365517,New Livery.

[Fincra5]

What a boring livery...

 

[bramling]

You can get more seats in the same space with Airline style layout (particularly with angled seat backs), think of the dead space between the seat backs with an adjacent table layout which is used for a few bins or luggage. If you eliminate about 3 dead spaces you have enough room for another row of seats.

It's hard to tell from that photo whether they have increased the number of seats or not. The legroom on the 365 is already quite tight, although average and acceptable for a commuter train (albeit one where journeys can reach almost 2 hours). I would be very surprised if they have managed to squeeze an extra row of seats in, and if they have I'd be very surprised if they have managed to do it without reducing legroom to unbearable levels.

Can anyone who has been on the train confirm whether the seating capacity has been increased?

Fortunately it looks like the area at the inner end of the DMC car has been left alone.

 

[A-driver]

Can anyone who has been on the train confirm whether the seating capacity has been increased?



.

Can't say I counted the seats when I had a look, I havnt ever counted the seats on an existing 365 either.

 

[Goldfish62]

Willing to be corrected, but I don't think the livery is FirstGroup's - I believe it's set by the DfT.

Looks like commonsense has prevailed regarding liveries, ie keep the same livery irrespective of franchisee. Pity this one is so dull - and will get dirty very quickly.

Now we'll have to see if DfT prescribes the East Coast livery for whoever wins it.:roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Personally I doubt this affects many, if any, people with sight issues, it's been included in these regulations to make it seem as if they're doing something to help people with disabilities.

If someone is blind enough to not see where the doors are, I think it's a risk them being on any station at all.

I'm sure (hope) you didn't mean to sound like you'd ban all partially sighted and blind people from travelling by train.

The regulations have been around for well over a decade now. I'm surprised they're still being debated.

 

[Manchester77]

A partially sighted / blind person would most likely be travelling with their seeing eye dog / partner and so are perfectly safe, much safer than some people who choose to use the railways who don't have any sight issues and still choose to 'misbehave' so to speak on the railway

 

[Peter Mugridge]

My wife is partly sighted but can travel on her own; however the contrasting door colours don't make any difference to her- if anything she has asked me why they try to hide the doors like that...

 

[southern442]

The front ends on these really do have stupid grins. Gets worse the more I look. What were they thinking? Cheer up those unhappy commuters...

Considering the negative feedback from users, the grins will come in handy now!

 

[Tom C]

The front looks plain ugly and the interior just looks bland.

As for Kings Lynn passengers, 317348 made an appearance on the Fenline last Friday. Perhaps they would prefer a few more now!

 

[Skimble19]

You can get more seats in the same space with Airline style layout (particularly with angled seat backs), think of the dead space between the seat backs with an adjacent table layout which is used for a few bins or luggage. If you eliminate about 3 dead spaces you have enough room for another row of seats.

A valid point, however, with the 365s all seats always line up with the windows, and judging by that picture they still do.. So I can't see how they could possibly have added anymore seats?

Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong though!

 

[jon0844]

It's hard to tell from that photo whether they have increased the number of seats or not. The legroom on the 365 is already quite tight, although average and acceptable for a commuter train (albeit one where journeys can reach almost 2 hours). I would be very surprised if they have managed to squeeze an extra row of seats in, and if they have I'd be very surprised if they have managed to do it without reducing legroom to unbearable levels.

I can't see how they could add in another row of seats, without having to adjust every single row - and I didn't think that was part of the job (that would be quite a big job surely?).

You have mostly airline seats as it is, and if they turned around one row then surely there would be no extra room for another row as the now reversed seat (to become another airline seat row) would be moved along a bit. Same number of seats, but simply no table and opportunity for people to put feet up (which is no bad thing as when I walk through late night trains, I'd say at least 25% of people will have their feet up where they are able to - and that's pretty bad).

A valid point, however, with the 365s all seats always line up with the windows, and judging by that picture they still do.. So I can't see how they could possibly have added anymore seats?

Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong though!

I can only imagine they've simply removed some of the facing seats and the table, but still have exactly the same number of seats. I am not sure exactly why that would be done as it serves no real purpose unless they've all shifted up a bit to squeeze in one additional row per carriage (and for what, 4 extra seats per coach - so 16 more seats per set?).

Or else it's just the way the photo is and is hiding more table seats. Despite having been on a 365 goodness knows how many times (last time just Saturday gone), I can't quite picture how many tables there are in any given carriage or even if there's the same number in each one. Given the view ahead shows the accessible toilet, it's a photo taken from the country end.

 

[465fan]

The carpet is there, it's just underneath the protective plastic.

There is no net loss or increase in seating - just the seating layout has been altered. I often find I prefer the non-table seats as it is better with not playing a battle with my knees with another passenger!

As for the paintjob... It wouldn't be so bad if the front wasn't so horrible! They definitely need to sort out the way the yellow blends with the white... Does not look right whatsoever...

Has it got a release date?

 

[jon0844]

There is no net loss or increase in seating - just the seating layout has been altered. I often find I prefer the non-table seats as it is better with not playing a battle with my knees with another passenger!

As you posted the exact same time as me, I'd go along with that and perhaps that's why the seating has been adjusted.. presumably by simply swapping one or two seats around to make more airline rows.

Seems rather pointless to me (in terms of cost vs benefits) but I do prefer the airline seats. I rarely sit by a table because of the limited room, but if I'm in a group then obviously these become more appealing - so at least they haven't all gone.

Problem is, unless you board at the origin station in plenty of time, those seats may well be taken.

 

[Manchester77]

They can't have added any additional seats though since judging by the images they're the same seats?

 

[asylumxl]

God it looks awful.

 

[jon0844]

What will be interesting is how the passengers view the change. I wonder how many will even go as far as thinking they're new trains - or how many will somehow think of the service differently without the First logos and colours everywhere. It's all about perception at the end of the day, even with some commuters that travel every day but still haven't got a clue about the way the railway operates.

Bland as the interior and exterior might be, if this becomes a new DfT requirement for all trains (as a base with limited personalisation) as and when franchises come up for renewal, then it starts to become a little more like a return to BR with standardised colour schemes - and I actually think this is a good thing, even if I am not blown away by the choice of colours used.

The next question is; as this is effectively a neutral 'base' - how much will a new franchise winner be able to customise them? Will it just be a stick on vinyl in the middle of each coach (exterior) and limited positions inside? Presumably no more seats with logos engraved in the backs etc?

 

[455driver]

Its a regional EMU not the Orient Express, its there to shift lots of people in reasonable comfort.

Should point out reducing the number of tables has no effect at all on the amount of seats unless leg room has been reduced, and it doesn't look like it has been... Unless I'm missing something?

Wrong, look at FGWs HSTs the low density ones have more tables and less seats at the same pitch as the higher density ones with less tables and more airline seats.

 

[shedman]

Is anyone else seeing similarities to a 332 (albiet dated) when looking at the front?

 

[TEW]

Its a regional EMU not the Orient Express, its there to shift lots of people in reasonable comfort.

Wrong, look at FGWs HSTs the low density ones have more tables and less seats at the same pitch as the higher density ones with less tables and more airline seats.

Legroom on some seats is less on high density sets than low density sets. On low density sets seats on either side of the aisles align. On high density sets they don't, the first two pairs of seats on the right hand side have less legroom on high density than than low density sets.

 

[Eagle]

Wrong, look at FGWs HSTs the low density ones have more tables and less seats at the same pitch as the higher density ones with less tables and more airline seats.

Same goes for 221s; XC's are higher density than Virgin's since they removed some tables (although most of the additional capacity was made by demolishing the shop).

 

[Pumbaa]

I like it. I prefer airline seating to tables (more intimacy) and the front end reminds me of the 332/333s.

