Antisocial behaviour on trains

[anti-pacer]

Where in the UK has specific problems with this, such as fare evasion, passengers being drunk and disorderly or generally problematic, robberies, etc?

Do all TOC's deal with it effectively, with the help of BTP or do some have less of a zero tolerance approach to it?

 

[syorksdeano]

Doncaster on the last train to Goole on a weekend must be high on the list

 

[samj]

Late night Manchester-Blackpool services must be on the list too.

 

[Kristofferson]

The Birmingham suburbs seem to be full of bored children. Lea Hall, Stechford and Adderley Park (the last 3 stations south of New Street) are trespass hotspots.

I even saw a kid (must have been 10?) climbing the signals at Kings Norton FFS. I did text BTP and they did seem interested, but the child got on a train before they turned up. Not sure if they picked him up further down the line.

 

[BestWestern]

The last service from Weymouth towards Bristol is double manned (two Guards), and on a saturday has a regular BTP escort. The last Bristol - Frome also has two Guards on board, as do some late Paddington to Bristol trains. Evening services on the Portsmouth - Cardiff route omit Cosham, in the Portsmouth suburbs, and have done for years. Bridgwater, between Bristol and Taunton, has a well versed reputation for problematic clientele.

 

[Mugby]

The last Friday and Saturday night trains on The Hallam Line, Sheffield - Barnsley - Leeds were withdrawn completely because of the continual trouble on them.

The last train on Saturday night from Sheffield is now 21.06.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

In 25 years of travelling in the SE - at many times of day and night - never had a problem.

One might construe this as a fact finding search for the tabloid press. I reckon most antisocial behaviour is found near pubs , clubs and kebab shops. Tenuous link perhaps with the pro drink lobby in Big Business ? - you can trawl through the BTP stats for patterns - but reported crime is down (generally) on the rail system.

 

[alexl92]

It's not quite antisocial on the level that you're getting at but some Friday/Saturday night TPE services between Leeds & Manc can have a fair quantity of drunks on whose general rowdiness can make travelling quite unpleasant for those who are tired and just want to get home!

 

[Chrism20]

IIRC a couple of the late Carlisle-Whitehaven services have BTP officers onboard due to issues.

Edit - here is the newspaper report from a year back regarding the trouble.

http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/b...rvice-after-police-officer-attacked-1.1105263

 

[Carlisle]

The last Friday and Saturday night trains on The Hallam Line, Sheffield - Barnsley - Leeds were withdrawn completely because of the continual trouble on them.

The last train on Saturday night from Sheffield is now 21.06.

Should a TOC be allowed merely to just withdraw services like you say has happened here ? Weather they like it or not for now anyway they are providing a public service funded mostly by us taxpayers

 

[Antman]

It's not quite antisocial on the level that you're getting at but some Friday/Saturday night TPE services between Leeds & Manc can have a fair quantity of drunks on whose general rowdiness can make travelling quite unpleasant for those who are tired and just want to get home!

The same is true about many trains out of London on a Friday and Saturday night although the onset of CCTV has reduced crime

 

[Mag_seven]

Its all very well declaring trains "dry" but most of the trouble makers are already drunk when they get on the train - the onboard police should prevent them from getting on.

 

[thenorthern]

For ticket less travel Virgin Trains from Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport into Manchester Piccadilly are very bad.

The last First Transpennie Express from Lancaster to Barrow-in-Furness has a sobriety test where passengers are refused boarding if they are drunk and dangerous.

Football trains seem to be quite bad with some fans being worse than others.

 

[Temple Meads]

What do you do with people who you prevent from travelling, though?

A drunken individual who's refused travel is likely to become aggressive, and if you let them loose in town, then what can you do apart from using valuable police resources to watch/hold them until they sober up?!

 

[satisnek]

Travelling on the last train from Birmingham to Worcester via Kidderminster on Saturdays used to be a bit like playing Russian roulette in the old days but some years back the BTP and the TOC (may have been Central Trains at the time) made a very good job of cleaning it up. When I've had reason to use it in recent years it's very refreshing to see a busy train full of 'normal' people. Good work!

The last train in the opposite direction from Worcester can still be problematic I believe.

 

[Robertj21a]

What do you do with people who you prevent from travelling, though?

A drunken individual who's refused travel is likely to become aggressive, and if you let them loose in town, then what can you do apart from using valuable police resources to watch/hold them until they sober up?!

Surely it's far more sensible to leave drunks where the police can deal with them. A good night in the cells may make a few think another time. Why should a train load of passengers, with just 1-2 members of staff have to cope with it ?

Of course, the fundamental problem is our on-going inbility to dramatically reduce drunkeness.

 

[Antman]

For ticket less travel Virgin Trains from Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport into Manchester Piccadilly are very bad.

The last First Transpennie Express from Lancaster to Barrow-in-Furness has a sobriety test where passengers are refused boarding if they are drunk and dangerous.

Football trains seem to be quite bad with some fans being worse than others.

But who decides who is or isn't dangerous?

 

[Iskra]

But who decides who is or isn't dangerous?

That train has bouncers on it. Actually, the test isn't if you're dangerous- it's if you're able to walk or not.

 

[Parallel]

The last service from Weymouth towards Bristol is double manned (two Guards), and on a saturday has a regular BTP escort. The last Bristol - Frome also has two Guards on board, as do some late Paddington to Bristol trains. Evening services on the Portsmouth - Cardiff route omit Cosham, in the Portsmouth suburbs, and have done for years. Bridgwater, between Bristol and Taunton, has a well versed reputation for problematic clientele.

The last Weymouth - Bristol train on Saturdays is also a dry train - Passengers are not even allowed to carry alcohol with them.

