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Another Northern Fail

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Eric

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A transport authority has criticised a rail operator for its “poor” performance in tackling overcrowding on Bradford’s trains.

Passengers using Northern Rail trains in the district also saw a decline in the quality of services at stations, train shortages and maintenance problems, a report by transport authority Metro has found.

It comes after the rail company hiked fares by an average of 6.7 per cent at the beginning of the month – adding around 20p to 30p to ever journey.

Now frustrated commuters who use rush-hour trains into Bradford and local rail groups have vented their anger and say they are being forced to pay higher fares for an increasingly poor service.

Commuter Lesley McGorr-igan, from Saltaire, travels daily on Northern trains and is a Metro annual season ticket holder.

She sent the picture (right) to the Telegraph & Argus of what she described as “chronic overcrowding” on the evening rush hour Leeds to Skipton train.

“This overcrowding in the rush hour occurs every weekday,” she said.

The comments follow the publication of a report to the Council’s Bradford District Liaison Committee, which is responsible for monitoring bus and rail performance in the district.

The report by Metro stated so-called “strengthening” – adding extra carriages during rush hour – had been “poor” in the last three months.

The continued shortage of diesel trains also “continued to be a problem”, the report claimed.

Mick Swales, 44, who travels to work in Bradford city centre from Bingley, said: “I appreciate that there has got to be investment in the service and somebody has got to pay for it, but it is frustrating that there are fare rises when the service is unreliable.”

In its report, Metro also highlighted details of delays and cancellations caused by cable theft over 12 months to November last year.

They peaked in April with 4,000 minutes of delays across West and North Yorkshire.

Power failures and the death of a 14-year-old Bradford schoolboy, Hassan Mir, have also led to major delays on the network, according to the report.

A Northern train was stranded near Menston when a tree fell on the line on January 4. Passengers had to wait for engineers from Tadcaster to arrive before they were allowed off the train.

Tim Calow, chairman of the Aire Valley Rail User Group (AVRUG) said one of the major problems facing commuters is Northern’s “ageing” fleet of trains.

The new trains it secured in December were diesels previously used in London and Birmingham, which were built in the mid to late 1980s.

Five “new” electric trains used on the Airedale and Wharfedale lines were sent south from Scotland, he said.

He added: “We find it unreasonable that the fare increases in Yorkshire are higher than the rest of the country when we are not getting new trains. We are not getting the big investment, which is largely in London and the South East. What we are getting is extra trains but they are 20 to 25 years old.”

James Vasey, chairman of Bradford Rail User Group (BRUG), also criticised the fleet. He said: “The problem is that Northern gets hand-me-downs from all over the country, then they get lumbered with fixing them, meaning they cannot run some at peak times.

“Everything we get is usually second hand and, unfortunately the south of England comes first. There is a north-south divide.”

Northern Rail was unavailable for comment ahead of publication.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Does this have anything to do with the fact that the government spent over £2000 per head on transport nationally for people who reside in London, yet only £200 for me?
 
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Lampshade

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How can a fallen tree be Northern's fault?

Also, please provide the source when directly quoting an article.
 

John55

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A transport authority has criticised a rail operator for its “poor” performance in tackling overcrowding on Bradford’s trains.

Passengers using Northern Rail trains in the district also saw a decline in the quality of services at stations, train shortages and maintenance problems, a report by transport authority Metro has found.

It comes after the rail company hiked fares by an average of 6.7 per cent at the beginning of the month – adding around 20p to 30p to ever journey.

Now frustrated commuters who use rush-hour trains into Bradford and local rail groups have vented their anger and say they are being forced to pay higher fares for an increasingly poor service.

Commuter Lesley McGorr-igan, from Saltaire, travels daily on Northern trains and is a Metro annual season ticket holder.

She sent the picture (right) to the Telegraph & Argus of what she described as “chronic overcrowding” on the evening rush hour Leeds to Skipton train.

“This overcrowding in the rush hour occurs every weekday,” she said.

The comments follow the publication of a report to the Council’s Bradford District Liaison Committee, which is responsible for monitoring bus and rail performance in the district.

