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Class 175s to GWR

BillStampy

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GWR are being logical with their choice this evening to take 175006 off 2C32's diagram to avoid cancellation as we approach the late evening - it's now doing 2C33 PLY - LSK then 2P22 LSK - PLY before going back to depot.
 
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John R

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Agreed. But we are a quarter of a century on from when 175s were new. Much has changed in that time, especially where driving and its management is concerned.
True, but you're assertion is that it was management to deem whether it was acceptable. Given that it had been up until that point, it is not unreasonable for them to take the view that it still is, unless told otherwise by the Union which, don't forget, fulfils a key role in determining whether the driving cab would be acceptable, and indeed did ask for modifications with regard to seats which was carried out.
 

Harpo

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True, but you're assertion is that it was management to deem whether it was acceptable.
Absolutely. GWR is the duty holder.
Given that it had been up until that point, it is not unreasonable for them to take the view that it still is, unless told otherwise by the Union
which, don't forget, fulfils a key role in determining whether the driving cab would be acceptable, and indeed did ask for modifications with regard to seats which was carried out.
However it’s phrased, compliance is a GWR responsibility, and union reps (where it applies) confirm acceptance of the workplace. That doesn’t preclude further discussion if issues arise.
 

irish_rail

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Yes, this is the answer and will ge what is happening very shortly!

Again, not to play devil's advocate but the 220/221s that *Some* of the drivers also drive do not have light up sunflowers. Yes, they dont drive them long distances on the mainline but they do drive the traction without light up sunflowers....
Indeed and I am one who does sign cl220 and 221s. The difference is there isn't AWS on depot (other than the test magnet coming off the depot limits), so it isn't a fair comparison.
One only needs to look at the long (in terms of time) signal section between Saltash and St Budeaux, where the driver will be doing 15mph for a long while routinely. This is one example where the sunflower comes in handy. The signal at St Budeaux has been SPAD'D previously by drivers who have forgotten their previous signal was yellow.
 

XFeed

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They were never visible in darkness when they were at TfW. Putting them in a more sensible position facing the driver won't fix that. It was accepted at TfW but the issue wasn't unique to that part of the fleet there.

This is not a criticism of either TOC or ASLEF - but it is good to see that ASLEF are insisting their members at GWR don't take a step backwards in terms of cab conditions.

Always good to hear an experienced drivers recollections of a class that they were once very familiar with but at a different operator, thanks.

I have Tech riden, is riden even a word ? numerous 175`s within the cab when dark and never noticed the issue with the sunflower and also the many different drivers never remarked about it either so it came as a complete surprise to me that there is/was an issue.

So going from one extreme to another when they solve the sunflower issue during darkness and drivers are then happy to operate them when dark we then come to the bright door interlock lights in the cab which we did have a number of complainants about and we then carried out a lens modification programme but can`t remember if we completed the fleet due to supply issues ?
 

Jrocks

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Indeed and I am one who does sign cl220 and 221s. The difference is there isn't AWS on depot (other than the test magnet coming off the depot limits), so it isn't a fair comparison.
One only needs to look at the long (in terms of time) signal section between Saltash and St Budeaux, where the driver will be doing 15mph for a long while routinely. This is one example where the sunflower comes in handy. The signal at St Budeaux has been SPAD'D previously by drivers who have forgotten their previous signal was yellow.

Fair point that, suppose driving around a very well lit depot is slightly different to the mainline at high speeds!

Do the 57s have light up 'sunflowers'? They are pretty much only driven in the dark so one would like to hope they do.
 

irish_rail

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Fair point that, suppose driving around a very well lit depot is slightly different to the mainline at high speeds!

Do the 57s have light up 'sunflowers'? They are pretty much only driven in the dark so one would like to hope they do.
I should know the answer to that but admittedly I can't recall! My gut is they do, as I do think all GWR traction has luminous sunflowers nowadays, hence the union concerns. I'll confirm next time I get on a 57!
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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When are GWR going to concede defeat woth the 175's. They're clapped out rotting old bangers like all UK Coradia 1000's
I'm not quite sure what the drivers are doing to them, but they're certainly dropping dead like flies at GWR :lol: It's a great shame as I think they're a fantastic train. As soon as the 197s came in TfW really threw in the towel though.
 

