Maybe that's why it was called One... As in "You only have one choice! Now buy your ticket and quit moaning."
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Goodbye National Express East Anglia.......
- Thread starter ginger
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Maybe that's why it was called One... As in "You only have one choice! Now buy your ticket and quit moaning."
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transmanche
Established Member
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But having then lost the Great Northern branch, perhaps it should have ended up as more like 0.8?
"Platform One for the 11.20 point 8 service to Liverpool Street"
F Great Eastern
Established Member
Forgot to say, in general whilst very little was invested in the former Anglia Railways and First Great Eastern area with regards to repainting and cleaning, and stations in general bar a few exceptions, the former West Anglia part which lets not forget was under control of National Express during the WAGN days, has even less.
I remember there being lots of liveries dating back to before WAGN and even some plain white ones that ran around for years if my memory is correct. Also still today, there are many hints of Network South East colours on the West Anglia side.
I remember there being lots of liveries dating back to before WAGN and even some plain white ones that ran around for years if my memory is correct. Also still today, there are many hints of Network South East colours on the West Anglia side.
Wagn did the same, with pretty poor refreshes of its trains (most notably the 317/1s) and only fitting CCTV and CIS on some trains because I believe they got a grant. They fitted the screens on the 317/1s but never bought the software so they sat doing nothing for one or two years. It was FCC that got them working, and ultimately did another refresh that fixed the flooring, lighting and other fittings.
Wagn had even seen fit to use vinyl stickers throughout the train, mostly advertising itself, that when removed in 2006 peeled off loads of bits of the anti-graffiti paint! A total bodge.
The only good thing about Wagn was that they seemed to maintain trains well at Hornsey when there were loads of horror stories about trains going in broken to Ilford and coming out broken (but patched up or bodged to keep them going for another few days/hours/minutes/seconds).
I guess National Express didn't like investing money, and if they ever bid again then any promises in their bid should be looked at very closely to check that what they say they're going to do is actually done, and to a decent standard.
When I use NXEA, it amazes me how bad some of the interiors can be. The stupid multicoloured interior on some 317s, the (at one time) amazing 317/6s that almost looked identical to the 365 interiors - except now they look like they're a mess, and the lack of any effort on the Mk3s. The work on these reminded me very much of what they did on the 317/1s on the GN route - very little indeed.
However, c2c seems to be well run - but is that because it has an easy route, and new trains? The question would be, how good will it be when the trains need to be refreshed?
Yes. Perhaps stations should be repainted but with a generic colour scheme that is nothing to do with the operating company? Do we really need station signs with unique fonts and logos - and some being white on black, others being black on white, or white on purple or whatever?
Do seats need to be coloured after the TOC? Do lamp posts? Who gives a damn who operates the station, even if you are used to the concept of having multiple operators to choose from when actually travelling (assuming you do, which many don't).
Trains will need to be repainted - but why not a standard base colour, with operators able to place their livery (via vinyls that can be easily removed) on the lower half - or just in some parts of the train? Perhaps a small section on the front too.
Of course, this is all part of my long-term vision to have private operators running trains under contract to the likes of TfL (or similar) with tighter regulation and fare controls. The only exception perhaps being the Intercity routes.
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Do stations even need to be run by the TOCs? You don't have airlines running the airports so why not just have Network Rail manage all the stations?
ChristopherJ
Repeatedly returning banned member
Ditto.
I couldn't stand NXEA from day "one".
The instant the DfT announced that NX had got their hands on the Greater Anglia franchise on the 1st April 2004, my gut instinct was that it would be down hill from that day forward - and how right my instinct was!
Another pigsty of a TOC to add to the list of rail operations that NX have ruined... Central Trains, East Coast, Midland Mainline, Scotrail, Silverlink, WAGN, the list goes on... :roll:
Has anyone thought of organising a farewell party (or more appropriately a thank god party!) on the very last train operated by NXEA? If it's the usual 02:00 hrs franchise transfer between operators, I believe the last train operated by NXEA would be the 01:03 Liverpool Street - Chingford, unless someone knows different.
It wouldn't have to. There would be no need to repaint at each franchise change if Network Rail managed all the stations. It would also save some of the TOCs from using some of their subsidy to do this.
Ditto.
I couldn't stand NXEA from day "one".
The instant the DfT announced that NX had got their hands on the Greater Anglia franchise on the 1st April 2004, my gut instinct was that it would be down hill from that day forward - and how right my instinct was!