The report by Metro stated so-called “strengthening” – adding extra carriages during rush hour – had been “poor” in the last three months.

The continued shortage of diesel trains also “continued to be a problem”, the report claimed.

Mick Swales, 44, who travels to work in Bradford city centre from Bingley, said: “I appreciate that there has got to be investment in the service and somebody has got to pay for it, but it is frustrating that there are fare rises when the service is unreliable.”

In its report, Metro also highlighted details of delays and cancellations caused by cable theft over 12 months to November last year.

They peaked in April with 4,000 minutes of delays across West and North Yorkshire.

Power failures and the death of a 14-year-old Bradford schoolboy, Hassan Mir, have also led to major delays on the network, according to the report.

A Northern train was stranded near Menston when a tree fell on the line on January 4. Passengers had to wait for engineers from Tadcaster to arrive before they were allowed off the train.

Tim Calow, chairman of the Aire Valley Rail User Group (AVRUG) said one of the major problems facing commuters is Northern’s “ageing” fleet of trains.

The new trains it secured in December were diesels previously used in London and Birmingham, which were built in the mid to late 1980s.

Five “new” electric trains used on the Airedale and Wharfedale lines were sent south from Scotland, he said.

He added: “We find it unreasonable that the fare increases in Yorkshire are higher than the rest of the country when we are not getting new trains. We are not getting the big investment, which is largely in London and the South East. What we are getting is extra trains but they are 20 to 25 years old.”

James Vasey, chairman of Bradford Rail User Group (BRUG), also criticised the fleet. He said: “The problem is that Northern gets hand-me-downs from all over the country, then they get lumbered with fixing them, meaning they cannot run some at peak times.

“Everything we get is usually second hand and, unfortunately the south of England comes first. There is a north-south divide.”

Northern Rail was unavailable for comment ahead of publication.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Does this have anything to do with the fact that the government spent over £2000 per head on transport nationally for people who reside in London, yet only £200 for me?


If you are going to quote from another forum and/or the Bradford papers you should acknowledge your source.
 

AlterEgo

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It's very unfair to use that hackneyed term "Northern Fail" when actually, the majority of issues raised in the original post aren't really Northern's fault!

Northern invest heavily where it matters - in their staff. I have travelled quite a bit across their network and never once been disappointed in the knowledge or attitude of any of their staff.

No, I don't work for them! :)
 

Bellwater

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on a 158
'The Problem is Northern gets hand me downs from other companies'

Posted from a Northern 156 with 'East Midlands Trains' on the side.
 

Ivo

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Obviously someone has forgotten, among other things, the 333s that were bought for local services from Leeds and Bradford...

They can complain about fare rises all they want; it won't change anything. Prices are (mostly?) steeper down south anyway.
 

YorkshireBear

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'The Problem is Northern gets hand me downs from other companies'

Posted from a Northern 156 with 'East Midlands Trains' on the side.

some say the 156s are better than the 150s they got in return so in this case although true northern lost out ;)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Obviously someone has forgotten, among other things, the 333s that were bought for local services from Leeds and Bradford...

They can complain about fare rises all they want; it won't change anything. Prices are (mostly?) steeper down south anyway.

Its a ridiculous article though really isnt it....

WYPTE still has some of the cheapest fares avaliable in the country hardly more expensive than rest of country is it.
 

tom1649

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Why don't WYPTE/Metro blame the Government for these problems rather than Northern?
 

Pumbaa

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Northern invest heavily where it matters - in their staff. I have travelled quite a bit across their network and never once been disappointed in the knowledge or attitude of any of their staff.

:| I think you'll struggle to find Northern staff who consider the Abellio operation has 'invested' in them. Some NW based staff are actively wishing First back, and that's saying something!
 

Anvil1984

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:| I think you'll struggle to find Northern staff who consider the Abellio operation has 'invested' in them. Some NW based staff are actively wishing First back, and that's saying something!

No comment on that at present ;)

But the article and the OP of the thread are just Northern bashing for Northern bashings sake. Those lines have actually had more new services and trains than many other lines. I do have sympathy but their are worse off lines in West Yorkshire
 

LCC106

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Does this have anything to do with the fact that the government spent over £2000 per head on transport nationally for people who reside in London, yet only £200 for me?

