Caledonian Sleeper

[D6130]

92 020 is currently heading very slowly - Max speed 10 mph and 5 mph through switches and crossings - from Wembley depot to Eastleigh Works on a wheel skate, topped and tailed by 66 687 and 66 719. Apparently the 92 has a seized axle. They spent the night at Woking and set off again early this morning (0Z92). Does anyone know if this is one of the locos that failed on the Sleeper earlier this week?

 

[cats_five]

92 020 is currently heading very slowly - Max speed 10 mph and 5 mph through switches and crossings - from Wembley depot to Eastleigh Works on a wheel skate, topped and tailed by 66 687 and 66 719. Apparently the 92 has a seized axle. They spent the night at Woking and set off again early this morning (0Z92). Does anyone know if this is one of the locos that failed on the Sleeper earlier this week?

Not two wheel skates for a seized axle?

 

[norbitonflyer]

92 020 is currently heading very slowly - Max speed 10 mph and 5 mph through switches and crossings - from Wembley depot to Eastleigh Works on a wheel skate, topped and tailed by 66 687 and 66 719. Apparently the 92 has a seized axle. They spent the night at Woking and set off again early this morning (0Z92). Does anyone know if this is one of the locos that failed on the Sleeper earlier this week?

Just been through RTT and doesn't appear that 92020 has been used, at least not at the London end, all week. (Checked all arrivals, departures and ECS workings)

 

[Dryce]

I do wonder why there is such a vocal minority on the forum that love to hate the CS? I think the service is fantastic and great value personally.

I thnk opinions may vary.

I think the Caledonian Sleeper has become a strange bespoke service. It is expensive. It charges premium costs but is actually very utilitarian andf that is despite a subsidy. It suffers from the restriction of the UK railway system in terms of how it is configured. It seems to suffer the same unreliabilty when it comes to catering as the rest of the UK services.

Where does it run? Major capitals or resorts.No. Basically the only palce that it actually serves where you can't get a low cost airline is Fort WIlliam.

Ahhh but the romance.

Well a Club or classic cabin gets you no great seating space, view or window. If you are getting on a bit or unfit the top bunk is quite difficult to access. Two people in a classic cabin without access to the lounge ? It's a dormitory - no romance. One person in cabin is not so bad but two is a tight fit.

So we hear about the delays. But what about the other niggles. You're a club passenger and turn up at Euston after receiveing text mesages inviting you to the lounge ..... except they won't let you past the platform barriers. Or you turn up in ypur cabin and the breakfast menus has the two top items crossed out? Or you get a SMS at around 0500 to tell you the lounge car is closed for breakfast.

To be fair when I have travelled the cabin has been very clean. Some people dismiss the shower in a club cabin - but I think it's OK. The staff are really good.

But at the end of the day its an expensive and ragged service which is utilitarian at a premium cost and still needs a subsidy.

 

[Bald Rick]

But at the end of the day its an expensive and ragged service which is utilitarian at a premium cost and still needs a subsidy.

and still sells out much of the time.

 

[NCT]

and still sells out much of the time.

Do you know how much weekly and seasonal variation there is (in very generalised terms)? Thanks.

 

[Bald Rick]

Do you know how much weekly and seasonal variation there is (in very generalised terms)? Thanks.

Very broadly, demand is lower in winter, especially to the Highlands.

Thursdays / Fridays usually sell out northbound, and Sundays Southbound.

But it can vary. For example northbound on the Aberdeen portion, there are a grand total of 8 rooms left available for the rest of this month, and around 75% sold for October already.

The prices seem expensive, but a high proportion of those travelling are two travelling together, where the price is effectively halved. And for those travelling alone, most railcards that can be used when travellign alone are accepted for the rooms and seats.

 

[Falcon1200]

Where does it run? Major capitals or resorts.No

London, Edinburgh, both capitals. Glasgow, biggest city in Scotland and one of the whole UK's largest. Perth, gateway to the Highlands, Inverness, gateway to the Far North and North West. Aberdeen, oil capital of the UK.

 

[Swedenorer]

and still sells out much of the time.

Well there is as they say one born every minute.