Another pigsty of a TOC to add to the list of rail operations that NX have ruined... Central Trains, East Coast, Midland Mainline, Scotrail, Silverlink, WAGN, the list goes on... :roll:
Has anyone thought of organising a farewell party (or more appropriately a thank god party!) on the very last train operated by NXEA? If it's the usual 02:00 hrs franchise transfer between operators, I believe the last train operated by NXEA would be the 01:03 Liverpool Street - Chingford, unless someone knows different.
I work with plenty of ex-Silverlink staff who feel like that was a golden age compared to London Midland
I'd defend Midland Mainline, and I don't recall NX Scotrail being particularly bad (although I hardly used it intensively or on the most challenging parts of its network).
But the others you mention....fair enough.
c2c remain excellent, though....
But the others you mention....fair enough.
c2c remain excellent, though....
O L Leigh
Established Member
Are you and Ginger one and the same...? What a pile of steaming <snipped>!!
The ONLY places you will still see any vestige of NSE is on a few Car Stop boards. The rest of it is long gone. As for pre-WAGN liveries, it was actually NX under the guise of 'one' that swept them away by repainting all the LT&S Cl317/1s into the "refreshers" livery at the same time as the WAGN "purple paupers". The only livery that survived once all the Cl315s had been refurbed was the red/cream WAGN livey on just three Cl317/6s, which is actually more recent that the FGE grey/green/blue livery that is currently disappearing (at long last).
As for stations, I am not aware of a single station on the WA that retains any WAGN branding let alone anything from pre-WAGN days.
I don't subscribe to this "brave new world" view that some seem to hold on to. East Anglia has been the poor relation even when it was being run by BR as part of the nationalised network. Likewise, if the stories that my more experienced colleagues tell me are anything to go by, Ilford depot has always struggled with it's workload and has never been synonymous with expert traincare. BR and NSE struggled with it, as did FGE to a certain extent. The DfT decision that the WA fleet had to move out of Hornsey and FCC's subsequent decision to shaft 'one' over stocks of Cl317 spares was hardly likely to help Ilford any. These are problems that have affected the region for decades and it will take longer than the life of any franchise yet awarded in the region for an operator to fully resolve them.
If any Anglia franchisee has struggled it is largely because of the historic problems that they have inherited. FGE, who often get held up as paragons of virtue, struggled just the same as the other constituent companies prior to the formation of the Greater Anglia franchise. If it was infrastructure or rolling stock problems it was meddling from the DfT.
It doesn't matter whether it's NX, First, Stagecoach, DB or whoever, unless the Greater Anglia area gets some DECENT investment to address it's problems together with a proper modern rolling stock maintenance facility it will ALWAYS struggle. To think that Abellio will be a "new broom" when all they have is a caretaker contract is naivety of the highest order. Greater Anglia will take decades and the commitment of an operator of Chiltern's calibre to start to show the improvements that you're crying out for.
So what is this thread all about? Is it simply self-serving so Ginger can once again revisit NX's greatest failings (yawn!!)...? Or to level justifiable criticisms at their shortcomings? Or what? I've said many times before that NXEA has the largest fleet of pre-privatisation rolling stock of any London based TOC which has an impact on the appearance and standard of the fleet compared to their rivals. I've also said many times that the infrastructure in East Anglia is overdue a major overhaul. The mainlines from Liv St have barely seen any modernisation since the original 1960's electrification schemes were extended out to Norwich and Kings Lynn in the late 1980's. In a decade where rail travel has grown by such massive amounts the rail operators of East Anglia have barely seen a penny invested in the kinds of upgrades that are desperately needed. I'll say it again, it doesn't matter whose name is on the side of the train the situation will not improve markedly unless there is major investment.
O L Leigh
DJ737
Member
G'day
How about 2K28 00:50 Liverpool St to Southend Victoria, arr Southend at 01:58?
Cheers
DJ737
Melbourne, Australia
lyesbkz
Member
Nice to see how much effort went into the 'logo'.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
I think it is only for a period of 29 months in total. I have signed up for their e-mails, to monitor what they have to say for themselves.
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Nice to see one of our Australian members entering this thread..
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You are right......if NXEA were running the old timetable which FGE ran (and was replaced in 2004) there would be far fewer problems on the GEML, simply because there were fewer trains which allowed the service to recover which is where a lot of the distortion of opinion comes in. And that timetable simply wouldn't be acceptiable now for service level/seating capacity reasons.
