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Formula 1

Vinyl_Lap

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Yet another reason why I really dislike the Virtual Safety Car, and the essentially, free pit-stop you can steal from it. I know the conventional safety car can create similar situations, but the VSC doesn't seem to neutralise the race as affectively the real thing, and it seems to create a roulette wheel of luck.
 
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DelW

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I know he is an outstanding young driver, but yet again today, things do seem to have developed a habit of dropping into his lap.
Yes, that rather bugs me too. To be fair, Antonelli seems to be a likable guy, and he's undoubtedly a very fast driver as he proved in Italy. But it does seem that his rivals get all the bad luck, from Lando's unfortunately timed VSC, to George's mechanical problems. Winning a world championship (which Antonelli almost certainly will) is supposed to be a challenge, not something that falls into your lap with no set-backs at age 20.
 

GB

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Yes, that rather bugs me too. To be fair, Antonelli seems to be a likable guy, and he's undoubtedly a very fast driver as he proved in Italy. But it does seem that his rivals get all the bad luck, from Lando's unfortunately timed VSC, to George's mechanical problems. Winning a world championship (which Antonelli almost certainly will) is supposed to be a challenge, not something that falls into your lap with no set-backs at age 20.
I'm a McLaren and Norris supporter but Norris has benefited from good luck or from other peoples bad luck in the past. When it comes to safety cars sometimes you gain, sometimes you lose. I also wouldn't say Antonelli has had no set backs. He started near last on the previous race, has had a DNF and a non points position finish. He has consistently been in the top 3 so as far as I can see he deserves the championship without those sorts of comments.
 

Vinyl_Lap

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It very much reminded me of the Valencia Street Circuit, and as GB said above, the first Baku race. Lots of hype, mainly around how chaotic this race was expected to be. Off the top of my head, the 2012 European Grand Prix was somewhat entertaining due to an early safety car, but apart from that, they were very processional. Baku has indeed become more entertaining, but I think that's more due to the first race in 2016 being a bit of an anomaly. Baku has really wide parts leading into very heavy braking zones, like Turns 1, 2 and 3, as well as get-out-of-jail-free run-off areas at those corners. Not to mention the extremely long start/finish straight allows Monza-like slipstreaming.

The Madring, on the other hand, doesn't have any significant straights, wide entry corners, or even any real 90-degree corners like Baku to encourage overtaking. I read somewhere it's like Monaco and Sochi had a child. Hopefully the improvements work, as the track isn't going anywhere soon.
 

Tetchytyke

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Winning a world championship (which Antonelli almost certainly will) is supposed to be a challenge, not something that falls into your lap with no set-backs at age 20.
I'm more in the camp that you make your own luck. He's got lucky several times, even at Monza he got lucky with the red flag and the VSC, but he was also able to convert the opportunities.

I feel a bit sorry for Russell in all of this, he's definitely had more bad luck this year and he probably expected to beat him. But I think in ten years we're going to be seeing Antonelli in the same league as Hamilton or Verstappen.
 

DelW

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I feel a bit sorry for Russell in all of this, he's definitely had more bad luck this year and he probably expected to beat him. But I think in ten years we're going to be seeing Antonelli in the same league as Hamilton or Verstappen.
There are a small number of drivers who dominate F1 for a decade or so. I'd nominate Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton and Verstappen in that category - there were many other top-class drivers over the same period, but IMO they didn't dominate in the same way. Despite my comment above, I agree that Antonelli could well be the next one in that category. I'd just like a closer championship this year, I'm sure Antonelli will win more in years to come. Maybe I was spoilt by the close finish last year :lol:
 

Tetchytyke

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The Madring, on the other hand, doesn't have any significant straights, wide entry corners, or even any real 90-degree corners like Baku to encourage overtaking. I read somewhere it's like Monaco and Sochi had a child. Hopefully the improvements work, as the track isn't going anywhere soon
Overtaking and F1 is always an interesting one.

If qualifying goes according to plan there wouldn't really be any overtaking in a race- the fastest car starts first and drives off into the sunset and the slowest car starts last and gets left behind. For there to be lots of overtaking you're really reliant on cars starting out of position, either a slower car doing a bonzai lap (e.g. Gasly at Monza) or a faster car making a horlicks of qualifying.