I was a supporter of this business until I realised that it isn't a business - not really - it's more a sort of worsening shambles. After a ride that can only be described as shocking staff didn't even bother to announce after a near hour delay (I know we'd got there and really quite close to time) that we'd arrived at Aviemore if I hadn't recognised the place I'd never have known where we were. If you can't do little touches like that then there is something wrong.That followed an experience of Euston that can only be described as abysmal - nothing unusual there though.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Well there is as they say one born every minute.

staff didn't even bother to announce after a near hour delay (I know we'd got there and really quite close to time) that we'd arrived at Aviemore

They don't do announcements over the loudspeakers en route as it wuold wake everyone up. If you are alighting at an intermediate station you will be woken by a knock on the door about 30 minutes before (or earlier if you have asked for an earlier breakfast)

 

[najaB]

They don't do announcements over the loudspeakers en route as it wuold wake everyone up. If you are alighting at an intermediate station you will be woken by a knock on the door about 30 minutes before (or earlier if you have asked for an earlier breakfast)

I've not travelled on the Sleeper in a while (back in Mk 3 days) but I'd be very surprised if they've stopped doing this on a regular basis. Unless confirmed by someone else, I'll assume that @Swedenorer either didn't hear the wake-up knock or it was a one-off omission as the knock was usually also accompanied by a cup of tea and a small breakfast snack.

 

[Swedenorer]

They don't do announcements over the loudspeakers en route as it wuold wake everyone up. If you are alighting at an intermediate station you will be woken by a knock on the door about 30 minutes before (or earlier if you have asked for an earlier breakfast)

That never arrived! Neither ever arrived actually.

 

[marshlinker]

Where does it run? Major capitals or resorts.No. Basically the only palce that it actually serves where you can't get a low cost airline is Fort WIlliam.

Fort William is nowadays under 3 hours from Glasgow Airport by comfortable electric coach with a reasonable frquency. Its only really remote these days by rail.
On the first flight from Heathrow youd comfortably be in the Fort for lunch. Gatwick a late lunch.

 

[Tetragon213]

Fort William is nowadays under 3 hours from Glasgow Airport by comfortable electric coach with a reasonable frquency. Its only really remote these days by rail.
On the first flight from Heathrow youd comfortably be in the Fort for lunch. Gatwick a late lunch.

Shockingly, it's quicker and significantly so to use the coach, than it is to go by rail.

Assuming you are able to teleport to Glasgow Queen Street from the airport, and you teleport at just the right time to catch the extremely limited Fort Bill service, it will take you about 3&3/4 hrs from Glasgow to Fort Bill, while the coach takes a straight 3 hours. Cheaper as well.

I have no clue how it is that a freaking bus is faster than the train by about 45 mins, but here we are.

I do wonder why there is such a vocal minority on the forum that love to hate the CS? I think the service is fantastic and great value personally. For me it is time efficiency of the service, the reliability (I have been delayed many, many more times on flights than on the CS), the fact it takes me as good as door to door and is cheaper than BA Business Class with less hassle if you factor in airport travel. I can absolutely see why it doesn't work for many - but then why take such an interest in the thread?

I think part of it is due to the high unreliability, and the high prices that are also coupled with the CS taking quite a hefty subsidy from Holyrood for a (perceived) low benefit. Also, having travelled on it in the past, it was definitely not one of the best nights of sleep I've had; the Mk5s really bounce quite violently.

When the CS makes you late into the office for an important meeting, and causes you to be on the receiving end of a "meeting, no tea no biscuits" with the boss even though you paid £290 for the convenience of getting in on time, you tend to develop a rather sour impression of the whole thing. Heck, I've used it (and my parents have done it twice before I was born), and all 3 times we were quite late indeed. We're 3 for 3 on being severely delayed so far.

 

[JonathanH]

Shockingly, it's quicker and significantly so to use the coach, than it is to go by rail.

Why is that shocking? The road is a shorter distance and isn't as restricted to the route it has to take. Try getting a coach to Corrour quicker than the train.

 

[Tetragon213]

Why is that shocking? The road is a shorter distance and isn't as restricted to the route it has to take.

I'd have expected the higher line speed of a train would more than compensate for the bus' shorter route, when you account for the bus' ability to get caught in traffic, need to make additional stops, and trundle through towns and villages at 20mph.

I'm hoping that the scenery out of the train will be significantly better than that of the coach. Cally's Club Car does offer good views during the morning in the Highlands

 

[tram21]

I'm hoping that the scenery out of the train will be significantly better than that of the coac

As much as I love train travel, last month I directly compared the journey to Fort William by train (Caledonian Sleeper sat in the club car) and by Ember coach, and found the coach significantly more scenic, especially through Glencoe.

