Antisocial behaviour on trains

[Seacook]

O A pint of Fosters has the same effect as a pint of Pride.

I doubt it. Pride always gave me the runs.

 

[bramling]

It's fine to suggest closing pubs and clubs, but surely we don't all live to work, so to get rid of things people like to do for leisure is rather silly.

What you do is change attitudes, which can surely be done? It didn't take many years to see almost everyone get addicted to smartphones and spend their life on them, preferring to communicate with people that are miles away than those just metres away. At some point, we're going to need to try and stop this - and I'm very much a victim and was so years before most given my line of work.

I don't propose pricing booze so high it will either be only for the rich, or will just mean people still drink anyway but now have no money left for anything else.

There are plenty of other leisure activities people can do which don't impose negative external costs, and pubs & clubs can develop experiences which people enjoy which don't involve alcohol and the negative effects it has on behaviours.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think this might be the most sensible thing I've read on this thread. Increasing indirect taxes like VAT and alcohol/tobacco duties always disproportionately affect the poorest, and no price is going to stop an addict if they want a drink therefore pushing them further towards 'lawlessness,' or a life of crime, desperation and despondency. To try and ban or tax things into obsolescence is the worst form of populism and scores zilch for policy creativity or dynamism. What's needed is a serious look at 24 hour drinking and how the supermarkets can get away with selling staggering amounts of alcohol for a fraction of what you'd pay in the pubs and clubs (which means people tank-up and are already p*ssed before they even leave the house, rather than going to a pub and consuming alcohol in an at least partially-controlled environment.)

Maybe more could be done, but I don't see any evidence that eduating on the effects of alcohol is having any effect at all.

 

[samj]

I disagree. Pubs and clubs shouldn't have to be closed because of the minority.

 

[al78]

There are plenty of other leisure activities people can do which don't impose negative external costs ...

True, but it does seem that humans, as a species, seem disproportionately attracted to activities that are risky and/or destructive in some way, either to themselves or to others. Reminds me of a quote from the film Terminator 2:

John Conor: "We're not going to make it, people I mean."
T2: "It is in your nature to destroy yourselves."

 

[Hyphen]

Alright, I'll fall for it - what reckless behaviour has Brian Souter been up to that you don't like ?

The usual arguments about privatisation of the railways, subsidy and profit, etc. Take your pick from the RUK archives - there's more than enough to choose from

 

[EM2]

The issue with people urinating in town centres once kicked out of closed pubs etc is because there are no public toilets. In most other countries there are, even late at night, albeit for a fee.

It makes no difference. We have free toilets on the station, of which at least two are always open, and people *still* urinate on the platform, in corners or up the outside wall.

 

[muz379]

It makes no difference. We have free toilets on the station, of which at least two are always open, and people *still* urinate on the platform, in corners or up the outside wall.

indeed was just about to point out that I know of several places where there are public toilets available but people still urinate in doorways to peoples homes and places of work . A completely unacceptable thing to do

 

[Bletchleyite]

No excuse for not providing them. Many would use them.

 

[muz379]

No excuse for not providing them. Many would use them.

I highly doubt it because in places where they are provided already they are not used .

Several train stations I have been in with toilets and yet seen people urinating somewhere that is not the toilet .

Hell in Manchester City Center I have seen someone urinating on the side of the structure that is actually a public toilet .

 

[satisnek]

A pint of Fosters has the same effect as a pint of Pride.

Almost. Fizzy lager will get into the system quicker than cask ale.

But as I implied earlier in this thread, it's not the drink, it's the innate character of the person drinking it.

It just so happens that those who have an inclination towards anti-social behaviour tend to drink lager, but I agree, it's by no means exclusive.

 

[Robertj21a]

The usual arguments about privatisation of the railways, subsidy and profit, etc. Take your pick from the RUK archives - there's more than enough to choose from

Ah, so nothing specific to Brian Souter, just the usual dislike of anyone who uses his skills to build up a successful business.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

The last Bristol - Frome also has two Guards on board, as do some late Paddington to Bristol trains.

Yeah, and super rammed! Done this on either an advance back home or last trip on a rover to get back to Trowbridge, I've never had a ticket check on this, weather any of the party goers on board have one is another matter!

 

[jon0844]

Ah, so nothing specific to Brian Souter, just the usual dislike of anyone who uses his skills to build up a successful business.

Unless you're Richard Branson. Then you're okay.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Several train stations I have been in with toilets and yet seen people urinating somewhere that is not the toilet .

So because some people don't use them, nobody would?

Hell in Manchester City Center I have seen someone urinating on the side of the structure that is actually a public toilet .

Just like people who throw litter on the floor rather than in the bin, there are always idiots. But if there are proper public toilets, at least you've got reasonable moral grounds for throwing them in the cells for the night when they do (at least).

The UK's non-provision of public toilets is a scandal. And closing station toilets at 8-9pm is as well. Keep them open, and have attendants on duty to prevent antisocial behaviour.

Neil

 

[muz379]

The UK's non-provision of public toilets is a scandal. And closing station toilets at 8-9pm is as well. Keep them open, and have attendants on duty to prevent antisocial behaviour.

Neil

I harderly consider it a scandal . elderly people being abused in care homes on a prolific scale , or MP's expenses was a scandal .

Non provision of public toilets is far from what I would consider as one .

Who is going to end up paying for these public toilets , and attendants ?

 

[NI 271]

. .

 

[BestWestern]

Yeah, and super rammed! Done this on either an advance back home or last trip on a rover to get back to Trowbridge, I've never had a ticket check on this, weather any of the party goers on board have one is another matter!

Highly unlikely. These are the sort of trains where the sensible approach is simply to get them there. Though a decent Guard should certainly patrol the train, particularly if he has a colleague to assist him.

 

[josh-j]

Highly unlikely. These are the sort of trains where the sensible approach is simply to get them there. Though a decent Guard should certainly patrol the train, particularly if he has a colleague to assist him.

I can of course understand this from a safety perspective and certainly don't think a guard should have to intervene in a potentially dangerous situation to ask for tickets. However...

It says something when those who should really have no entitlement to be travelling on a train because they are abusive, disruptive etc. are able to do so anyway without any problems because there aren't the resources to stop them.
They probably feel they are somehow entitled to not pay.

More funding to the BTP please :mad:

 

[Starmill]

The last train on my line would probably run with around half as many passengers as it does if you had to pay to use it. That's on TPE as well - and there is First Class!