There's also the complication that circuits which allow lots of overtaking are also usually the most boring circuits to drive. Baku has several good overtaking spots but it is little more than a succession of 90-degree corners. The Madring is a challenge to the drivers (at least in qualifying) because of all the fast corners and no runoff, but those fast corners make it hard to get close to the car in front to order to pass it. The drivers' favourite circuits, places like Suzuka or Silverstone, are all circuits where it is very difficult to overtake.
 

Vinyl_Lap

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The drivers' favourite circuits, places like Suzuka or Silverstone, are all circuits where it is very difficult to overtake.
But historically, those circuits (Suzuka, Silverstone, Spa and Monza) have all provided sensational races and iconic moments in the sport's history. I think part of the reason so many drivers love those circuits is that they grew up watching the legends they wanted to emulate race there. Senna vs Prost at Suzuka, Mansell Mania at Silverstone and the Tifosi at Monza. I'm not defending those circuits at all; I find Silverstone quite a dull track personally, but on the other hand adore Spa.

Overtaking and F1 is always an interesting one.
I agree on this front. A race where the drivers are struggling and making mistakes for themselves, such as Monaco, is also entertaining. A sort of last man standing affair, which was even more the case in the 80s and 90s when mechanical failures used to take out a quarter or more of the grid. And refuelling used to add an extra layer of intrigue. Is a driver lighter or heavier? Running a three- or a one-stopper? Overtaking has always been a tricky art, and I remember a race at Barcelona in 1999 where there were maybe four overtakes, but there wasn't an immediate call to remove the track from the calendar, probably because everyone remembered the race in 1996 and 1992 very vividly, where the racing was quite exciting.

I reckon the only thing that can save Madring is a very exciting couple of races in the next five years, and this boring inaugural race will be quickly forgotten. I also think there's a strong element of people coming down from the highs of Monza only a week before, where overtaking was aplenty and a driver won from P19! That can't happen every race...
 

Leyland Bus

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This may help...


Spanish Grand Prix chiefs are planning changes in three key areas of the Madring circuit for 2027, The Race can reveal, off the back of its processional Formula 1 debut.

F1 drivers' worst fears were realised on Sunday when it proved ultra-difficult for cars to pass one another at the Madring, triggering a far-from-thrilling spectacle.

Not taking into account the first lap shuffling, there were hardly any overtakes at all.

While there is no official count made by F1 on the number of passes, everything points to it being the worst of the season when it comes to changes of position on track.

There are suggestions the number of passes was below even Monaco, where 10 in-race overtakes were completed.



The most notable ones were limited to Liam Lawson getting past Franco Colapinto and George Russell passing Lawson.

Although some of the stilted action was a consequence of a lack of tyre degradation on the hard compound, which meant there was not much offset strategy and performance from the rubber, the main reason for the lack of excitement was that the is no obvious overtaking spot.

For while the overall Madring layout, which included the banked La Monumental corner, was praised as being super-challenging for qualifying, the lack of passing places had been obvious in the build up to the race.

The most likely location to overtake, which was the Turn 5/6 chicane after the long run down from the opening sequence of corners, ended up being shaped in a way that deterred passing.

This was due to it having a tight entry which, as Haas driver Ollie Bearman said ahead of the weekend, meant that an overtake would never really be on.The Race
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Three changes Madring will make after terrible F1 debut
Three changes Madring will make after terrible F1 debut
Alex Stefan / Spacesuit Media
Jon Noble
14 Sep 2026 — 5 min read
7 comments
Spanish Grand Prix chiefs are planning changes in three key areas of the Madring circuit for 2027, The Race can reveal, off the back of its processional Formula 1 debut.

F1 drivers' worst fears were realised on Sunday when it proved ultra-difficult for cars to pass one another at the Madring, triggering a far-from-thrilling spectacle.

Not taking into account the first lap shuffling, there were hardly any overtakes at all.

While there is no official count made by F1 on the number of passes, everything points to it being the worst of the season when it comes to changes of position on track.

There are suggestions the number of passes was below even Monaco, where 10 in-race overtakes were completed.



The most notable ones were limited to Liam Lawson getting past Franco Colapinto and George Russell passing Lawson.

Although some of the stilted action was a consequence of a lack of tyre degradation on the hard compound, which meant there was not much offset strategy and performance from the rubber, the main reason for the lack of excitement was that the is no obvious overtaking spot.

