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Formula 1

DarloRich

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Driver of the day award for Alonso taking the dog dirt Aston Martin to 8th?

Antonelli 9 fingers on the championship trophy?

Despite being bonkers the Ferrari strategy almost worked out!
 
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Vinyl_Lap

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Driver of the day award for Alonso taking the dog dirt Aston Martin to 8th?
Yep, he was my driver of the day too. It's insane how Alonso can just keep going. I know he's not old, per se, but I saw a YouTube short last night showing how long other drivers' careers would have been if they had stayed in F1 for the same length. I think there was something insane like Prost would've retired in 2006, Niki Lauda in 1997 and Jacques Villeneuve in 2022. All daft, I know, but it's insane nonetheless!
 

DarloRich

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Yep, he was my driver of the day too. It's insane how Alonso can just keep going.
As long as Stroll is in the other Aston Fernando can just keep chugging away as he will always beat his team mate ;)

Personally I would give it up and go and live on my super yacht! It cant be fun.
 

DelW

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Driver of the day award for Alonso taking the dog dirt Aston Martin to 8th?

Antonelli 9 fingers on the championship trophy?

Despite being bonkers the Ferrari strategy almost worked out!
A classic 'it's not over until it's over' happened in the World Rally Championship last weekend.

Quick summary: Elfyn Evans (who'd been runner-up 5 times in the last 6 years) had led through much of the season. Going into the last round, Evans had a lead over the other two possible contenders, Oliver Solberg and Sami Pajari. But in that final round in Sardinia, Solberg was leading the field, with Evans down in 5th or 6th - which wiped out his points advantage. It all came down to the last 5km stage - whoever was faster on that would take the championship. Solberg went last and was quicker throughout, looking certain to take his first championship. Until, within sight of the finish line, he took a bend wide, over-corrected and went off the road, losing over 10 seconds before he could recover to the finish line. He came 8th on the stage, leaving Evans with a 5 point advantage, becoming the first British winner since Richard Burns 25 years ago. So the championship was decided in the last quarter minute of the season.
 

D1511

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A classic 'it's not over until it's over' happened in the World Rally Championship last weekend.

Quick summary: Elfyn Evans (who'd been runner-up 5 times in the last 6 years) had led through much of the season. Going into the last round, Evans had a lead over the other two possible contenders, Oliver Solberg and Sami Pajari. But in that final round in Sardinia, Solberg was leading the field, with Evans down in 5th or 6th - which wiped out his points advantage. It all came down to the last 5km stage - whoever was faster on that would take the championship. Solberg went last and was quicker throughout, looking certain to take his first championship. Until, within sight of the finish line, he took a bend wide, over-corrected and went off the road, losing over 10 seconds before he could recover to the finish line. He came 8th on the stage, leaving Evans with a 5 point advantage, becoming the first British winner since Richard Burns 25 years ago. So the championship was decided in the last quarter minute of the season.
Nice to see some people with driving skills getting a mention in this thread! ;)
 

Big Jumby 74

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A blast from the past. Couple of my ancient grainy pics from Brands in the early 80's. Lost interest myself in later times, it all seemed to get too technical, rather than leave it to driver skill.
 

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DarloRich

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8 at the very most.
Have you seen the number of buttons on steering wheel. These F1 drivers are bred with extra digits! ;)
A classic 'it's not over until it's over' happened in the World Rally Championship last weekend.
it is over. The gap between Antonelli and the others may decrease but he could almost give up now and be champion. Russell will start the next GP from the back due to an engine change

For the Solberg situation to be equivalent he would have needed to be about 17 hours ahead of Evans before crashing!
 
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DelW

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A blast from the past. Couple of my ancient grainy pics from Brands in the early 80's. Lost interest myself in later times, it all seemed to get too technical, rather than leave it to driver skill.
A reminder of how easy it was to get close up to the action in those days, you'd never be able to take pictures like that today. I still have a T-shirt from the last GP I saw in person, the Grand Prix of Europe held at Brands Hatch in 1983 (the British GP was at Silverstone I think).

