321448 demonstrator

[jopsuk]

Have you submitted tthat feedback to Greater Anglia? They've got an online survey

 

[nxea321446]

just had a ride on 321448 from colchester to liverpool street and i must say i am impressed with what wabtec have done to it the seats are very comfortable and theyve also fitted a ceiling like what you would find on an electrostar which is quite cool

 

[jon0844]

From the photos, the leg room doesn't look great in standard (although the 'victim' does seem to have particularly long legs!).

I suppose the key is to sitting very upright, which might not suit everyone, but is a pretty good posture.

I'm not surprised people think this is a brand new train. I also think this confirms that, as long as the mechanics can hold out for another 10+ years, there's absolutely no way that this fleet won't be upgraded and find a happy customer somewhere else in due course. Ditto for the 317s and 319s.

I can't see how this trial can fail, bar a few trivial things.

 

[stut]

I suppose the key is to sitting very upright, which might not suit everyone, but is a pretty good posture.

Problem is, the 321 seats have very angled backrests - and the demonstrator doesn't seem to have changed this.

 

[nxea321446]

the demonstrator is currently showing on itv news anglia

 

[Julian G]

321448 is on country end of 1702 LST-NRW & 1930 NRW-LST

 

[southern442]

321448 is on country end of 1702 LST-NRW & 1930 NRW-LST

can I ask everyone- tables or armrests? That is the situation in first at the moment.

Hopefully First wont be busy enough for people to sit in the appalling airline seats in the demonstrator.

Also looking at those pictures, there looks like there is 0 legroom in the metro layout.

 

[306024]

On this particular unit there are some 50 less seats available in standard because of all the other changes. 82 standard seats have been squeezed into one coach, so leg room for the tall is not great.

In first there are power points for laptops, but the table is not wide enough to put two laptops opposite each other. On 448 the window in first is large, but in most of the earlier 321/3s it is smaller. Unless it is made the same size you'll get a good view of a plastic panel.

The colour scheme is 'interesting'. The 321/4s that were refurbished at Clacton look much better to me. The mix and match colours will need maintaining after coffee spills (or worse).

However overall it does look quite smart if you put your shades on. The air-con will be a boon in summer, no more noisy open windows. Whether it is the right configuration for the whole GE fleet I doubt, because of the huge reduction in seating capacity.

Generally it can work any diagram, so could turn up anywhere. As has been said, use the feedback link on the GA website for all comments, good and bad.

 

[klewer]

In the outer suburban layout (2+3) have they installed new seats or are they just the Ashbournes that have been tarted up?

 

[nxea321446]

in the suburban interior they have retained the original seat frames but have put new backs on

 

[klewer]

in the suburban interior they have retained the original seat frames but have put new backs on

A real shame. The Ashbourne seats are horrid, you sit so low in them!

 

[samuelmorris]

The seat height is a relatively minor complaint for me, the biggest thing that annoys me about 321s is the doors. It doesn't look like they've done anything to them physically - can anyone confirm if they still suffer the issue when another train passes at high speed? That would ruin the otherwise pretty quiet ambience they'd have with sealed windows.

 

[nxea321446]

yes that still happens when another train passes

 

[Alfie1014]

I travelled on the set on Thurs evening and there is no noticeable change to the doors, still the same BR MKIII EMU rattle when passing other trains at high speed. That said the overall impression was favourable though I was only travelling down country and it was quite lightly loaded by this point, so no opportunity for knocking knees with other passengers. I thought the new seats in the metro section were more comfortable than the existing retrimmed ones, which I too find too low for long distance journeys and whilst not a fan on leather seats those in first seemed OK, though the air-con in the first class saloon was defective and it was a sauna in that part of the train. Overall a great improvement on what in the main is now a rather tatty fleet. Roll on rapid squadron refurbishment (some hope!)

 

[Bringback309s]

I am yet to try the demonstrator out, but despite all they hype about heavy refurbishments being the way ahead in cash-strapped times, is it really more of an improvement to passengers than when the first "Essex Express" or 4-CEP refurbs came out in the early eighties? They really did seem to completely modernise the rolling stock of the day and I wonder if this is the 21st century version of the Essex Express and not a lot more (certainly no buffet trolley and comfortable seats!)... I look forward to travelling on it and finding out!

 

[samuelmorris]

I think that's very disappointing about the doors not having been modified. I'm sure there's something they could have done without making too many modifications, given the whole energy efficiency drive, the amount of air that comes through the not-insignificant gaps in them must now presumably compromise the air conditioning performance, even if only slightly. I can only hope they do something about it prior to the rest of the fleet being modified, and the same goes for the 317 and prospective 319 refurbishments.

 

[zn1]

the demonstrator would be best served going around all tocs for a year for a month or so at a time so the whole picture of the 321 service fleet can be gauged with it...if all the punters who use the lm 321s the northern 321/9 and even 320 fleet agree, it should be a complete fleet outfitting and made the c1 standard for all 320--322's...the traction package really shouldnt be an issue, once tested on one it should be a simple refit on all the fleet,

 

[samuelmorris]

Do porterbrook own the entire 321 fleet, or just the GA units?