 

[ajrm]

I've not travelled on the Sleeper in a while (back in Mk 3 days) but I'd be very surprised if they've stopped doing this on a regular basis. Unless confirmed by someone else, I'll assume that @Swedenorer either didn't hear the wake-up knock or it was a one-off omission as the knock was usually also accompanied by a cup of tea and a small breakfast snack.

Two recent journeys in a row my wake-up call failed to appear. I'm pro-sleeper but that's a major issue.

 

[StephenHunter]

As much as I love train travel, last month I directly compared the journey to Fort William by train (Caledonian Sleeper sat in the club car) and by Ember coach, and found the coach significantly more scenic, especially through Glencoe.

You aren't stuck in a cramped seat on the train.

 

[3RDGEN]

I'd have expected the higher line speed of a train would more than compensate for the bus' shorter route, when you account for the bus' ability to get caught in traffic, need to make additional stops, and trundle through towns and villages at 20mph.

I'm hoping that the scenery out of the train will be significantly better than that of the coach. Cally's Club Car does offer good views during the morning in the Highlands

The trains generally get caught in "traffic" from Glasgow - Helensburgh due to the intensive surburban stopping services, there's the slow speeds in the loops and waiting time to pass other trains. In the case of the ScotRail services the split/joining at Crainlarich also adds to the journey times, the Sleeper also has lower speed limits in certain places due to weight restrictions I believe.

Re scenery there's not much in it since the WHL is a tunnel of trees for much of the route, apart from Rannoch Moor. So the coach is quicker, cheaper, more comfortable, far more frequent and similar for scenery. Pays your money, takes your choice.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 11:27 ==

You aren't stuck in a cramped seat on the train.

No, but the coach seats are far better than the Sleeper/156 seats. The 156 seats now also have high backs so ruin the open plan view of the original seats.

 

[HighlandStorm]

You aren't stuck in a cramped seat on the train.

On Ember or the seated sleeper you are guaranteed a seat though. I’ve been on 156’s where there’s been so many people standing no one could get near the toilet - assuming there wasn’t 5+ people standing in there too!

That said if people want to travel to Ft Wm for the scenery, it’s actually a very good option to do one way by the WHL and the other by coach and with it currently only £4 from Fort William to Glasgow, you don’t need to worry about the cost of singles vs returns.

I’d recommend Ember over Citylink at present though.

If it’s a time of year where daylight allows I’d use the seated sleeper. The seats may not be great for an overnight journey*, but for the WHL, hot food, real coffee and actually cold beer are nice accompaniments to the scenery!

* - I did think the mark 2 seaters were more comfortable, but conversely the couple of occasions I’ve done the seats all the way on the Mark 5s I’ve slept better and I’m not a good sleeper sitting upright usually. If I was I’d use the sleeper a lot more as it’s frequently by far the best value way from the North of Scotland to London.

 

[35B]

I'd have expected the higher line speed of a train would more than compensate for the bus' shorter route, when you account for the bus' ability to get caught in traffic, need to make additional stops, and trundle through towns and villages at 20mph.

I'm hoping that the scenery out of the train will be significantly better than that of the coach. Cally's Club Car does offer good views during the morning in the Highlands

Have you actually travelled to Fort William? The line speed, especially for loco hauled trains, is no higher than the road speed while the extra distance is significant. Just look at a map and see how much further the train goes from Crianlarich to Bridge of Orchy, or Bridge of Orchy to Fort William.

Add in that Glasgow Airport is already a way towards Fort William on the main road, and it's no surprise at all.

As for the better scenery, there's not a lot in it. I prefer the run across Rannoch Moor and down Loch Treig, but the road down Glencoe and up Loch Linnhe is right up there.

 

[najaB]

Two recent journeys in a row my wake-up call failed to appear. I'm pro-sleeper but that's a major issue.

That's disappointing. And potentially a huge cost to the railway, not to mention a hassle to the customer who ends up waking up miles away from where they wanted to be!

 

[Bald Rick]

I have no clue how it is that a freaking bus is faster than the train by about 45 mins, but here we are.

I’m guessing that you have neither taken the train from Glasgow to Fort Willam, nor driven the A82 either.