For while the overall Madring layout, which included the banked La Monumental corner, was praised as being super-challenging for qualifying, the lack of passing places had been obvious in the build up to the race.

The most likely location to overtake, which was the Turn 5/6 chicane after the long run down from the opening sequence of corners, ended up being shaped in a way that deterred passing.

This was due to it having a tight entry which, as Haas driver Ollie Bearman said ahead of the weekend, meant that an overtake would never really be on.



"That kind of curved braking takes away any possibility of different lines and sending one up the inside," he said. "So that's a shame and maybe a bit of an oversight."

It is understood that this design had been settled on because of safety considerations regarding the speed and angle of approach of cars towards the tunnel section here.

The planned changes
Madring officials are not blind to the lack of action in the race, and The Race has learned that changes are planned in three areas for 2027 aimed at improving overtaking.

Discussions are now set to take place between the circuit and the FIA, drivers and teams over the next weeks about nailing the final details of the revisions, but they will be focused on three key areas of the track.The first idea is to widen and alter the approach to the Turn 5/6 chicane, so it will better allow cars to contest positions there.As was proven over the Madrid weekend, the curved entry and layout of the kerbing there meant that there was not enough room for two cars to go cleanly side-by-side there.

That meant it was easy to defend and the only real way to get through was to go super aggressive and risk pushing a rival off.The second area being looked at is the profile of Turn 13, which is the left-hander straight after La Monumental.

This is currently a medium-speed corner, which does not have the level of braking that offers much chance for a car to make a move if they have picked up a tow through the banked corner.This bend can be tightened a lot to allow cars to fight for position here.The third area being looked at is widening the track around Turn 20.This is one of the tightest corners on the track with the barriers currently acting as a narrow pinch point.

The idea here will be to reprofile the entry and barrier alignment to allow cars to make a passing attempt without fear of not making the exit.

Approval complexities
The Race has learned that revisions in these three areas had already been proposed to the FIA ahead of this year's race because of concerns that passing would be too difficult.

However, due to the complexities involved in track simulations and the time it takes to go through homologation processes, it was decided that it would make more sense to wait until 2027 to do this.The timetable to build the track was already quite tight, with work only having started in April 2025, and things had not been helped by a very wet winter in Madrid, which had delayed construction efforts.

It was agreed in the end that it was better to not risk homologation delays potentially hindering construction that would then open the door for much bigger issues if the track was not ready in time.

F1 tracks have to go through detailed approval processes with the FIA in order to be homologated, and Madrid faced extra challenges because those processes also involved local authorities.

Design decisions required dealing with public road changes, rail and aviation stakeholders, emergency officials plus water, draining and other environmental agencies.

The design of the Turn 5/6 chicane was also made more complicated by the tunnel on the exit, which restricts the angle of attack plus the speed at which cars can arrive due to the limited runoff area.

Small changes, significant difference
F1 drivers were in agreement after the race that the Madring circuit needed only one clear and obvious overtaking spot.

Ferrari driver Charles Leclerc reckoned that it would not take a lot of tweaking to make passing possible and therefore change the spectacle dramatically.

"It's a great track and honestly I think everybody did a great job with the track as it is, particularly in qualifying," he said.

"But in the race, there are some corners and it doesn't require a big change, I think just a small change or two small changes could change significantly the racing that we have."

The lessons that many of the drivers have learned in their careers is that a good street track only requires a single good overtaking spot to become a hit.

This is no better proved than at the Macau GP which, while featuring a tight and twisty city section where passing is difficult, has a long straight with a tight-but-wide-entry corner - Lisboa - where cars can pass.

Carlos Sainz, who plans to speak to the FIA about potential revisions to Madring, thought that lessons from Macau and the Azerbaijan GP should be taken on board.

"Good street tracks like Baku, Macau tend to have one single overtaking spot with a very long straight," he said.

"I think we just need to have a look where there's the possibility to add that overtaking spot and see if it's feasible."
 

gswindale

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Monaco 96 always springs to mind when you want an interesting race. I can't remember if there were many overtakes, but only 3 cars finished!

Reliability is the main problem with F1 these days. The cars are generally too reliable to throw a curveball for the drivers. I'm pretty certain there were a few races in the 90s where Schumacher wrestled his Ferrari into positions it shouldn't have been possible to due to gearbox issues or such like.
 

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