A Matter of Morals

[Grantham]

Interesting that descisions regarding morality are often about opinion. In this case, the opinions of the majority seem to be far outweighed by the opinions of the miniscule outraged minority...political correctness hard at work here! Frankly, I don't see how their uniform is "sexualised", in fact it's very pretty. Openly perverted sexuality might easily be considered immoral, pretty girls sitting on a steam engine seems like it should be lower down the scale, quite rather far less evil.

My local Minister tells me that a good sermon should be like a woman's skirt...long enough to cover the essentials and short enough to keep it interesting. Actually I've heard plenty of Ministers say it, they must learn it in bible college!

Mick

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Hi Mick,

Glad to see that Australia has decided to send their forum member to make a posting on this thread. You seem to have Ministers down-under with a keen sense of comparison.

 

[Grantham]

Yeah, I certainly know plenty of them.

My Dad is a Minister, my best mate is too. I'm just a dumb train driver!

I think it would be untrue to say that Christians don't appreciate the sight of a beautiful woman, not all of them are wowsers. (Do you use that term in the land of the long grey cloud?)

I know several female steam crew members including a qualified driver (who is also Christian) who have posed for photos in fairly similar attire, unfortunately I can't find one thereof at the mo...pity! None of them have legs quite like that, but they all seem to be well endowed in other areas!



You'll have to content yourself with this one. Amy on the left and Simone (the driver) on the right. The three day old she's holding is my fourth little one, Alexander, being introduced to the engine. I took him and the rest of the family for a run around for his first cabride. Simone and I started firing at the same time (way back when!), she's a good friend.

Mick

Edit: Looking at the pick again, it shows that she's up the duff. Hahaha!!!

 

[NLC1072]

I wonder if the girls in question know about this thread yet of whether anybody has informed them? I bet they'd just laugh!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

This particular thread looks to have the possibility to have a run that will rival "The Mousetrap" in London. Mind you, I will be worried if the number of postings starts to rival Stagecoach NW fleet changes that seems to have been running forever on the "Other Transport" forum...:roll:

 

[LE Greys]

Unbelieveable. Something that's meant to be fun causing such a controversy!

And all over sex appeal! The one thing that has kept the human race from extinction...

And is possibly pushing the Human race to extinction because of people breeding too fast causing overpopulation.

 

[WestCoast]

This particular thread looks to have the possibility to have a run that will rival "The Mousetrap" in London. Mind you, I will be worried if the number of postings starts to rival Stagecoach NW fleet changes that seems to have been running forever on the "Other Transport" forum...:roll:

It's an ongoing news thread that one about, err, Stagecoach NW buses.

 

[valenta]

It's an ongoing news thread that one about, err, Stagecoach NW buses.

But you would think it was a particular topic going from the title. Was this not what it was originally intended to be?

 

[mumrar]

This debate has certainly raised a lot of opinion for either side of the debate. There has even been the mention of freedom of speech of course. What hasn't been mentioned is people's right to freedom of expression. If a young lady, who spends a great deal of time preparing her physical appearance, including working out and eating sensibly, if she wants to show herself off within the boundaries of public decency then there should be no objection. I am pretty certain both of the young ladies pictured are acutely aware of their attractiveness, and I dare say they may even have used at one time or another to their advantage perhaps.

This is about their right to dress like that and their right to pose like that. The laws of public decency in this land are quite straightforward, and they fall easily within them. Do you suggest we go around clipping the feathers of particularly successful Peacocks in an attempt to stop them sexualising themselves in front of pea hens? Of course not. We are all different and unique in many ways, some of us academically brilliant, some of us drop dead gorgeous, some of us both and some of us neither. These differences are what make us all varied as a species, and it's our own intricacies that attract our potential sexual partners throughout our life.

It seems that the viewpoint on this photo has gone far too extreme in regards to their outfits, if I were to raise one serious point of concern about the image it would be the unsafe seated position of the one young lady, and the lack of PPE (Personal protective equipment) in a work environment that demands it at all times from the various safety bodies in charge.

 

[Madge Wildfire]

I think the difficulty with the Christian perspective, is that while quite understandable in principle it is completely constrained by a debateable translation of two century old writings.

Because committed Christians believe that everything in the Bible is the word of God and therefore not negotiable, they are impossible to put a balanced argument to.

Not only that, but they believe that those who dont follow their doctrine need to be 'taught' how to live their lives in a Christian manner, because that is part of the calling.

What they always fail to understand is how the agnostic or atheist, or even the dont knows dont cares, view their interference. If two people are in love then consentual sex is just an ultimate expression of their feelings for each other. Just because it may or may not have been approved of by God (in the form of marriage) should not make it any more or less an experience.

My daughter lives with her partner and has done for a while. They are not married and are not under any pressure to tie the knot, even if they eventually decide to have children. I find it mildly insulting to suggest that their relationship is somehow second rate because they have put sex before a ceremony in a church.

I dont believe that you can always discover the true character of your partner without sexual involvement, so using that excuse is just rather immature.

However, it is a great testament to the individuals contributing on this thread that it has not deteriorated into an abusive slanging match as happens on many groups or message boards.