It is 112 miles from Queen St to Fort William, the linespeed is not often above 50mph, and often much lower, with 14 intermediate station calls, some of which need long dwells for splitting and joining (Crianlarich) and/or for trains passing heading the other way.

Meanwhile it is 99 miles from Glasgow Airport to Fort William on the A82, almost a fifth of which is on motorway or dual carriageway. The Ember bus has more stops (around 20, 5 in Fort William itself), but will actually stop at few of them en route. Aside from the notorious 8 mile stretch north of Tarbet, it is mostly a good road, where all traffic will flow at c56mph north of Balloch, and up to 70mph south of there on the dual carriageway. There is some congestion approaching Balloch southbound on Sunday afternoons, and of course there’s always roadworks somewhere. But it has never taken me less than 2h15 to drive it, usually sub 2 hours.

 

[GordonT]

As much as I love train travel, last month I directly compared the journey to Fort William by train (Caledonian Sleeper sat in the club car) and by Ember coach, and found the coach significantly more scenic, especially through Glencoe.

Does anyone know if the £2 bus/coach single Fare Cap in West of Scotland introduced by the SNP government on 7th September 2026 has been adopted by Citylink and/or Ember on the Glasgow-Oban and Glasgow-Fort William/Skye services? I had a quick look on the internet but couldn't find a definitive answer. Over 60s resident in Scotland travel free on most bus and coach services north of the border.

 

[najaB]

Does anyone know if the £2 bus/coach single Fare Cap introduced by the SNP government in West of Scotland on 7th September 2026 has been adopted by Citylink and/or Ember on the Glasgow-Oban and Glasgow-Fort William/Skye services?

I don't believe it has yet. There was a story on the BBC website a few days back where an Ember representative was bemoaning that it hadn't been thought through completely and so they were asking for a review before implementation.

Edit: Here's the story - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce9e2zyzx3lo

Electric bus company Ember says the Scottish government's £2 cap on bus fares is a "good slogan" but it has raised concerns about the way the scheme is funded.

The cap is running as a pilot in six local authority areas and First Minister John Swinney announced it is to be extended to cover journeys in the west of Scotland from Monday.

Ember, which operates intercity routes across Scotland, said it was "strongly supportive" of the new scheme's goals but warned the "system needs to be built carefully".

Transport Scotland said the cap would support households facing cost-of-living challenges, and bus firms could choose whether or not to take part in the scheme.

Ember said how the cap worked for intercity operators was not "super simple".

It said if a journey was entirely within an area where the cap applied, such as its Glasgow to Cumbernauld route, the whole fare was capped at £2.

But a trip which begins or ends outside the scheme, such as Glasgow to Dundee, would see passengers only "partially" benefiting.

 

[Amaranthe]

Does anyone know if the £2 bus/coach single Fare Cap in West of Scotland introduced by the SNP government on 7th September 2026 has been adopted by Citylink and/or Ember on the Glasgow-Oban and Glasgow-Fort William/Skye services? I had a quick look on the internet but couldn't find a definitive answer. Over 60s resident in Scotland travel free on most bus and coach services north of the border.

Singles between the points listed are actually £4. This comprises £2 for the West of Scotland cap and £2 for the Highland Region fare cap trial as they are currently essentially separate caps.

EDIT: It's discussed in detail here...

£2 fare cap comes to Scotland:

Not sure what to make of this? You can tell the Scottish elections are next May, and the pilot scheme is the area with the fewest people. By June, I bet it's forgotten all about...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[GordonT]

Singles between the points listed are actually £4. This comprises £2 for the West of Scotland cap and £2 for the Highland Region fare cap trial as they are currently essentially separate caps.

EDIT: It's discussed in detail here...

£2 fare cap comes to Scotland:

Not sure what to make of this? You can tell the Scottish elections are next May, and the pilot scheme is the area with the fewest people. By June, I bet it's forgotten all about...

www.railforums.co.uk

Thank you.

 

[marshlinker]

Why is that shocking? The road is a shorter distance and isn't as restricted to the route it has to take. Try getting a coach to Corrour quicker than the train.

For Corrour Id recommend early morning flight to Edinburgh, Ember bus at 10.45 to Bridge of Orchy. Lunch at the hotel or budget option picnic bench next to fabulous bridge. 200 metre walk up hill, 14.49 train to Corrour.

 

[Sealink]

I am sure the Sleeper doesn't make money, but it must be haemorraging delay replay refunds at this rate!