I have worked at a mainline staiton in the morning peak, you simply are keying out trains every few minutes at one point...a slight delay quickly escalates simply through lack of line capacity.
Yes there are other problems and FGE kept things a little tidier, but as you say the main problem is the infrastructure, which isnt going to change
(please not difference of user between myself and "F Great Eastern")
90019
Established Member
From what I've heard, MML was pretty good, as well as NX ScotRail. The few times I used Central I never had any problems either.
Out of curiosity, did you regularly use all those TOCs, or is it a case of 'it's NX so they must have been crap'?
F Great Eastern
Established Member
I'm well aware of the infrastructure problems in the area and of course they are not the fault of National Express, but hopefully in the next few years we should see Network Rail improve that kind of thing. But I was not referring to that anywhere in my post so I'm unsure where you got this impression from?
However if you are seriously saying they have invested a lot of money the state of trains and the fact many of them can go around for weeks without so much of a clean is not acceptable no matter what the excuse is, I would say the same for any operator, not just NXEA. There has been next to no money spent on the refurbishment of trains and that is a fact as other posters have said. A lot of things are outside the control of National Express, but the cleaning and the on train environment is something that is certainly under their control which they have failed to spend adequate sums on.
At the end of the day the question is how many people are satisfied with the service now compared with the percentage of people, as that is the true way to judge a particular franchise, and unfortunately right now the current operators are generally more unpopular than the previous ones in most areas covered by the franchise apart from in a small number of areas. You just have to look at the satisfaction ratings now compared with what they were pre NX.
Although it is admirable for a staff member to come on her and put up a good defense for his company, but unfortunately by working for the company the view is simply not objective because of the conflict of interest, the same way as it would be if I was talking about the (Non transport) company that I work for and saying I was right any my customers are wrong. At the end of the day it comes down to what the users of the train service think, no matter how good the staff think they are, the public are the ones who use it, and pay their wages and to most people, they are generally not sad to see the franchise go.
Of course the new owners are on essentially a management contract and whilst I'm not sad to see National Express go, I do appreciate that the new owners are unlikely to make much change so I'm not going to be singing from the rooftops that they've gone soon like Ginger, it'll take the franchise after that for it to happen so it's not going to magically change a few days later and everything to be okay.
Oh and whilst the WAGN logo may not appear on WAGN stations these days, all that has happened has been someone has either vinyl'd over it with a plain white and various other mod's. The particular favorite is a the metallic blue colored one square on the left, the station name in WAGN dark blue and then the National Express white with rail grey logos on the right, an example of which here, although I realise it's not there anymore but it exists still at other stations. Also you really need to take a trip along the West Anglia line and some of the major stations on the line have NSE red and even the NSE logo around.
In relation to the 321's Those who used the trains on the GE would know that there was more than one of these liveries. If I have my dates right FGE got the franchise in 1997 and had most 321's repainted by the end of 1998 in the original Great Eastern livery with the F in roundels before the Great Eastern Name. From 1999 all of the 321's went for a full high quality refurbishment which took a few years to complete all trains and came out with what was the second Green/Grey/Blue FGE livery which was branded fully at the front of every train.
They're also in far better condition than the 321/4's, which ironically enough were in East Anglia initially, but missed the refurbishment programme because they transfered to Silverlink and also spent some time at Midland Mainline, where they were not refreshed, since some of them have came back to National Express East Anglia, where they are in far worse condition than the ones that had been properly looked after.
However if you are seriously saying they have invested a lot of money the state of trains and the fact many of them can go around for weeks without so much of a clean is not acceptable no matter what the excuse is, I would say the same for any operator, not just NXEA. There has been next to no money spent on the refurbishment of trains and that is a fact as other posters have said. A lot of things are outside the control of National Express, but the cleaning and the on train environment is something that is certainly under their control which they have failed to spend adequate sums on.
At the end of the day the question is how many people are satisfied with the service now compared with the percentage of people, as that is the true way to judge a particular franchise, and unfortunately right now the current operators are generally more unpopular than the previous ones in most areas covered by the franchise apart from in a small number of areas. You just have to look at the satisfaction ratings now compared with what they were pre NX.
Although it is admirable for a staff member to come on her and put up a good defense for his company, but unfortunately by working for the company the view is simply not objective because of the conflict of interest, the same way as it would be if I was talking about the (Non transport) company that I work for and saying I was right any my customers are wrong. At the end of the day it comes down to what the users of the train service think, no matter how good the staff think they are, the public are the ones who use it, and pay their wages and to most people, they are generally not sad to see the franchise go.