 

[WestCoast]

But you would think it was a particular topic going from the title. Was this not what it was originally intended to be?

No idea to be honest. It does seem to have a little 'bus community' on there, it's an interesting part of the forum!

 

[AlterEgo]

And is possibly pushing the Human race to extinction because of people breeding too fast causing overpopulation.

You seriously think sexualisation of women causes world overpopulation??

Have a look at the world's fastest growing populations and tell me they sexualise women... :roll:

I'll give you a clue. Start in India and Africa.

 

[Butts]

You seriously think sexualisation of women causes world overpopulation??

Have a look at the world's fastest growing populations and tell me they sexualise women... :roll:

I'll give you a clue. Start in India and Africa.

Breeding......... my word !!!

 

[Grantham]

I think the difficulty with the Christian perspective, is that while quite understandable in principle it is completely constrained by a debateable translation of two century old writings.

Because committed Christians believe that everything in the Bible is the word of God and therefore not negotiable, they are impossible to put a balanced argument to.

Christians are like every other collection of people on the planet, all different! The people you have described here are fundamentalists. They don't speak for all of us, but they stand out more, under the "empty vessels make the most noise" theory! And I think you mean two milleniae old, and up to seven or eight.

Some people can see the questionalble translations and adjust accordingly, let alone the bits written in poetic style. An example of "poetic style" written in English would be "Once upon a time". Would you brutally enforce any message or lesson that starts thus? I didn't think so. Non fundie Christians accept that parts of the book were written like this!

99% of the bible isn't misinterpreted, the remaining 1% causes loads of grief caused by inflexible fundie retards. (Oops, did I say that out loud?)

Mick
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It seems that the viewpoint on this photo has gone far too extreme in regards to their outfits, if I were to raise one serious point of concern about the image it would be the unsafe seated position of the one young lady, and the lack of PPE (Personal protective equipment) in a work environment that demands it at all times from the various safety bodies in charge.

I think you'll find it's not illegal to sit in a locomotive window while standing at a station. PPE is for operating the equipment, not visiting it.

We don't need to be further wrapped up in cotton wool!

If you consider this to be dangerous and illegal, then try riding a motor bike forty miles though city traffic...perfectly legal so you can be *garuanteed* that nothing bad will *ever* happen...

Mick

 

[Schnellzug]

Christians are like every other collection of people on the planet, all different! The people you have described here are fundamentalists. They don't speak for all of us, but they stand out more, under the "empty vessels make the most noise" theory! And I think you mean two milleniae old, and up to seven or eight.

Some people can see the questionalble translations and adjust accordingly, let alone the bits written in poetic style. An example of "poetic style" written in English would be "Once upon a time". Would you brutally enforce any message or lesson that starts thus? I didn't think so. Non fundie Christians accept that parts of the book were written like this!

99% of the bible isn't misinterpreted, the remaining 1% causes loads of grief caused by inflexible fundie retards. (Oops, did I say that out loud?)

And (not that I want to get involved in an in-depth Biblical debate, again :roll, the bits that such people almost invariably tend to refer to in support of their prejudice - er, opinions :roll: either come from thousands of years before the time of Christ (so it really shouldn't take a genius to be able to work out that perhaps they were intended to be taken as referring to a particular context relevant to a particular time), or are the opinions of someone like Paul, who, while he puts a useful gloss on how Christ should be seen, really ought to have disclaimer at the beginning that "any opinions stated are the views of the author and should not necessarily be taken as representing the views of Jesus". Jesus very rarely seemed to say anything about questions of Sexual morality; I'm sure that if he did feel strongly about the matter he'd have said something.

 

[newbie babs]

I may just be a woman but where does wanting to looking nice have anything to do with religion or the church.

The ladies in question dressed to please themselves and yes probably the cameras, so do most people when there out in public. If people want to take photos then why not. Morals are what each person have and morally if you think its wrong then don`t look.
Same if you like it then take a picture.

But please explain where looking nice is the same as blatantly advertising sex . I think they look nice and, not morally degrading woman.
But that's my view as a woman.

 

[90019]

99% of the bible isn't misinterpreted, the remaining 1% causes loads of grief caused by inflexible fundie retards. (Oops, did I say that out loud?)

http://www.fstdt.com/Top100.aspx?Archive=1

 

[Barrett M95]

Well said newbie babs. I see that the couple of members that were seemingly offended by the image have gone quiet.

Two grown women choose to take part in this event and agree to wearing those clothes (which were conservative by modern standards) and appear happy to be photographed. Good on them. If people are offended by the concept of this they must surely lead very sheltered lives or be very sensitive to something slightly out of phase with their lifestyle. Just don't vote for the photo or don't look at it. Ironically your ranting about it has drawn far more attention (probably including the kind you were worried about) that would have been the case if you had just stuck to your own personal morals and ignored it.

I'm disappointed the photographer removed the image from he competition although I understand the stance you are taking by doing so.

