Another Northern Fail

[tbtc]

Instead of recreating the Wars of the Roses ad nauseum, why do we in "Northernland" not show a united front now until the end of the franchise and see how much common ground we have. The policy of "divide and rule" achieves absolutely nothing and is "music to the ears" of those who foster this self-defeating chain of thought.

Just putting things into perspective Paul...

It's not really a "Northernland" issue though - most of the "Provincial" (*) areas still have the mix of Pacers/150s/153s that they had under BR. The same could equally be said of Cardiff/ Bristol etc.

Instead of recreating a "North South Divide" yet again, we should consider why Provincial short-distance services haven't seen the leaps forward that other types of service have.

* - I say "Provincial" as in the BR sector

 

[LCC106]

I just want Northern Rail to be stripped of their franchise, is that too much ask

Noooo!!! That would mean no new job for me on Monday!

 

[Lampshade]

Are there more Northern EMUs on the east or west side?

And where is the majority of new electrification taking place in the rest of the decade?

17x323 on the west side, 16x333, 3x321 and 5x322 on the east.

Instead of recreating the Wars of the Roses ad nauseum, why do we in "Northernland" not show a united front now until the end of the franchise and see how much common ground we have. The policy of "divide and rule" achieves absolutely nothing and is "music to the ears" of those who foster this self-defeating chain of thought.

Fully agree. Good post.

Northern got older 150s to replace those 156s!

Northern did create a lot of publicity about extra seats in December and obviously many services didn't get strengthened and some of those that did get short formed whenever units are available.

Hazel Grove - Preston services are now nearly always 2x150, quite an improvement over before.

Not sure - at work we used to get two different payments from Northern's payrolls - one from York and one from Manchester, although not sure if anything has changed yet.

My bank statement suggests it's still separate, it says 'NORTHERN RAIL WEST' when I bought a ticket at Buckshaw Parkway in December, yet when I bought a ticket at Bradford Forster Square it says 'NORTHERN RAIL LTD'.

 

[Schnellzug]

Just putting things into perspective Paul...

It's not really a "Northernland" issue though - most of the "Provincial" (*) areas still have the mix of Pacers/150s/153s that they had under BR. The same could equally be said of Cardiff/ Bristol etc.

Instead of recreating a "North South Divide" yet again, we should consider why Provincial short-distance services haven't seen the leaps forward that other types of service have.

* - I say "Provincial" as in the BR sector

I definitely think it's east/west just as much as north/south; or even south-east/every other part of the country, really. Really, it's only London and the South East that Government's really bothered about, and of course prestigious InterCity routes that really Governments have no business messing about with anyway.

 

[balne-wonderer]

All i'll say is travel between Leeds and Hull fairly often.

I have a choice to use either the Nothern Rail service or the TPE service.....I bet you can figure out which one I ALWAYS use...!!

 

[northwichcat]

Hazel Grove - Preston services are now nearly always 2x150, quite an improvement over before.

Apart from 2x150s provides less capacity than a 180, which previously provided a peak time working.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So what is the "problem" with ageing trains? Just introducing new trains will not in itself increase capacity

It was likely decrease capacity unless the length of carriages are longer. Take the 185s compared to the 3 car 158s as an example.

Really DfT need to stop saying 1 carriage is 1 carriage, regardless of length or whether it has a driving cab or not.

Like I pointed out in a thread relating to track access costs 2 x 156s is approx the same length as 3 x 142s. So while 142s appear cheaper to run compared to Sprinters, they are proportionally more expensive to run.

 

[Schnellzug]

Don't the DfT like to talk about the number of seats now, so they can boast about how "Commuters will have 3,822 extra seats" or whatever?

 

[PR1Berske]

I definitely think it's east/west just as much as north/south; or even south-east/every other part of the country, really. Really, it's only London and the South East that Government's really bothered about, and of course prestigious InterCity routes that really Governments have no business messing about with anyway.

Well that's the most truth posted in this thread.

Manchester gets a larger bite of the apple, obviously, but it's the south where the investment goes

Imagine a northern Crossrail? You'd never have it. London conquers all.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

All i'll say is travel between Leeds and Hull fairly often.

I have a choice to use either the Nothern Rail service or the TPE service.....I bet you can figure out which one I ALWAYS use...!!

Well bearing in mind Northern don't serve Leeds-Hull direct, I'll guess the latter?

 

[WestCoast]

All i'll say is travel between Leeds and Hull fairly often.

I have a choice to use either the Nothern Rail service or the TPE service.....I bet you can figure out which one I ALWAYS use...!!

I often avoid TPE North West routes because they are often so crowded. Not really the TOCs fault though.

 

[ainsworth74]

It was likely decrease capacity unless the length of carriages are longer. Take the 185s compared to the 3 car 158s as an example.

Though of course it was an increase in capacity over the 2 car 158s that TPE also used.

 

[northwichcat]

Though of course it was an increase in capacity over the 2 car 158s that TPE also used.

But the 2 car 170s that TPE also got are smaller than the 2 car 158s.

I don't know the exact numbers but some of the 2 car 158s were reformed in to 3 car 158s.

 

[Schnellzug]

TPE had 17 3 car 158s, 798-814, now divided between Northern and SWT (with 1 with FGW).

 

[northwichcat]

TPE had 17 3 car 158s, 798-814, now divided between Northern and SWT (with 1 with FGW).

And they reformed a number of the 2 car 158s in to 3 car 158s.

Note the entire 158 fleet was for North and South TPE routes, 158s weren't used on the North West routes. While 3 car 185s replaced 175s on North West routes, the Voyager service to Scotland was axed in favour of diverting the 185 operated Windermere service, so the 'extra' carriages for TPE effectively disappeared in to thin air.