, also interesting the Rugex to Scotland next year run by ATW & provider leaves Wrexham out when there would be no need to run around, perhaps paths are the problem on the last year of single tracking to Saltney.

Bob

 

[sprinterguy]

Though wouldn't a 67 and DVT be using AAR rather than TDM?

Yes, indeed they do. My original query was whether this required any alteration to the carriage wiring compared to TDM operation.

 

[PHILIPE]

It will be interesting to see what stock is used for Rugex in the future, ATW used about six mark 2s Plus of course now via Wrexham.

One point the service was little used to Cardiff, carrying far more on the return to South Wales destinations , we shall see.

I also presume they could use Mark 2s as a push & pull, also interesting the Rugex to Scotland next year run by ATW & provider leaves Wrexham out when there would be no need to run around, perhaps paths are the problem on the last year of single tracking to Saltney.

Bob

The Rugex was poorly used because ATW did not advertise it. Their policy is usually to say there is extra capacity but it's up to you to find out through Journer Planner, NRES etc. when a few words are all that is needed to briefly summarise the changes on their Website. People travelling to the match would probably find more convenient times on Journey Planner without realising there was a Special train. This resulted in overcrowding on normal services.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Is new Gerald any more disabled-persons friendly than the old one (accessible toilets etc.)? I not, perhaps Pullman are working on a third TSO for the set which will have such features, could that be the case? I really hope the current 67 + buffet + 2x TSO + DVT formation is only temporary and it will be lengthened. Then again, ATW might have decided that the new times would be less popular and that fewer coaches would be needed than old WAG.

 

[merlodlliw]

The Rugex was poorly used because ATW did not advertise it. Their policy is usually to say there is extra capacity but it's up to you to find out through Journer Planner, NRES etc. when a few words are all that is needed to briefly summarise the changes on their Website. People travelling to the match would probably find more convenient times on Journey Planner without realising there was a Special train. This resulted in overcrowding on normal services.

I fully agree, it mystified many up here why ATW only advertised it once & that route was via Wrexham for a change. It always seemed a waste of money to have six mark2s and two locos carrying less than a dozen pax to Cardiff,some of whom were ATW staff so in the loop.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is new Gerald any more disabled-persons friendly than the old one (accessible toilets etc.)? I not, perhaps Pullman are working on a third TSO for the set which will have such features, could that be the case? I really hope the current 67 + buffet + 2x TSO + DVT formation is only temporary and it will be lengthened. Then again, ATW might have decided that the new times would be less popular and that fewer coaches would be needed than old WAG.

Not been on it yet, but I would be amazed if Pullman have not taken the equalities act into its work,presume you mean wheelchair user toilets.

Bob

 

[sprinterguy]

Then again, ATW might have decided that the new times would be less popular and that fewer coaches would be needed than old WAG.

That wouldn't be much of a commercial decision, to re-time a train service in order to make it less popular!

 

[Gareth Marston]

That wouldn't be much of a commercial decision, to re-time a train service in order to make it less popular!

there are many who query ATW's commercial credentials.

 

[jones_bangor]

That wouldn't be much of a commercial decision, to re-time a train service in order to make it less popular!

The 18:21 departure is indeed too late, 2 x standards would be adequate in my book. Who wants to get home very late at night?!! A strange logic by WG.....

 

[merlodlliw]

The 18:21 departure is indeed too late, 2 x standards would be adequate in my book. Who wants to get home very late at night?!! A strange logic by WG.....

indeed I agree,a night mare for catering staff whom I understand leave Holyhead then return on the first train back from Cardiff,likewise a second set leave Holyhead by 175 for the return run, the timings have not been well thought out,also has we are again restricted from seeing an ATW draft timetable so no one knows what will really happen from Dec 9th.
I presume the Chef is put up in an hotel at Rhyl, as he now works from the town?

 

[TDK]

That all ties up,Ill get me flag out at Wrexham General tomorrow evening,its just like W/S returning, but to platform two not three,this must be the best train on rails anywhere in Wales or the UK since W/S.(did i really say that )

Bob

You cannot compare it with WSMR

 

[voyagerdude220]

The 18:21 has today run via Crewe, due to a signalling problem at Wrexham General. Nres reports that busses are running between Chester and Shrewsbury via Chirk until further notice.