A Matter of Morals

[blackettstreet]

This started in the voting for Photo of the Week 535, where I questioned the use of photo: http://www.railforums.co.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=227&pid=2439#top_display_media and unitentionally started a mini moral debate. Obviously, said poll was not the ideal place, so it can continue.

All I have to say, is I am disgusted - not even at its use to try and win the competition, but at its simple existence. I feel it is completely immoral.

I do not intend to make this a heated argument, and a civilised discussion would be nice; but seeing as this is hardly the least controversial thread ever, I will accept responsibility if it gets stupid.

 

[Bittern]

I want to state that it's not about the photograph in question itself - it's about what's in the photograph. I was going to say photographs and videos like it are degrading to women, but I feel the word you used -"immoral"- far better captures the spirit of it.

I'm an equalitist and I have no place for "sex appeal".

 

[theblackwatch]

Why's it immoral? These are two of the stewardesses off the railtour, and if you ever see or travel on an RTC special you will find several (female only!) members of staff on board dressed in a similar manner.

 

[Bittern]

And that makes it better? Actually, that makes it worse. Do you see men dressed like this?

I'm betting that if this was a photo of two guys, all hell would be unleashed on here.

 

[sprinterguy]

I am generally in agreement with the comments that willig made on the photo competition thread. In a strange coincidence I made a post just a couple of days prior to the start of the current photo competition in one of the other threads expressing that sometimes I can be quite disappointed, and occasionally even bemused, by the voting choices that are occasionally made when it seems that the quality of the various photos is not being taken into account. I saw the entry of the two West Coast Railway girls and immediately thought that this was going to be "another one of those".

I'm not fussed about the photo itself; the photo competition is meant to be a bit of fun and as such tongue-in-cheek entries such as that are perfectly acceptable and can provide a bit of light-hearted humour, but more the predictable responses where all thought of photographic and artistic merit goes out of the window when an attractive pair of legs appears on the scene.

 

[blackettstreet]

Why's it immoral? These are two of the stewardesses off the railtour, and if you ever see or travel on an RTC special you will find several (female only!) members of staff on board dressed in a similar manner.

If you look at the comments made in the voting, that would suggest many think it holds sexual appeal. And why would anyone dress like that then pose for a photo if they weren't trying to give an impression?

Perhaps I chose "immoral" because I have a Christian view of this, others may have less strong feelings.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm betting that if this was a photo of two guys, all hell would be unleashed on here.

Well exactly.

 

[sprinterguy]

Do you see men dressed like this?

In a tartan skirt? Why yes, on occasion, though in my case, being of a male persuasion, they call it a kilt In fact, there should be a couple of people who were on Wrexham & Shropshires' last train who do have photos of me as such.

Though that's beside the point, and irrelevant to the argument, just thought I'd inject a little humour.

 

[Jordy]

Immoral if people are voting because of "sexual appeal"? Yes, probably. Immoral for taking/entering the photo? No, absolutely not - they are clearly posing for the photo! If anything, the immorality lies with the voters, not the entrant.

 

[Bittern]

Be that as it may there's still a lot of immorality surrounding it. Why do WCRC feel the need to dress up young women in sexualized outfits? It's screaming sexism.

 

[Butts]

I don't find the images at all offensive.

If similar pictures of men were displayed I would not be offended but nor would I wish to view them.

Check out The Motor Show on any of the Italian and some of the French Stands and the girls they use make the tartan lassies look positively Victorian by comparison.

 

[thefab444]

Absolutely nothing wrong with it providing they weren't forced to have the photo taken (which I doubt they were).

 

[blackettstreet]

Absolutely nothing wrong with it providing they weren't forced to have the photo taken (which I doubt they were).

Although I am sure they consented, I have no idea why they want to be in such a photo. Is that how they want to pictured?

 

[Butts]

Immoral if people are voting because of "sexual appeal"? Yes, probably. Immoral for taking/entering the photo? No, absolutely not - they are clearly posing for the photo! If anything, the immorality lies with the voters, not the entrant.

You could almost say "the immorality is in the eye of the beholder"

 

[Bittern]

Check out The Motor Show on any of the Italian and some of the French Stands and the girls they use make the tartan lassies look positively Victorian by comparison.

Again, doesn't make it any better. That's far worse.

 

[blackettstreet]

Again, doesn't make it any better. That's far worse.

Absolutely. This is bad, that is even worse - I hardly see it as, "that's worse, so we can justify this."