I think the software farce at the start in Sepang may boost the moves to get F1 back to proper racing engines, and to reduce or forget the hybrid stuff. The hybrid systems have a negligible effect on F1's carbon footprint, and indeed the effect might well be negative when the carbon cost of manufacturing short-life batteries and electric motors is factored in. There don't appear to be many real world applications for such complex systems either.

Personally I'd like F1 to go back to V8s, with or without turbos, but definitely without all the software controlled hybrid systems that interfere with proper racing. Anyone who wants to watch artificially game-ified racing can go to Formula E, with its fan voted power boosts and so on. I find it unwatchable.
 

DarloRich

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I think the software farce at the start in Sepang may boost the moves to get F1 back to proper racing engines, and to reduce or forget the hybrid stuff. The hybrid systems have a negligible effect on F1's carbon footprint, and indeed the effect might well be negative when the carbon cost of manufacturing short-life batteries and electric motors is factored in. There don't appear to be many real world applications for such complex systems either.
Most road-car engines these days are turbos and have some degree of hybridisation - F1 isn't going to go back to plain naturally aspirated engines nor should they.

Hybridisation if not full electric is the future and the manufactures want that
 

SynthD

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I think the software farce at the start in Sepang may boost the moves
How? The people in charge understand the issue and solution on the day, and hear from the teams who don’t want the past. There were huge amounts of electronics in the 90s, a supposed golden era.

I’m still expecting the FIA to work out how to rescind FormulaE’s exclusive right to fully electric racing, as that is F1’s road relevant future.
 

75A

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A reminder of how easy it was to get close up to the action in those days, you'd never be able to take pictures like that today. I still have a T-shirt from the last GP I saw in person, the Grand Prix of Europe held at Brands Hatch in 1983 (the British GP was at Silverstone I think).

I think the software farce at the start in Sepang may boost the moves to get F1 back to proper racing engines, and to reduce or forget the hybrid stuff. The hybrid systems have a negligible effect on F1's carbon footprint, and indeed the effect might well be negative when the carbon cost of manufacturing short-life batteries and electric motors is factored in. There don't appear to be many real world applications for such complex systems either.

Personally I'd like F1 to go back to V8s, with or without turbos, but definitely without all the software controlled hybrid systems that interfere with proper racing. Anyone who wants to watch artificially game-ified racing can go to Formula E, with its fan voted power boosts and so on. I find it unwatchable.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

The 83 British GP was @ Silverstone. Brands had the even years Silverstone the odd ones up until 86 after which Silverstone had them all.
 

John R

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Positives of the Bahrain Grand Prix in Malaysia:
A good race with plenty of action
Great to see Sepang back on the calendar challenging the drivers & the teams with the tyre wear
A large number of spectators
Great thinking by the Bahrain people & the Malaysian people to get the race on
A first win of the season for Max & the first win for Red Bull’s in house Ford badged engine

Downside
The rediculous system problem causing the cars to stop, malfunction & various other things on the initial formation laps.

Something that could have been been tested at the Barcelona test on a wet day with the safety car going round slowly with cars following & this bug becoming apparent, rather than it happening on a race weekend
The big downside as a spectator was the chaos getting to and from the track on the first two days, along with some problems inside the track in terms of inadequate catering and water supply (after stripping everyone of any food and water on the way in).

Not the Malaysian’s fault, as Bahrain insisted on paying for and running the whole show, including security, catering, transport etc, and woefully mismanaged it until the Malaysian authorities apparently put their foot down, especially with regard to transport.

It was a shame as no doubt it will reflect badly on Sepang, unfairly, and took away from the actual trackside experience of the race, which was by some margin the most exciting I have been to. I hope the Malaysian government is encouraged enough by the turnout to move ahead with the noises it is making to get the track back on the calendar.
 