Not sure I understand this as bashing, rather drawing our attention to an article and explaining how the OP feels about government spending?
 

Nym

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Not to mention, but she's commuting from Saltaire, and that is on the Electric side of Bradford where you can't really add anything to the already 4 carriage long services ;)

And they've just had them ex. Scotrail units for added capacity.
 

Blindtraveler

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and my god they are missed!
If it was down to me wed have them back and send them 380s! :)
northern I think stil my favourit TOC and0ok the fleat may be a bit roapy but great staff and other than a cupple of S and C trips with faulty bogs iv never had issues with them
 

Schnellzug

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Is it Northern's fault that they haven't ordered more Carriages, or are they dependent on the Government for that? I think that's the nub, or the crux, of the question.
 

driver9000

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When it comes to Northern it is often conveniently left out of press reports that the franchise was let on a no growth and no investment franchise. The DfT didn't see the increase in passengers that Northern has experienced. In my opinion Northern has done well to get the additional units that they have done and secondhand stock is better than no stock, lets face it Northern was never going to get new rolling stock over other TOCs. Yes the trains are old and in need of tarting up or replacing but they do the job without too much fuss and hopefully the next franchise will address this. No TOC should have to beg the DfT for stock! The extra units do represent an attempt to provide capacity for the passengers even if they can't cure the problem or have access to hundreds of coaches or even have platforms long enough to take them. A lot of the delays mentioned in the OP are beyond Northerns control anyway.

As for having First or arriva as the franchise holder again? No thanks, I'd rather have Serco/Abellio.
 

MidnightFlyer

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Northern have a 0% growth clause in their franchise contract, so there's little they can do, ergo it's down to the Govt.
 

Schnellzug

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So have they, in fact, actually made more money than they'd anticipated when they bid for the contract? But not enough to be able to afford new trains, is that it?
 

driver9000

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So have they, in fact, actually made more money than they'd anticipated when they bid for the contract? But not enough to be able to afford new trains, is that it?

The franchise made no provision for new trains so they are unable to lease brand new stock. All the additions to the fleet have been fought for. The DfT simply won't allow it.
 

OuterDistant

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death of a 14-year-old Bradford schoolboy, Hassan Mir
What are they on about here? They've just plonked it in completely out of context, and I can't find any meaningful results in Google for such an incident.
 

PR1Berske

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I just want Northern Rail to be stripped of their franchise, is that too much ask :(
 

Nym

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And replaced with what? All the rolling stock will be the same and if it ends up in the paws of Arriva or Keolis expect every single service that has just been strengthened to be short formed and pacers scrapped with no replacement in sight.

If someone went to the DfT with the Northern Franchise bid stating they'd purchase 500 carriages of Class 172 or similar unit to replace everything <155 (And re-merge 153 units) then the DfT would laugh it out of the bidding process...
 

driver9000

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If Northern hadn't been given the franchise in 2004 this thread would be about the firm who did. No matter who had taken it on the franchise would still have been no growth, no investment. Another operator may not have tried as hard to get extra stock.
 

87015

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Northern have a 0% growth clause in their franchise contract, so there's little they can do, ergo it's down to the Govt.

They've walked away with enough profit this year, let alone others, to have been able to invest in plenty of things that would have made a difference. Its not just the quantity of rolling stock they suffer with, maybe if they maintained what they have better they'd be able to get more out? They reguarly seem to languish with fairly pathetic unit reliability and availability.

Still, easier to show a blank face and demand the government pays for anything and everything.
 

Schnellzug

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And replaced with what? All the rolling stock will be the same and if it ends up in the paws of Arriva or Keolis expect every single service that has just been strengthened to be short formed and pacers scrapped with no replacement in sight.

If someone went to the DfT with the Northern Franchise bid stating they'd purchase 500 carriages of Class 172 or similar unit to replace everything <155 (And re-merge 153 units) then the DfT would laugh it out of the bidding process...
All the more reason for the North to follow Scotland and tear itself away from the schackels of Westminster.
 
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