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I noticed today that Wikipedia has a page for the "Class 397" CAF EMUs - not seen this used anywhere else - cites an article dated 16 Jul by Phillip Haigh

Although the northern franchise specifically prevented the use of the 185s it's not beyond the wit of man to revise the franchise situation so that they remain at the Manchester depot and the previously agreed units 168/170 whatever end up with a fleet that already has them and can make better...

Deffo Meadowhall

Wide body... Hmm... Could upset some passengers --- old post above --- --- new post below --- Seriously though, a short wide body could end up with 2+3 seating in standard class...

Cheers, when is that due ? Plus, when is the update scheduled to be complete on the 158s - will passengers notice anything significant like new seat covers etc ? Also, if you have any input, please let's have seat number ranges visible on the outside of the carriages ;-) --- old post above...

Any of the central London river crossings are amazing for someone that is a stranger to London... Especially Thameslink popping up from a tunnel into the station.

Absolutely, whilst history has provided a Norwich-Liverpool service, things change. Agreed, it will be interesting to see what the proposed Stadler and CAF regional units are like and if these would work on the Norwich-Nottingham service to provide similar performance to the current 158 units...

Yes, I'm aware of that, but given the reliability issues that are starting to creep into the 158 fleet, missing units in a morning, occasional replacement 156s, broken heating/aircon units, plus further passenger growth, plus the cost of getting the units up to standard with accessible toilets...

I can't help but think that this information is required on the platform before passengers board, rather than on the train after people are caught up in a crush loaded carriage - I accept that on a train with through gangways this is less of an issue, but nevertheless.

How's the EMT franchise direct award and renewal fit with the removal of the 185s from TPE ? Given the comment above about maintenance in Manchester, plus the clearance already in place for Sheffield to Liverpool, plus the numbers being just right for providing Notttingham-Liverpool, I can't...

Given all the fuss about the ramped interiors of the AT300 bi-modes, I'm surprised we haven't seen all hell break out about the stepped and ramped interiors of the Stadler trains - steps back from lighting the blue touch paper ;-) hahaha

This is starting to feel like a fawlty towers episode - no, I was talking to you but looking at her ;-) Move along chaps

Yes, I'm aware of that, but why put it on just one of the four Stadler references.

The graphic on Railway Gazette suggests a different supplier for the three car units, "Stadler AG" rather than "Stadler" - typo or actually a different type of unit ?

Think he means four/five linked units unlike what we have now where northern have plenty of two+two units which can't be walked right through

To be fair, I wasn't suggesting that the 365/360s would be scrapped... Just musing at the influx of new trains... It's rather like the early 00s again.

Are we heading into a new era of shorter lifespan units ? We've been conditioned for a couple of decades now into mend and make do, but with the huge investment coming along, the really old stock or unsuitable stock is now looking increasing likely to get scrapped. Thoughts ?

That's it, shove the old stuff up north ;-) Seriously though, 21+5 360s should easily find a home,

Those numbers do add up... Currently 161x 4 car units 317/321/360, plus 30x 4 car 379 according to Wikipedia numbers... Stadler are known for making small specialised fleets, so these are unlikely to be 383 units of the same design and use.

I really can't see the 317 fleet being cascaded, but that does leave a lot of 321s to find homes for ! The smaller 360 fleet will be easy to relocate, as will the Electrostars.... Lots of Mk3s going to Rotherham again... What condition are the 90s in ? Could they be made to work with the...