Vinyl_Lap

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How? The people in charge understand the issue and solution on the day, and hear from the teams who don’t want the past. There were huge amounts of electronics in the 90s, a supposed golden era.

I’m still expecting the FIA to work out how to rescind FormulaE’s exclusive right to fully electric racing, as that is F1’s road relevant future.
I think the Formula E effect we are currently experiencing in Formula 1 is woeful, to say the least. We have cars that are anti-racing, with drivers losing power/speed due to clipping and even stories of the cars getting "lost", such as Valtteri Bottas at Baku and then having either no brakes or sudden energy deployment dumps. Then there's the constant need to introduce street circuit after street circuit. I know Monaco is not a fan favourite, but it is the original. It's pretty unchanged since the 1920s. Since then, no other street circuit has come close to sticking on the calendar for any similar length of time. Dallas, Phoenix, Long Beach and Adelaide are the others that spring to mind, and only Adelaide really became a favourite.

But since 2008 we have had Singapore, Valencia, Baku, Jeddah, Vegas and now Madrid. Only Valencia dropped off the calendar, and at the same time we have lost Hockenheim, Nurburgring, Magny-Cours, Sepang, Imola and Zandvoort. And now we have Spa and Barcelona alternating! Yuck!

And the cars? You mentioned the electronic aids in the 1990s, and I grant you they were a pain. But I can't recall a car between 1990 and 1999 that suffered from "super clipping" or a sudden energy dump. The electronic aids you allude to were soon nipped in the bud too. Everything was abolished in 1994, and traction control was not reintroduced until 2001. So back then, apart from anti-stall and the advent of sequential paddle shift gearboxes, the driver's right foot was the determining factor of whether you took Eau Rouge or 130R flat. Not running out of electrical energy and running on essentially a Formula 3 car's worth of power. It's insulting.
 

GB

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Since then, no other street circuit has come close to sticking on the calendar for any similar length of time. Dallas, Phoenix, Long Beach and Adelaide are the others that spring to mind, and only Adelaide really became a favourite.
Melbourne seems to be well received.
 

BuhSnarf

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I think the Formula E effect we are currently experiencing in Formula 1 is woeful, to say the least. We have cars that are anti-racing, with drivers losing power/speed due to clipping and even stories of the cars getting "lost", such as Valtteri Bottas at Baku and then having either no brakes or sudden energy deployment dumps. Then there's the constant need to introduce street circuit after street circuit. I know Monaco is not a fan favourite, but it is the original. It's pretty unchanged since the 1920s. Since then, no other street circuit has come close to sticking on the calendar for any similar length of time. Dallas, Phoenix, Long Beach and Adelaide are the others that spring to mind, and only Adelaide really became a favourite.

But since 2008 we have had Singapore, Valencia, Baku, Jeddah, Vegas and now Madrid. Only Valencia dropped off the calendar, and at the same time we have lost Hockenheim, Nurburgring, Magny-Cours, Sepang, Imola and Zandvoort. And now we have Spa and Barcelona alternating! Yuck!

And the cars? You mentioned the electronic aids in the 1990s, and I grant you they were a pain. But I can't recall a car between 1990 and 1999 that suffered from "super clipping" or a sudden energy dump. The electronic aids you allude to were soon nipped in the bud too. Everything was abolished in 1994, and traction control was not reintroduced until 2001. So back then, apart from anti-stall and the advent of sequential paddle shift gearboxes, the driver's right foot was the determining factor of whether you took Eau Rouge or 130R flat. Not running out of electrical energy and running on essentially a Formula 3 car's worth of power. It's insulting.
Cars in the 90s were just as "anti racing" - with many, many, many boring racing in the 90s - we just rose tinted view them now. A cars performance was never "just" dictated by the drivers foot.

The best racing F1 has had has been over the past 15 or so years. The electronic aids having issues is no different from the PU reliability issues we used to have in the 80s and 90s. The sport is an engineering sport, not a stock series so there will ALWAYS be experimental technology used as it's what drives the engineers behind it and some will be amazing, some will be awful and some will be illegal. That's Formula 1 and that's ALWAYS been Formula 1.