43102EMR

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When are GWR going to concede defeat woth the 175's. They're clapped out rotting old bangers like all UK Coradia 1000's
The problem is CAF/TfW completely screwed up their maintenance in their later years and were sent off lease almost immediately after that. Combine that with their cold storage for almost 2 years and it’s no surprise GWR are experiencing so many difficulties with the fleet, which otherwise ended up fairly reliable during their time in Wales. The fault-free running exercise really should have started before they were introduced by GWR!
 

REVUpminster

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Presumably a magical incantation along the lines of abra cadabra heed my call, summon enough DMUs for all!?
769s are still in store that could go to Reading to let turbos come west. I don't know where they are stored.

GWR have complained about the storage at Ely, which climate wise is pretty benign. GWR replaced that with storage at Laira and sea air, some units for over 18 months. They have D stock and one 230. Perhaps after December GWR will be in the scrap metal business.
 

Towers

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769s are still in store that could go to Reading to let turbos come west. I don't know where they are stored.

GWR have complained about the storage at Ely, which climate wise is pretty benign. GWR replaced that with storage at Laira and sea air, some units for over 18 months. They have D stock and one 230. Perhaps after December GWR will be in the scrap metal business.
The 769s are all sat in Long Marston, aren’t they? Given the overall reliability of them, not only during their brief foray with GWR but also at Northern and TfW, it would hardly seem a sound idea to dump anything else in favour of them I would have thought?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

The problem is CAF/TfW completely screwed up their maintenance in their later years and were sent off lease almost immediately after that. Combine that with their cold storage for almost 2 years and it’s no surprise GWR are experiencing so many difficulties with the fleet, which otherwise ended up fairly reliable during their time in Wales. The fault-free running exercise really should have started before they were introduced by GWR!
Which begs the question, do we have an issue in the UK with manufacturers of new fleets maintaining (or not) legacy rolling stock as part of the procurement contracts of new trains? There seem to have been accusations of sub-par efforts on the part of several manufacturers on this front in recent years? Maybe one for a new thread…
 

John R

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Which begs the question, do we have an issue in the UK with manufacturers of new fleets maintaining (or not) legacy rolling stock as part of the procurement contracts of new trains? There seem to have been accusations of sub-par efforts on the part of several manufacturers on this front in recent years? Maybe one for a new thread…
It does seem a common problem, yes. Although in one current topical case, it doesn't seem to be any better for the new fleet being introduced...
 

RPI

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Knowing the railway, they'll spend months getting the 175's right and just as they achieve it..... They'll withdraw them
 

John R

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Knowing the railway, they'll spend months getting the 175's right and just as they achieve it..... They'll withdraw them
If that started, "Knowing DfT..." then I would agree.
 

Duncan-231192

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I'm not quite sure what the drivers are doing to them, but they're certainly dropping dead like flies at GWR :lol: It's a great shame as I think they're a fantastic train. As soon as the 197s came in TfW really threw in the towel though.
Internally, they are fantastic, i'll give you that, but mechanically they've always been absolute dogs. It's not the drivers it's those transmissions and cooler groups. The Welsh Marches have some climbs, but nothing like Devon and Cornwall, and with the Class 175's abysmal tractive effort, drivers will be having to rip their gut out on those all stations services to fight half of those climbs from standing starts. The Class 175 is as fragile as spun glass and needs long-distance cruising on dead level track preferable with a cold northerly blowing. It's a real shame that Transpennine didn't take up the option for extra-trains in their Nova 1 order to allow Class 185 replacements. The 185 might be a heavy beast, but it's a powerful, high acceleration, mechanically practucally indestructible, natural born hill climber. It would have been ideal used in pairs or reformed into a smaller number of 4 car units. They were originally to be 4 car units, hence why the carriage numbers end in 1, 2, and 4, missing a Motor Standard. They're also, I think the only train with doors a low dwell time ⅓/⅔ that have an intercity layout.
 

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