Of course the new owners are on essentially a management contract and whilst I'm not sad to see National Express go, I do appreciate that the new owners are unlikely to make much change so I'm not going to be singing from the rooftops that they've gone soon like Ginger, it'll take the franchise after that for it to happen so it's not going to magically change a few days later and everything to be okay.
Oh and whilst the WAGN logo may not appear on WAGN stations these days, all that has happened has been someone has either vinyl'd over it with a plain white and various other mod's. The particular favorite is a the metallic blue colored one square on the left, the station name in WAGN dark blue and then the National Express white with rail grey logos on the right, an example of which here, although I realise it's not there anymore but it exists still at other stations. Also you really need to take a trip along the West Anglia line and some of the major stations on the line have NSE red and even the NSE logo around.
In relation to the 321's Those who used the trains on the GE would know that there was more than one of these liveries. If I have my dates right FGE got the franchise in 1997 and had most 321's repainted by the end of 1998 in the original Great Eastern livery with the F in roundels before the Great Eastern Name. From 1999 all of the 321's went for a full high quality refurbishment which took a few years to complete all trains and came out with what was the second Green/Grey/Blue FGE livery which was branded fully at the front of every train.
They're also in far better condition than the 321/4's, which ironically enough were in East Anglia initially, but missed the refurbishment programme because they transfered to Silverlink and also spent some time at Midland Mainline, where they were not refreshed, since some of them have came back to National Express East Anglia, where they are in far worse condition than the ones that had been properly looked after.
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Probably judges NX on the time they had NXEC, during which they were clearing up GNER's mess (in the same way ATN did with MTL).
Central were good but got worse towards the end, MML were good, Wessex were Brilliant.
ChristopherJ
Repeatedly returning banned member
Indeed.
If they were so brilliant, they would still retain the said operations mentioned - even after the amalgamations, modifications and splits of the franchises.
They'll be gone in 9 days, lets move on...
90019
Established Member
Indeed.
If they were so brilliant, they would still retain the said operations mentioned - even after the amalgamations, modifications and splits of the franchises.
They'll be gone in 9 days, lets move on...
Can you answer the question, please?
O L Leigh
Established Member
I shall address the main thrust of your post by pointing out that my contribution was not intended as a direct reply to specific points raised, nor was it intended as a spirited defence of my employer. I simply hoped to point out that the Greater Anglia area has deep-seated problems that require addressing if they are to reap the improvements that you desire. I'm not suggesting that NX is a paragon of virtue, merely pointing out that any operator would have struggled given the same set of circumstances, as I am sure time and experience will show.
But to pick up on some of your specific points.
No train goes around "for weeks without so much [as] a clean" as you suggest. There are carriage washer plants at numerous locations and train cleaners working at terminus stations and stabling points emptying trains of rubbish and cleaning toilets.
Please don't mistake trains carrying grafitti for trains that have not been cleaned, because not all locations have the facilities for grafitti removal and so it can take a while for it to be dealt with. It is particularly bad where the grafitti has been applied to the train fronts above the windscreens, as happens with Cl321s and Cl360s, because this is above the cantrail stripe and therefore requires attention at Ilford where the OLE on individual shed roads can be isolated.
Yes the fleet requires investment, and that is precisely the sort of thing I was referring to in my earlier post. I will say it again, NX has by far the largest fleet of pre-privatisation rolling stock of any London-based operator and probably of any TOC in the UK. No other operator faces the same challenges. A fleet refurbishment programme to bring the NXEA fleet up the same standards as, say, the Cl455 fleets on SWT and Southern would require a MASSIVE investment.
However, that doesn't mean that nothing has been done, although mostly these have been in-service modifications to improve safety and reliability.
So my opinion counts for nothing? Gee, thanks.
I have no conflict of interest. The charge is that NX have failed to invest in Greater Anglia. As an "insider" I have the opportunity to answer that charge. If it conflicts with your views then I can only apologise.
...and perhaps not even until the franchise after that.
This is my point. Greater Anglia has been allowed to become a backwater on a "make do and mend" attitude for far too long, dating way back to pre-sectorisation days under BR. The problems are just too deep-seated to be fixed by a change of franchisee. The DfT needs to sit up and take notice and start doing something about upgrading the network and replacing the rolling stock.
I do, every day I'm at work.
As I said, I only see it on some Car Stop boards. Where else should I be looking?