 

[thefab444]

Who are you to decide what is moral or not? If a photograph causes you to get a bit "hot under the collar" then it is immediately deemed immoral, presumably you are married?

 

[Butts]

Again, doesn't make it any better. That's far worse.

You may perceive it to be worse however others disagree.

It's a bit like you can never find anyone who admits to viewing pornography online - yet 30 or 40 percent of searches relate to it.

Obviously all the people are viewing in order that they may condemn it

 

[theblackwatch]

Absolutely. This is bad, that is even worse - I hardly see it as, "that's worse, so we can justify this."

But at the end of the day, they have no need to justify it. In the same way a trainspotter has no need to justify his parka and NHS glasses to anyone!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Who are you to decide what is moral or not? If a photograph causes you to get a bit "hot under the collar" then it is immediately deemed immoral, presumably you are married?

Who are you to decide if there's "absolutely nothing wrong with it"? That argument works both ways

 

[Butts]

But at the end of the day, they have no need to justify it. In the same way a trainspotter has no need to justify his parka and NHS glasses to anyone!

You forgot the notebook pencil and tupperwear sandwich box and flask

 

[blackettstreet]

Who are you to decide what is moral or not? If a photograph causes you to get a bit "hot under the collar" then it is immediately deemed immoral, presumably you are married?

I'll assume that's addressed to Bittern....

 

[richw]

dont see an issue with it as long as they werent forced to wear those garments. I'm pretty certain they would of chose such as a outfit. I went to a motoring event at silverstone recently, and i'd say 75% of the girls there were dressed in a similar manner. It is clearly a fashionable way to dress to girls of today.
If they were topless etc then maybe yes i'd agree it was morally wrong.

 

[strange6]

I believe in freedom of speech but this must be one of the most pointless and inconsequential threads ever.

 

[Butts]

I believe in freedom of speech but this must be one of the most pointless and inconsequential threads ever.

And although I would not agree with that I defend your right to express that view

 

[IanPooleTrains]

I believe in freedom of speech but this must be one of the most pointless and inconsequential threads ever.

+1 and then some strange

If there are people whinging and moaning about the fact that someone chose to put this picture into the competition, surely their rant about it being "immoral" is a case that they are trying to influcence voters to not vote for it?

Therefore, they are trying to influence people to pick another picture!

If people want to vote for that picture, who the hell are you to say what they can and cannot vote for? That would be like you going up to someone in an election and saying, well, we would vote for you but you look a bit of a goof so we are gonna vote for someone else!

 

[Crossover]

I don't think it is immoral at all and it fits the bill of the competition, and that is of railwaymen/railwaywomen...stewards or otherwise they are people working on the railway. Provided they chose to sit on the loco (which I'm guessing probably isn't that uncommon for railtours?) then it is going to attract some attention

I probably won't be voting for it in the competition though as technically, it isn't such a great picture in my opinion (sorry to the person whose pic it is btw)

 

[blackettstreet]

+1 and then some strange

If there are people whinging and moaning about the fact that someone chose to put this picture into the competition, surely their rant about it being "immoral" is a case that they are trying to influcence voters to not vote for it?

Therefore, they are trying to influence people to pick another picture!

If people want to vote for that picture, who the hell are you to say what they can and cannot vote for? That would be like you going up to someone in an election and saying, well, we would vote for you but you look a bit of a goof so we are gonna vote for someone else!

I don't care about the competition anymore. It's just, well, a competition.

 

[Butts]

I don't think it is immoral at all and it fits the bill of the competition, and that is of railwaymen/railwaywomen...stewards or otherwise they are people working on the railway. Provided they chose to sit on the loco (which I'm guessing probably isn't that uncommon for railtours?) then it is going to attract some attention

I probably won't be voting for it in the competition though as technically, it isn't such a great picture in my opinion (sorry to the person whose pic it is btw)

Have they ever had a "Calendar Girls" type Calendar on any TOC - that would result in apoplexy for some contributors

 

[ainsworth74]

Nowt wrong with that photo as far as I can see as long as the subjects of the picture weren't forced to wear those clothes. Similarly I would have no issue if WCRC's male employees were to dress in such a fashion to be honest this seems like a storm in tea cup. As long as the women in the photo are happy who are we to judge? If they don't feel outraged at being dressed in that manner or feel that they are being discriminated against on the basis of their sex why on earth do we have to be outraged on their behalf?

 

[blackettstreet]

..... presumably you are married?

Well in case that was addressed to me, let me clear up any misconceptions. I'm 13.