The last Bristol - Frome train on the weekend is definitely an experience - Two guards unfortunately do not act as a deterrent and they generally don't walk through the train. This train is usually full of groups of people who have just had a night out in Bristol and Bath and are a little rowdy!

I know that alcohol consumption some lines north of Pontypridd are prohibited too. Was it just to Merthyr Tydfil, or all three lines?

 

[Gemz91]

Surely it's far more sensible to leave drunks where the police can deal with them. A good night in the cells may make a few think another time. Why should a train load of passengers, with just 1-2 members of staff have to cope with it ?

Of course, the fundamental problem is our on-going inbility to dramatically reduce drunkeness.

Would think the police would rather put them on a train so they become another police forces problem at the other end.

 

[plastictaffy]

It's all well and good the BTP (Be There Possibly being good at what they do (and on the whole, they are) but I find late at night coming off London, they'd rather just put them on a train for the Guard to deal with at the other end. Of course, the staff at the station could help when you get there.......oh, wait, no, TOC's have decided that their stations don't need staff 24 hours a day.

 

[Hyphen]

I know that alcohol consumption some lines north of Pontypridd are prohibited too. Was it just to Merthyr Tydfil, or all three lines?

I think the 'permanent' ban is just Pontypridd to Merthyr, although I'm sure I've seen similar messages on the Cardiff departure boards for Aberdare trains (possibly because they share the Abercynon stop?). Could have been special measures after an event in Cardiff though.

It's incredibly rare I use Valleys trains though, so tend not to pay too much attention to that side of the departure boards.

 

[alexl92]

What do you do with people who you prevent from travelling, though?

A drunken individual who's refused travel is likely to become aggressive, and if you let them loose in town, then what can you do apart from using valuable police resources to watch/hold them until they sober up?!

A night in the cells + a fine would probably discourage future re-offending. If they've got the money to waste on the alcohol they can waste a bit more of their hard-earned contributing to the costs of being dealt with for a night.

 

[samj]

East Coast/Grand Central services out of London Kings Cross towards the North East sometimes on Saturday evenings are dry trains if Newcastle/Sunderland have been playing in London.

Southern's services on the West Coastway can also be problematic from what I have heard between Brighton and Chichester.

I have seen Police at Blackpool Pleasure Beach station on Saturday evenings in the Summer patrolling the services to Preston.

 

[Antman]

A night in the cells + a fine would probably discourage future re-offending. If they've got the money to waste on the alcohol they can waste a bit more of their hard-earned contributing to the costs of being dealt with for a night.

The trouble is the police don't have an infinite amount of cell space, as it is those arrested often have to be transported some distance which ties up police officers for a considerable amount of time, bit of a catch 22 really.

 

[swj99]

A drunken individual who's refused travel is likely to become aggressive, and if you let them loose in town, then what can you do apart from using valuable police resources to watch/hold them until they sober up?!

Fair point.
I think it's part of a wider problem, and is likely to become worse unless this type of antisocial behaviour is highlighted and stamped out. At the moment, society is suffering and being further damaged because nothing constructive is really being done about this, with the usual excuses being presented that it's because of a lack of resources, austerity, etc.

A night in the cells + a fine would probably discourage future re-offending. If they've got the money to waste on the alcohol they can waste a bit more of their hard-earned contributing to the costs of being dealt with for a night.

Well it's a start I suppose. But I can't help thinking the current system (and sentencing guidelines) don't provide an adequate deterrent. If they did, then people would be too scared of the consequences to behave like tw@ts, and the antisocial behaviour wouldn't happen.

I think too many people try to use alcohol as a reason or an excuse for twuntish behaviour. Basically, if people don't behave in a peaceful manner in public, they need to be dealt with in a way which protects society and acts as a proper deterrent.

 

[satisnek]

I think too many people try to use alcohol as a reason or an excuse for twuntish behaviour. Basically, if people don't behave in a peaceful manner in public, they need to be dealt with in a way which protects society and acts as a proper deterrent.

Quite right. Remember that alcohol merely releases inhibitions - it doesn't alter character. Millions of people consume alcohol and don't become violent or abusive. A drunken thug is a repressed thug when sober. When this is realised we might start getting somewhere.

 

[PHILIPE]

The last Weymouth - Bristol train on Saturdays is also a dry train - Passengers are not even allowed to carry alcohol with them.

The last Bristol - Frome train on the weekend is definitely an experience - Two guards unfortunately do not act as a deterrent and they generally don't walk through the train. This train is usually full of groups of people who have just had a night out in Bristol and Bath and are a little rowdy!

I know that alcohol consumption some lines north of Pontypridd are prohibited too. Was it just to Merthyr Tydfil, or all three lines?

All lines north of Pontypridd and also above Caerphilly on the Rhymney Valley Line

 

[arabianights]

*vomits all over the thread*

yer cumon thne you gricer nobs oooooz still gottit im the king of the castle me

*sways gently*

*falls backwards*

*hits head*

*passes out*

 

[45107]

Fair point.
I think it's part of a wider problem, and is likely to become worse unless this type of antisocial behaviour is highlighted and stamped out. At the moment, society is suffering and being further damaged because nothing constructive is really being done about this, with the usual excuses being presented that it's because of a lack of resources, austerity, etc.


Well it's a start I suppose. But I can't help thinking the current system (and sentencing guidelines) don't provide an adequate deterrent. If they did, then people would be too scared of the consequences to behave like tw@ts, and the antisocial behaviour wouldn't happen.

I think too many people try to use alcohol as a reason or an excuse for twuntish behaviour. Basically, if people don't behave in a peaceful manner in public, they need to be dealt with in a way which protects society and acts as a proper deterrent.

And your solution to the problem is ?
We are in a me, me, me society now