One of us is confused here.
Cl321/4s were delivered new to the Euston suburban lines and operated by NSE (although some did find there way onto the GE). As far as I am aware Midland Mainline never operated any of these units, not even on a temporary loan basis, so they would not have been expected to carry out any work on them.
O L Leigh
But to pick up on some of your specific points.
No train goes around "for weeks without so much [as] a clean" as you suggest. There are carriage washer plants at numerous locations and train cleaners working at terminus stations and stabling points emptying trains of rubbish and cleaning toilets.
Please don't mistake trains carrying grafitti for trains that have not been cleaned, because not all locations have the facilities for grafitti removal and so it can take a while for it to be dealt with. It is particularly bad where the grafitti has been applied to the train fronts above the windscreens, as happens with Cl321s and Cl360s, because this is above the cantrail stripe and therefore requires attention at Ilford where the OLE on individual shed roads can be isolated.
Yes the fleet requires investment, and that is precisely the sort of thing I was referring to in my earlier post. I will say it again, NX has by far the largest fleet of pre-privatisation rolling stock of any London-based operator and probably of any TOC in the UK. No other operator faces the same challenges. A fleet refurbishment programme to bring the NXEA fleet up the same standards as, say, the Cl455 fleets on SWT and Southern would require a MASSIVE investment.
However, that doesn't mean that nothing has been done, although mostly these have been in-service modifications to improve safety and reliability.
So my opinion counts for nothing? Gee, thanks.
I have no conflict of interest. The charge is that NX have failed to invest in Greater Anglia. As an "insider" I have the opportunity to answer that charge. If it conflicts with your views then I can only apologise.
...and perhaps not even until the franchise after that.
This is my point. Greater Anglia has been allowed to become a backwater on a "make do and mend" attitude for far too long, dating way back to pre-sectorisation days under BR. The problems are just too deep-seated to be fixed by a change of franchisee. The DfT needs to sit up and take notice and start doing something about upgrading the network and replacing the rolling stock.
I do, every day I'm at work.
As I said, I only see it on some Car Stop boards. Where else should I be looking?
One of us is confused here.
Cl321/4s were delivered new to the Euston suburban lines and operated by NSE (although some did find there way onto the GE). As far as I am aware Midland Mainline never operated any of these units, not even on a temporary loan basis, so they would not have been expected to carry out any work on them.
O L Leigh
sprinterguy
Veteran Member
Eh? The 321/4s were built for, and delivered when new to, West Coast main line services through Northampton weren't they? And that's where they remained right up until London Midland replaced them with 350s. Granted that a few (321438-448) moved across to the Great Eastern in NSE days though.
Midland Mainline didn't operate any local/commuter services, and the only section of their route that is electrified is Thameslink up to Bedford.
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Ummm, because it states where the TOC operates? Sounds like the best policy for naming TOCs to me. I know this debate has already been had a few pages back, but I don't see how adding a company name to the front of the TOC title makes the name more exciting or inventive. Personally, it's something I find quite irritating: The frequent changeover of franchisee renders it pointless: I know a few people who still erroneously refer to Crosscountry as "Virgin" and Northern as "First North Western". Admittedly in Virgins' case they do have a strong brand that is instantly recognisable for many people.
F Great Eastern
Established Member
Whatever the issue is at the end of the day train presentation is down on what it used to be, the average person doesn't care about the reasons for it, other than there needs to be more done about it. as I've said the Windows on the MK3's especially are very grubby, misty and foggy and full of dirt that in the sunlight it's near impossible to see out of them. Also whilst the remarks about graffiti and the location of it may well make them more difficult to clean for the reasons you outline, other franchises, and until a couple of years into this franchise when things started to change, they used to be done a lot quicker.
For sure they have the a large fleet of pre-privatization stock, I don't disagree with that, part of that is down to DAFT for not authorizing the order of the extra 360's which was cut down, all be that a small part of the problem as it would only have added a few extra trains. However the refurbishment that has gone into current trains is very sub-standard, I don't know how you can lay the blame at anyone other than National Express, they should have refurbished stock better and to a higher standard, whatever the rights and wrongs about the size of the fleet, the fact is the bare minimum was spent on refurbishment and whilst previous franchises were by no means perfect, they did spend more money on rolling stock.