Finally I have experience of working with a student placement who had such high morals that they felt should apply to all that she got involved with several cases where disciplinary action was taken against fellow workers for trivial matters to everyone (even HR) except her. Not personal attacks physical or verbal - just because she disagreed with something someone said or a screen backround on a colleagues monitor that was not offensive to anyone else including other women present This happened so often that when her placement ended she was left to leave without any reference. The fact is she was too high maintenance in a work environment in the real world.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

But please explain where looking nice is the same as blatantly advertising sex . I think they look nice and, not morally degrading woman.
But that's my view as a woman.

I am glad you are here to give your side of the debate from a woman's point of view. Well said.

 

[richw]

i went out friday night, and i'd say 75% of girls out were wearing outfits that barely covered their backside, this image shows these girls are wearing a Lot more in their outfits

 

[Oswyntail]

... I think they look nice and, not morally degrading woman.
But that's my view as a woman.

Actually, I thought the "Fnah fnah snigger" responses were morally degrading to men.
Lots of good sense here - glad to see some non-fundie Christians getting their word in!

 

[Minilad]

http://www.fstdt.com/Top100.aspx?Archive=1

Wow. That website is amazing. There really are some incredibly dumb people around

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Wow. That website is amazing. There really are some incredibly dumb people around

There really are. My favourite is this one:

Quote# 65191

im christian
if we came from apes
how come were not hairy and have a big mouth
and did we end up looking like we do know
and besides
there isnt any serious proof of apes
they showd a video saying an ape was wondering around in the forest
that thing looked exactly like a costume that i had saw at a store
know one ever cought an ape

 

[Minilad]

I did notice that one. And the one about breaking the kids in before they reach 1.
Do you reckon the OP came form this sort of background !!

 

[richw]

Ralph, based on your quote, unless i'm mistaken, I and many other men do indeed have a lot of body hair!

if we came from apes
how come were not hairy and have a big mouth

and as for the big mouth clearly havent seen some of the people i come into contact with in every day life.

Unfortunately some comments by some Christians make it look like they have been wrapped up in cotton wool and not seen the real world. I believe this to be the minority, as i know many Christians who do have a realistic view

 

[LE Greys]

You seriously think sexualisation of women causes world overpopulation??

Have a look at the world's fastest growing populations and tell me they sexualise women... :roll:

I'll give you a clue. Start in India and Africa.

That wasn't exactly the point I was making. I believe the post I was commenting on was talking about sexual instinct, or the instinct to breed as I would put it (remember I have a zoology degree). We are all fully aware that overpopulation is a big problem, and surely the birth of children is caused by people breeding, so indirectly by this instinct.

As for your point, better education and increased access to contraception might also make some difference.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Ralph, based on your quote, unless i'm mistaken, I and many other men do indeed have a lot of body hair!


and as for the big mouth clearly havent seen some of the people i come into contact with in every day life.

Unfortunately some comments by some Christians make it look like they have been wrapped up in cotton wool and not seen the real world. I believe this to be the minority, as i know many Christians who do have a realistic view

Put a Right Whale and a Blue Whale side-by-side (you'd need a big crane). There is clearly a lot of difference between the two, yet nobody would dispute that they are related species. Do the same for a Squirrel Monkey and a Howler Monkey, you see the same thing. Humans and other African apes actually have fewer differences than other closely-related species. If you look at genetics, you will see that 98% of Human DNA is similar to Chimpanzee DNA (however, 50% is similar to Banana DNA). Haemoglobin is also similar between the species.

 

[Minilad]

Humans and other African apes actually have fewer differences than other closely-related species. If you look at genetics, you will see that 98% of Human DNA is similar to Chimpanzee DNA (however, 50% is similar to Banana DNA). Haemoglobin is also similar between the species.

So that is actually true then. I always imagined that to be an urban myth

 

[LE Greys]

I may just be a woman but where does wanting to looking nice have anything to do with religion or the church.

The ladies in question dressed to please themselves and yes probably the cameras, so do most people when there out in public. If people want to take photos then why not. Morals are what each person have and morally if you think its wrong then don't look.
Same if you like it then take a picture.

But please explain where looking nice is the same as blatantly advertising sex . I think they look nice and, not morally degrading woman.
But that's my view as a woman.

Back to the subject, I happen to agree with you on this. There's no law against it, people have freedom of choice and if that's what they want to do, then they can do it. It doesn't really hurt anyone, so I'm not going to stop them. The thing I don't agree with is when it is blatantly using sex appeal in advertising to attract male customers, especially when it's not relevant to the product. That's cynical and insulting to both sexes. Still, I haven't seen the image, so I can't really make that judgement. On the benefit of the doubt, I don't see anything wrong with it as a general principal.

Incidentally, I would like to see the image so that I can make my mind up.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So that is actually true then. I always imagined that to be an urban myth

Well, DNA is actually only made up of four nucleotides, Guanine and Cytosine (which always pair together on opposite sides of the helix); and Adenine and Thymine (same thing). There just happen to be loads and loads of them in one molecule. It's the same in every species on Earth right down to bacteria. If you imagine a language with only four letters, A C G and T, then don't be surprised if you find similarities.

 

[Grantham]

which said picture looked like this:

Looked like this. Pretty girls like Great Western locos!

Mick

 

[Rugd1022]

I'm mortally offended that only one of those young ladies is wearing kinky boots... it's an outrage