TPE pricing oddities from Castleford

[Dewedin]

TPE has now changed the 'Via Leeds' route to 'Via Castleford or Leeds' from Wakefield and Normanton to York.
They have not yet resolved the issue for destinations beyond York.

 

[yorkie]

Purchase flexible walk-up fares for any British train journey

Purchase flexible single/return tickets & Travelcards – in 3 clicks. Full details of all British rail fares shown, with built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

Wakefield to York seems to just be routed via Leeds?
Edit: ignore that

 

[kieron]

If I look at Wakefield-York journeys on nre.co.uk*, it gives some £22.90 anytime day returns which are supposed to have a "via Castleford or Leeds" route code. This seems to have taken someone by surprise, as the web site actually describes it as "Unknown or ambiguous route-code has no description".

* You may need to delete any nationalrail.co.uk cookies you have for this link to open correctly.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Purchase flexible walk-up fares for any British train journey

Purchase flexible single/return tickets & Travelcards – in 3 clicks. Full details of all British rail fares shown, with built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

Wakefield to York seems to just be routed via Leeds?

The link provided in post #62 seems to be for fares available in early 2023. Was that the intention?

 

[Deerfold]

The link provided in post #62 seems to be for fares available in early 2023. Was that the intention?

This appears to be the current version:

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

 

[Kite159]

Having purchased a Wakefield - York day return a couple of weeks ago, I can confirm it does have the routing of "Via Castleford or Leeds" [although some websites didn't like selling it for the TPE services which were diverted via Castleford [without stopping] between York & Leeds]

 

[Dewedin]

Happy to be able to report that TPE has, very belatedly, updated the 'Via Leeds' route restriction to 'Via Castleford or Leeds' for its fares from Wakefield and Normanton to all destinations in the North East of England (plus Reston).
It was ridiculous that itineraries via Castleford and avoiding Leeds were only bookable using the more expensive 'Any Permitted' fares that are priced by LNER and intended to be used for travel via Doncaster.
Ultimately I had to get my MP involved to kickstart TPE into action after first reporting this to them 2 and a half years ago, but at least now it is sorted.

 

[yorkie]

Happy to be able to report that TPE has, very belatedly, updated the 'Via Leeds' route restriction to 'Via Castleford or Leeds' for its fares from Wakefield and Normanton to all destinations in the North East of England (plus Reston).
It was ridiculous that itineraries via Castleford and avoiding Leeds were only bookable using the more expensive 'Any Permitted' fares that are priced by LNER and intended to be used for travel via Doncaster.
Ultimately I had to get my MP involved to kickstart TPE into action after first reporting this to them 2 and a half years ago, but at least now it is sorted.

Good to hear.

This is typical TOC behaviour; they are generally very quick to add negative easements, increase fares, fix anomalies that are too cheap, and - in LNERs case - even accuse customers following itineraries as "fraud", but really drag their feet over fixing anything that results in overcharging.

There are some exceptions, of course, but this is the sort of behaviour that is generally exhibited.

 

[Haywain]

You must be delighted to now have a choice of four differently routed Anytime Day Return tickets from Wakefield to York. Simplification!

 

[Dewedin]

You must be delighted to now have a choice of four differently routed Anytime Day Return tickets from Wakefield to York. Simplification!

We are clearly missing a fifth option 'Via Harrogate'

 

[Watershed]

Fares for journeys such as Huddersfield to Newcastle are still routed via Leeds & York. Now admittedly it's not particularly likely you'd want to change at York when there's usually a direct hourly service, but there is no apparent reason why such restrictive fare routes were introduced in the first place.

 

[Dewedin]

Fares for journeys such as Huddersfield to Newcastle are still routed via Leeds & York. Now admittedly it's not particularly likely you'd want to change at York when there's usually a direct hourly service, but there is no apparent reason why such restrictive fare routes were introduced in the first place.

The 'Via Leeds York' route actually means 'Via Leeds Or York' not 'Via Leeds And York'.

 

[Watershed]

The 'Via Leeds York' route actually means 'Via Leeds Or York' not 'Via Leeds And York'.

Yes, on looking it up the full length description makes that clear. The short description doesn't use the slash symbol customarily used for "or" routes.

 

[Deerfold]

Is there a reasonable way of not going via York?