And a lot of that work that has been done has been pretty good, but to the average man on the street, who is not a train driver or enthusiast, they wilol not look at it like that and will ask themselves, what have National Express done for me in the 2004-2012 time period the vast majority of people in Essex and Suffolk do not think very much. When First Great Eastern and Anglia Railways for whatever their rights and wrongs, people, including rail groups were lamenting their loss in the local press.
Of course you have a right to air your views, everyone does, I'm just saying that you can't judge the franchise from a customer point of view because of what you know and deal with internally, the general point is, and I'm not just saying this, but if you look at all of the satisfaction surveys over the past few years in general people are not very happy with the performance of the operator. That is not just my views, but it is reflected in the national rail survey results every year which suggests that people are not happy with the service provided by NXEA
I agree it has been allowed to do that, and that is without doubt wrong and the DFT need to actually deal with that situation and actually set better franchise criteria the next time around. However at the same time nobody forced National Express to put a bid in like the one they did for the franchise, whilst at the same time nobody was forced to accept it in the DFT, so you can't just blame one party for this.
It's not just on the platforms, it's inside the stations, ticket halls and even on stations exteriors in some situations. It's even at one terminus. I won't name them all because I'm just curious if anyone else has noticed them, but the stations closest to London are not the place you should be looking.
Midland Mainline was a mistake, they were at Central Trains for a while, with all the past midlands and central names throughout the year and now I got mixed up between the two, although they were with Central and Silverlink for a good while and received very little attention.
87015
Established Member
I'm still surprised FGE are being held up as a paragon of virtue when they reduced GEML seating capacity which is by far and away the biggest single issue. NX have brought in a complete step change in the peak capacity yet people are wibbling because the station nameboard hasn't been painted which obviously makes a big difference to your daily journey. I'd rather have a externally grubby 12 car than an ex-works 8 car every day of the week.
I can't see much getting better with Abellio. Getting rid of stock on routes bursting at the seams says enough about what they are looking for.
I can't see much getting better with Abellio. Getting rid of stock on routes bursting at the seams says enough about what they are looking for.
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iphone76
Member
Personally, I liked FGE because they did the following:-
- introduced all day fast running on the Southend Line (and Metro 10min service to Shenfield)
- introduced 3 trains an hour on a Sunday to Southend and Colchester (now reduced to 2)
-free parking at weekends (long gone)
-had the +1 free ticket for season ticket holders at weekends ( long gone)
-Class 321s refurbed (most not touched internally or still floating around in FGE colours)
You also got the impression that they were trying to improve things by speeding up the timetable, etc.
I understand some changes may have been mandated by the DfT, but as a regular user, these are the things which affect me.
I also agree that the recent timetable change (and that of December 2010) has increased capacity into London on the southend/mainline, but the cost of this is being late into London almost everyday by the lack of contingency space when things go wrong - which is literally everyday. (Certainly since the most recent change).
F Great Eastern
Established Member
I agree that there were some capacity problems with FGE and not everything was perfect, however looking back we did have some trains running in eight car formations when we should have had some more twelve car formations however this was not the fault of FGE as they wanted to order more new vehicles but were not allowed!
When the order for the Desiro's was placed it was for just over 100 vehicles (the exact number escapes me), however the SRA in their infinite wisdom said that actually there was no need to order that many vehicles, and instead cut it back to 21x4 car vehicles (84) Just four or five extra four car trains would have made a huge difference.
The biggest wastage of stock was the First 'one' timetable which they replaced 2x4 car EMU's running to Ipswich twice an hour off-peak, with one 2-3 car 170 running all the way from London to Peterbrough/Lowestoft. The overcrowding on those services was very severe. Thankfully in recent years they've gone back to using EMU's at Ipswich in place of 170s, but it is a shame it took them so long. The recent timetable introduced and the one in Winter 2010 was good. But it's taken them almost seven years of the franchise to get that far!
In any case I don't think that just presentation at stations is a problem, I've already mentioned train appearance, condition of trains internally, many MK3 seats in first class or lamps do not work, information provided at stations is in general very poor and just in general the service is nothing impressive.
EG at Ipswich since they changed the layout of the booking hall and cut back the ticket office staffing. Result being last week I had to wait 30 minutes to pick up a ticket at a self service ticket machine, there was a gentleman moaning who wanted to speak to staff at the ticket office, because one person was trying to buy tickets for today but the person in front of him was buying tickets for the next two months, as there is no separate tickets for today and future anymore and the travel office was closed down and two ticket machines is not really adequate anymore because of the reduced staffing.
starrymarkb
Established Member
Most operators do rolling refurbs anyway?
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