Adelantes for FGW (again?)

[hmp455]

Whilst passing Old Oak Common, I saw what appeared to be a Class 180 in one of the sheds. Does anyone know whether this train is coming to FGW or whether it was a Hull Trains unit in for repair?

It was in 'Dynamic Lines' livery

 

[150222]

It is a hull trains one as they have matinance at ooc.The spare 180's are still at northern.

 

[driver9000]

That will be a Hull Trains set.

Great Western are supposed to be getting 5 sets for Hereford-Paddington peak services (I think it was that service anyway). 3 from Northern and 2 from store.

 

[Aictos]

That will be a Hull Trains set.

Great Western are supposed to be getting 5 sets for Hereford-Paddington peak services (I think it was that service anyway). 3 from Northern and 2 from store.

Any idea when they will be in FGW service then, Dec 2011 maybe?

 

[northwichcat]

Any idea when they will be in FGW service then, Dec 2011 maybe?

Northern need the 142s back and the 150s from LM before they can release the 180s. Also the 4x156s to be released to EMT should be more of a priority as EMT drew up their May 2011 timetable based on having those units.

They'll also need to refurbish the FC section as using it as declassified means it gets heavily used and is not in good nick.

 

[Aictos]

Northern need the 142s back and the 150s from LM before they can release the 180s. Also the 4x156s to be released to EMT should be more of a priority as EMT drew up their May 2011 timetable based on having those units.

They'll also need to refurbish the FC section as using it as declassified means it gets heavily used and is not in good nick.

That being said and there not being a May 2012 timetable change (I'm not expecting one) - is it too much to expect the above cascade to be done in time for the Dec 2011 timetable change or are we looking towards Dec 2012?

 

[N Levers]

There's nothing stopping them being introduced (where-ever they go) in Dec 2011. Also nothing stopping them being introduced mid timetable. (Like in May 2012, or March 2012 or August 2012 or November 2012, or one week before the end of the timetable)

 

[northwichcat]

is it too much to expect the above cascade to be done in time for the Dec 2011 timetable change

No the above cascade should be possible in time but FGW also need to train/refresh crews on 180s before can be put in to passenger service.

 

[TheWalrus]

Its not likely to happen before 2012 they are expecting a decision in the next couple of months.

 

[Aictos]

Its not likely to happen before 2012 they are expecting a decision in the next couple of months.

So if and when the 180s do go back to FGW and hopefully are used on the Oxfords, what happens to the Turbos and HSTs currently being used on these services?

 

[NSE]

I imagine the Turbo's will simply be attached to other services and the HST's stuck on extra runs. I can't imagine they will lose any as no franchise will take the 166's and it would seem silly to take 5x180's to sacrifice HSTs.

 

[N Levers]

I can't imagine they will lose any as no franchise will take the 166's

*Cough*Chiltern*Cough*

 

[NSE]

*Cough*Chiltern*Cough*

I dunno, I doubt they'd take the 166's. If 166's displaced 165's then I could see Chiltern taking them. But I can't see a few 166's coming across.

 

[Jonny]

The other use I could see for the Adelantes is Newcastle to Middlesborough via the Stillington line or Darlington, with occasional detours elsewhere (Chathill perhaps?). Call me biassed, since it's my neck of the woods, but with enough tender loving care it might work (after all, they do run Doncaster to London King's Cross), doubly so if maintained at the same place as the GC ones.

 

[Aictos]

Not my area so can't comment on overcrowding on services but what services in the Thames Valley need to be strengthened?

 

[150222]

I don't think tyne valley services can justify 5 cars. Certain metro routes can such as carlisle and calder valley services however door(s) may have to be locked at some stations.

 

[Max]

I believe the intention was for a shared pool with Hull Trains, refurbishing all units to the same standard (power sockets, wifi, leather seats in FC etc.). This would provide Hull Trains an additional spare in case of breakdown too.

 

[TEW]

Not my area so can't comment on overcrowding on services but what services in the Thames Valley need to be strengthened?

Everything in the peak time which isn't already a double turbo. If the 180s return to FGW they should displace 166s on the Cotswold Line and Oxford fast runs. This will allow 166s to replace 165s on Reading-Gatwick services and allow 165s to be used to provide extra capacity out of London. There are still 2 180s which aren't used, except by Hull Trains when there's go wrong so they could be used for crew training while waiting for Northern to release their 180s.