If anything, it would be unusual in the age of electric cars / computer assisted technology if F1 didn't dabble in hybrid and AI assisted technology.
 

Vinyl_Lap

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Cars in the 90s were just as "anti racing" - with many, many, many boring racing in the 90s - we just rose tinted view them now.
There's no rose-tinted nonsense when I look back at those races. I'd take four or five genuine overtakes instead of this pathetic instant gratification nonsense of over-inflated DRS/boost assisted overtakes. Drivers being able to use tyres and fuel levels to their liking, resulting in a field spread of one, two or even three stoppers (Schumacher in Hungary '98 springs to mind), was and will always remain the golden age of the sport for me. Yes, there are those that will say the 70s and 80s were great too, and it was. But in the 90s you seemed to have that balance between small constructors like Jordan, Simtek, Larrousse and Pacific buying an engine, making a basic chassis and going racing and the sport steadily expanding. At one stage in the late 80s and early 90s, entries were so high you needed a pre-qualifying session and later the 107% rule.

There's a significant difference between an engine going pop (which they've tended to do since the dawn of the motor car) and a piece of code not working as it should. Or a gearbox failure or a loss of water/oil pressure. Cars have always had problems, but just like with Teslas and other similar daft vehicles, there's a difference between not having the latest software update and not changing your oil.

It says a lot when Sebastian Vettel has spent a lot of his time since retirement taking classic cars that he owns or has access to and runs them on sustainable synthetic fuels instead. This is the future. And sooner or later the penny will finally drop that F1 has gone down a route that has only harmed itself.
 

BuhSnarf

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There's no rose-tinted nonsense when I look back at those races. I'd take four or five genuine overtakes instead of this pathetic instant gratification nonsense of over-inflated DRS/boost assisted overtakes.

I'd suggest going back and rewatching some of the races, the great thing about F1TV is that they're all their in their entirety. Apart from some absolute bangers there is some right snoozefests!

Drivers being able to use tyres and fuel levels to their liking, resulting in a field spread of one, two or even three stoppers (Schumacher in Hungary '98 springs to mind), was and will always remain the golden age of the sport for me. Yes, there are those that will say the 70s and 80s were great too, and it was. But in the 90s you seemed to have that balance between small constructors like Jordan, Simtek, Larrousse and Pacific buying an engine, making a basic chassis and going racing and the sport steadily expanding. At one stage in the late 80s and early 90s, entries were so high you needed a pre-qualifying session and later the 107% rule.

Small constructors that with the exception of Jordan ran round at the back causing havoc or breaking down.
You're confusing cars looking less complicated with actual less complication, the teams at the time were still absolutely pushing the boundaries for the time and I remember in the 90s many "purist" fans who'd been watching from the 70s moaning that the cars were too complicated and relied too much on electronics.
The big teams were MILES in front of the rest of the field - to the point really where below the top 10 the rest of the field didn't really matter. The field spread now is so much better.
You did have pre-qualifying, which meant you had some teams who didn't enter a car in to a race for the majority of the season, it was hard to keep up with who was driving what and who was a good driver in poor machinery versus who was just an average driver in great machinery.

There's a significant difference between an engine going pop (which they've tended to do since the dawn of the motor car) and a piece of code not working as it should. Or a gearbox failure or a loss of water/oil pressure. Cars have always had problems, but just like with Teslas and other similar daft vehicles, there's a difference between not having the latest software update and not changing your oil.

You're assigning them a difference, but essentially they're all reliability issues cause either by human error or operating outside of the normal conditions.

It says a lot when Sebastian Vettel has spent a lot of his time since retirement taking classic cars that he owns or has access to and runs them on sustainable synthetic fuels instead. This is the future. And sooner or later the penny will finally drop that F1 has gone down a route that has only harmed itself.