 

[455driver]

Legroom on some seats is less on high density sets than low density sets. On low density sets seats on either side of the aisles align. On high density sets they don't, the first two pairs of seats on the right hand side have less legroom on high density than than low density sets.

The first 1 or 2 rows are priority seats and have more legroom anyway.

On HD sets carriage A has 2 less priority seats (11 and 12) which would alter the pitch of all the other seats on that side.
I havent noticed any difference on the others, probably because I havent looked.

 

[Katada]

I'm sure (hope) you didn't mean to sound like you'd ban all partially sighted and blind people from travelling by train.

The regulations have been around for well over a decade now. I'm surprised they're still being debated.

It couldn't be done unless the entire country is completely changed.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Rather a lot of focus on the front ends is rather confusing to a Northerner like me- surely the 365s have looked like that for well over a decade- the 'grin' being vents for the cab air-con unit.

Besides making it easier for partially sighted passengers to find the doors, am I right in thinking another reason for the colour contrast is to aid rescuers in gaining access in the event of an accident? If I was unfortunate enough to be on board a train which derailed, I'd certainly want the emergency services to be able to find their way in to help me out as quickly as possible!

 

[Crossforth]

Rather a lot of focus on the front ends is rather confusing to a Northerner like me- surely the 365s have looked like that for well over a decade- the 'grin' being vents for the cab air-con unit.

Besides making it easier for partially sighted passengers to find the doors, am I right in thinking another reason for the colour contrast is to aid rescuers in gaining access in the event of an accident? If I was unfortunate enough to be on board a train which derailed, I'd certainly want the emergency services to be able to find their way in to help me out as quickly as possible!

I also like the different coloured doors so that as the train pulls into a station you can make a rough guess where to stand.

 

[Tommy91125]

Looks quite good, reminds me of NXEC ic125s

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Rather a lot of focus on the front ends is rather confusing to a Northerner like me- surely the 365s have looked like that for well over a decade- the 'grin' being vents for the cab air-con unit....

Compare this to the front end paint job on the NSE and FCC liveries and you see that although the cab front window frames are black, around them there is a band of yellow and the panels directly beneath the window were black (with the unit number in white centrally below the windows), the curved bottom edge of the black section seemed to work with the curved line of the lights. Both of these elements have changed (although the unit number does appear to be in the same place albeit in black) giving a more 332/333 look about it, and whilst the basic, but hideous, lines of the 332/333 seem to allow such a basic livery design, I don't think the 'more cluttered' design of the 365 really suits it.

The 365 has never been pretty, but that looks, to me at least, to be a "once I've done this I can go home" livery element (actually most of it looks like a "once I've done this I can go home" job).

 

[jon0844]

More like the person went home before finishing, and someone took the plans as finished...

 

[WestCountry]

Rather a lot of focus on the front ends is rather confusing to a Northerner like me- surely the 365s have looked like that for well over a decade- the 'grin' being vents for the cab air-con unit.

The curved top of the yellow warning panel on the previous liveries matched the curve of the 'grin' and lights - the new horizontal split totally ignores the shape of the front end and makes it look awful.

(I quite like the look of the ends under the old livery.)

 

[MCR247]

I don't even see why they would make the bit around the cab black (the part that was yellow before)? It's not like there is black anywhere else

 

[TEW]

The first 1 or 2 rows are priority seats and have more legroom anyway.

On HD sets carriage A has 2 less priority seats (11 and 12) which would alter the pitch of all the other seats on that side.
I havent noticed any difference on the others, probably because I havent looked.

Indeed, but on HD sets they don't really have any more legroom, it's pretty similar to the rest of the seats. They are still labelled as priority seats though. I don't know if the pitch is identical on all the other seats because it's hard to tell, but it is definitely different on those first two pairs of seats. It's the combination of the removal of one table and the reduction in the legroom which allows the extra seats.