 

[nxea321446]

porterbrook do not own any 321s all 117 of them are owned by eversholt

 

[Wivenswold]

I am yet to try the demonstrator out, but despite all they hype about heavy refurbishments being the way ahead in cash-strapped times, is it really more of an improvement to passengers than when the first "Essex Express" or 4-CEP refurbs came out in the early eighties? They really did seem to completely modernise the rolling stock of the day and I wonder if this is the 21st century version of the Essex Express and not a lot more (certainly no buffet trolley and comfortable seats!)... I look forward to travelling on it and finding out!

It's probably on a par with the 309 refurb. If you substitute the buffet trolley and big seats for air conditioning and wheelchair accessibility. Of course, that costly 309 programme didn't end up extending their life on the Great Eastern by much and my main concern is that will be the case with the 321's which will be 30 years old by the time the last unit has been to Doncaster for the treatment.

My hope is that when the inevitable happens and the local-hauled services to Norwich cease that the DfT will invest in new long-distance stock that can also provide express services from Ipswich and Clacton. Maybe we'll get our griddle cars back and 2+2 seating. The 321's can then be shared with WA and GN for shorter journeys and replace the last of the 317s.

 

[samuelmorris]

porterbrook do not own any 321s all 117 of them are owned by eversholt

D'oh, sorry, wrong ROSCO. I thought it seemed odd when I wrote it, but didn't think to check. Yeah, that. Well, answers my question anyway, if they're all owned by the same company it's conceivable, but depends on how they fit in with the roles they're used on with the other TOCs. It might seem prudent to wait until they've decided what they're doing with the FCC units post-Class 700 before doing those.

 

[hwl]

My hope is that when the inevitable happens and the local-hauled services to Norwich cease that the DfT will invest in new long-distance stock that can also provide express services from Ipswich and Clacton. Maybe we'll get our griddle cars back and 2+2 seating. The 321's can then be shared with WA and GN for shorter journeys and replace the last of the 317s.

With the introduction of the 700s the GN 317s and 321s are liable to go anyway - see the ITT document on cascades.

 

[zn1]

the 317-323 fleet were built for a 40 year life cycle, the code 1 half life rebuild can be supplemented by the code 3 repair life extentions, where essential repairs are carried out as specified by the chieif engineering staff of the rosco's and tocs, these repairs would be specifed in the old days by the DMEE's CRCC's in derby and croydon, who programmed all heavy overhauls and maintenance..

the 309 overhaul and their early withdrawl may now seem like badly spent money, at the time of 309 rebuild they would have been expected to last another 20 years, with withdrawl from service around year 2000 or at about the same time as the class 411 CEP, the 310 life mid life overhaul during 1986-87 extended their life to the time of their removal from service,

 

[JonathanH]

the 317-323 fleet were built for a 40 year life cycle, the code 1 half life rebuild can be supplemented by the code 3 repair life extentions, where essential repairs are carried out as specified by the chieif engineering staff of the rosco's and tocs, these repairs would be specifed in the old days by the DMEE's CRCC's in derby and croydon, who programmed all heavy overhauls and maintenance..

the 309 overhaul and their early withdrawl may now seem like badly spent money, at the time of 309 rebuild they would have been expected to last another 20 years, with withdrawl from service around year 2000 or at about the same time as the class 411 CEP, the 310 life mid life overhaul during 1986-87 extended their life to the time of their removal from service,

309 withdrawal from the Great Eastern was an example of spreading the other stock (321s) more thinly and eliminating a small fleet. Didn't they close Clacton depot at the same time? Same in a way as what happened with the 442s. In the same way, they closed (or changed the role of) Bournemouth Depot.

 

[samuelmorris]

Thing is, with the withdrawal of the 309s, there was radically different rolling stock about, I mean the 309s and 312s were slam door stock, for example. Post-refurbishment, I don't see a great deal of difference technically between 321s and what you could buy new to replace them. Until the next leap forward in rolling stock technology I don't see them going anywhere until they are well and truly life-expired.

Interesting that you include the 323s in that list, but not 365s etc?

 

[zn1]

i forgot about the closure of CC, you are absolutley right, they did close it at the time 309s were withdrawn from the great eastern jobs...some did of course work in manchester area, some even got down to euston on some jobs in the early toc days.

321 has been a success story, they are a large fleet with not many issues, none have been scrapped yet...

365 is technically the ac version of networker isnt it??

 

[Manchester77]

A 365 is a networker, it's a 465 with a panto basically ordered by NSE for the GN routes when they couldn't get their other wished for networkers (universal networkers etc). In the early post BR years Connex SouthEastern had a few 365s before they got the electrostars.

 

[samuelmorris]

Yeah my point was, how are 365s any less different to BR Mk3 based stock than 323s?

 

[NLC1072]

Im on the demonstrator now and we've just had an emergency stop just outside of stratford country bound, due to reasons of "safety issues with the train" anybody know what happened?

 

[oliMw]

Driver fault maybe? SPAD for example. It's only a guess though. It could well be anything really