Seb is taking them out because he enjoys driving them - they're childhood dreams of his to drive Mansell's Red 5 Williams. Same as the stars of the future will want to drive Lewis' Merc or Max's RB. Same with rail enthusiasts, they idolise what was the best when they were a kid.
 

Vinyl_Lap

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I'd suggest going back and rewatching some of the races, the great thing about F1TV is that they're all their in their entirety. Apart from some absolute bangers there is some right snoozefests!
Oh, I have many still preserved. I used to record each race live or as highlights as a child because I couldn't convince my family to let me skip boring weekend family events to watch all the races. Only with snooze fests can you really appreciate the exciting races. If you have NASCAR, where every race seems to have "the big one" and a ten-car pile-up followed by a punch-up in the paddock, then it would soon lose its fun. I'm the sort of F1 fan that will happily watch a 1999 Spanish Grand Prix-style race with two or three overtakes and know that the next thriller could be just around the corner. This instant-gratification malarkey really grates on me. Imagine watching a 0-0 draw in football and going "we need more excitement, blindfold the keeper or add a second ball". Drive to Survive also hasn't helped, implying every moment is action-fueled calamity.

Small constructors that with the exception of Jordan ran round at the back causing havoc or breaking down.
You're confusing cars looking less complicated with actual less complication, the teams at the time were still absolutely pushing the boundaries for the time and I remember in the 90s many "purist" fans who'd been watching from the 70s moaning that the cars were too complicated and relied too much on electronics.
The big teams were MILES in front of the rest of the field - to the point really where below the top 10 the rest of the field didn't really matter. The field spread now is so much better.
You did have pre-qualifying, which meant you had some teams who didn't enter a car in to a race for the majority of the season, it was hard to keep up with who was driving what and who was a good driver in poor machinery versus who was just an average driver in great machinery.
I agree about the purists in the 70s watching the 90s and not enjoying it. Funnily enough, a family friend got me into motor racing. He was Pete Page, and raced 500cc Formula 3 cars in the 40s and 50s with Stirling Moss. He hated the 90s, but still eagerly watched every race, and I remember him really enjoying the '98 battle between Schumacher and Hakkinen.

As for the teams at the back. I had no problem with that. A race of attrition when a Minardi scored a point was like a non-league team beating a Premier League giant in the FA Cup. Smiles all round and a rare feel-good story.
You're assigning them a difference, but essentially they're all reliability issues cause either by human error or operating outside of the normal conditions.
And this I also agree with. But I simply loathe the current set of regulations. Cars "super-clipping" and then FOM changing the graphics so we can't see the exact speeds at the start of the season. I entered the season with an open mind to the new regulations, after entering 2014 with a real premeditated dislike. But it didn't last long. Oscar Piastri's crash on the way to the grid in Australia made me think "hold up", and then Bearman's shunt in Suzuka firmly made me go "nah, rubbish".
 
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Another software / race control issue in Sprint Quali 1:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/articles/ck62y7jz1qqro

The problem involved the settings being different before and after a red flag caused by a crash for Sergio Perez's Cadillac and left drivers complaining of reduced power.

It involved overtake mode - which allows an extra 0.5MJ of energy to be harvested - being switched on and off again in the space of 28 seconds.

The FIA said in a statement: "During the first period of sprint qualifying there was a human error in race control unrelated to the timing issue also encountered in SQ1.

"This issue in question meant overtake mode was not available after the red flag period during SQ1.

"When it became apparent that overtake mode was not active after the restart, it was then activated for a period of 27 seconds before being deactivated again.

"The FIA acknowledges that this unfortunate human error had an impact on the performance of certain cars based on the timing of their run and their position around the lap.

"The second and third periods of sprint qualifying were not affected."

The FIA system automatically disables overtake mode when there is a red flag. A pop-up then appears on the screen asking whether officials want to re-enable it.

This was ignored, then overtake mode was reactivated before being disabled again, on the basis that it was fairer to do so than leave it enabled.

Nooo Michael nooo!

What a mess this sport is in... :rolleyes:
 

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