 

[fgwrich]

I believe the intention was for a shared pool with Hull Trains, refurbishing all units to the same standard (power sockets, wifi, leather seats in FC etc.). This would provide Hull Trains an additional spare in case of breakdown too.

Good! Have to say that Hull Trains reccent refurb is rather smart! And suitible for FGW standard - heck, theyve even refreshed the seats in First Class with FGW Leather!

 

[IanXC]

There are still 2 180s which aren't used, except by Hull Trains when there's go wrong so they could be used for crew training while waiting for Northern to release their 180s.

Those 2 havent been used by anyone, for anything for quite some time! I understand that one of them particularly is in a very poor condition.

 

[Aictos]

Everything in the peak time which isn't already a double turbo. If the 180s return to FGW they should displace 166s on the Cotswold Line and Oxford fast runs. This will allow 166s to replace 165s on Reading-Gatwick services and allow 165s to be used to provide extra capacity out of London. There are still 2 180s which aren't used, except by Hull Trains when there's go wrong so they could be used for crew training while waiting for Northern to release their 180s.

Now that's more like it, thanks for the brief

 

[WillPS]

Isn't the idea of a shared pool going to be unattractive to the DfT as it would give FGW another big bargaining chip when it comes to their upcoming franchise renewal?

 

[Chris B]

Most of them in the Peak.

THe DfT hasn't yet decided where those 5 Adelantes are going - several TOCs have bid for them, including FGW. IF they arrive at FGW, then they are NOT going to all be allocated to the Oxford / Cotswold services - they might get one or two shoulder-peak trips - but elsewhere (?Mark Hopwood has said one might even end up one of the branches)

Other than needing a refresh and staff some training, they could go straight into service, definitely won't wait for a timetable change.

And the turbos - they'll all stay with FGW - at last some much needed strengthening will take place - and no, that plan isn't anywhere near complete yet, as there's no guarantee the 180s are coming to FGW yet.

 

[thefab444]

I did read that there was a crazy plan to put one on the Henley-on-Thames branch, but to me that just sounds stupid.

 

[northwichcat]

I believe the intention was for a shared pool with Hull Trains, refurbishing all units to the same standard (power sockets, wifi, leather seats in FC etc.). This would provide Hull Trains an additional spare in case of breakdown too.

Wouldn't it be more logical for a TPE/Hull Trains shared pool considering TPE are so short of capacity and Hull Trains have been know to borrow 185s on Sundays in the past?

 

[Chris B]

Not so crazy - the Henley direct train in crammed every night....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There will be NO shared pool - the DfT won't allow an open-access operator to share a franchise operators assets.

 

[northwichcat]

There will be NO shared pool - the DfT won't allow an open-access operator to share a franchise operators assets.

What would be the difference between FGW or TPE taking over Hull Trains and continuing to run open access services under the FGW or TPE name and having a shared pool?

It should be noted that the Crewe-Stone-Euston service is seen as open access because although LM have to provide a service for Stone and a Northampton-London service some parts of it aren't required under the franchise and on other parts they provide a more frequent service than required under the franchise.

 

[Chris B]

A la Wrexham & Shropshire & Chiltern you mean?.....

Same thing - you are unable to mix openp-access & franchise, and the DFT will want to see separated accounts, with cross-billing at every stage, aty commercial rates as if hiring in from elsewhere. Effectively a nightmare that the franchisee won't want to get into.

 

[thefab444]

Not so crazy - the Henley direct train in crammed every night....

Officially, a Class 180 seats one less standard class passenger than a Class 166, although it can fit in an extra ten first class passengers and probably some more standees as well. To me, extending the Henley direct service to 166 + 165 seems a better idea; I know it is 'posh', but it's hardly deserving of intercity quality rolling stock!

 

[TEW]

Those 2 havent been used by anyone, for anything for quite some time! I understand that one of them particularly is in a very poor condition.

180102 is regularly in service with Hull Trains. A carriage from one of them was inserted in to an Hull Trains 180 recently as well as the carriage originally in the formation was broken.