I can only think of via Carlisle which could be done entirely with Northern.

 

[tomoufc]

Happy to be able to report that TPE has, very belatedly, updated the 'Via Leeds' route restriction to 'Via Castleford or Leeds' for its fares from Wakefield and Normanton to all destinations in the North East of England (plus Reston).
It was ridiculous that itineraries via Castleford and avoiding Leeds were only bookable using the more expensive 'Any Permitted' fares that are priced by LNER and intended to be used for travel via Doncaster.
Ultimately I had to get my MP involved to kickstart TPE into action after first reporting this to them 2 and a half years ago, but at least now it is sorted.

Well done!

 

[kieron]

Happy to be able to report that TPE has, very belatedly, updated the 'Via Leeds' route restriction to 'Via Castleford or Leeds' for its fares from Wakefield and Normanton to all destinations in the North East of England (plus Reston).

Well done! I'm think that, if the wish was to charge more to people who travel via Doncaster, they could have used a "not via Doncaster" route and let people travel via Pontefract Baghill for less.

And, while they've changed that flow, other flows such as Darton–Newcastle and Wakefield–Newcastle Airport retain the choice between "via Leeds" and "any permitted" tickets.

Is there a reasonable way of not going via York?

I can only think of via Carlisle which could be done entirely with Northern.

The route via Carlisle isn't permitted for Huddersfield–Newcastle tickets, but is for Huddersfield–Hexham ones (albeit only advance tickets because of the route code). Travel via York is usually much faster, though.

 

[Barnsley]

From Barnsley we still only have 'via Leeds' set by TPE (not valid changing at Kirkgate onto a 6 minute connection) or the more expensive 'any permitted' set by Northern and valid via Meadowhall/Doncaster

 

[redreni]

You must be delighted to now have a choice of four differently routed Anytime Day Return tickets from Wakefield to York. Simplification!

Does it matter, though?

If your typical passenger - including approximately 100% of those who want things to be simpler - just searches for a journey, buys a ticket with an itinerary and then sticks to it, they're going to be quite unaware of and untroubled by the number of differently routed fares that exist between their origin and destination. They'll just be sold the cheapest option for the journey they've chosen.

 

[Haywain]

Does it matter, though?

Yes, because if you want to know how much it costs to get from A to B, four different routes with four sets of time restrictions makes it horribly complicated for the "typical passenger". That you can buy a ticket with an itinerary doesn't change this at the point of wondering how much it might cost.

 

[redreni]

Yes, because if you want to know how much it costs to get from A to B, four different routes with four sets of time restrictions makes it horribly complicated for the "typical passenger". That you can buy a ticket with an itinerary doesn't change this at the point of wondering how much it might cost.

If uncertainty as to cost is a problem, Advances must be a truly awful idea?

 

[Haywain]

If uncertainty as to cost is a problem, Advances must be a truly awful idea?

No, because "it depends on how early you book" is a much easier concept to deal with.

 

[redreni]

No, because "it depends on how early you book" is a much easier concept to deal with.

I might agree if it depended only on how early you book and not on factors unknown by the passenger, such as how many other people are making bookings or the whim of the fare setter when it comes to quotas.

If you wait, fares can sometimes go down rather than up.

 

[Deerfold]

If uncertainty as to cost is a problem, Advances must be a truly awful idea?

If you know exactly when you're travelling, advances are fine.
If you want a return with some flexibility having to choose between 4 fares with different restrictions is a pain.

 

[redreni]

If you know exactly when you're travelling, advances are fine.
If you want a return with some flexibility having to choose between 4 fares with different restrictions is a pain.

Yeah single leg pricing would reduce complexity, here. Prior to the November 2025 NRCoT changes it was arguably fine, as you could buy the appropriate route restricted ticket for your outbound journey and then return by any route, on the basis you may be asked to pay a small excess.

Now it's a bit of a pain because you are subject to a penalty fare or worse if you don't stick to the route restrictions on the return leg, unless you buy an excess before you start your return journey. Fine if there's an open ticket office with knowledgeable staff, but in practice a real pain. Single leg pricing would fix it.

This is only a problem if you want flexibility, though, in which case Advances are a disaster too. In fact Advances are worse because the fares are much more unpredictable.