Ely West Curve

[Jimcam]

Am I correct in thinking that the only passenger service to use Ely West Curve is the 1556 Sundays only Norwich to Manchester Piccadilly?

 

[dk1]

Am I correct in thinking that the only passenger service to use Ely West Curve is the 1556 Sundays only Norwich to Manchester Piccadilly?

Yes, that’s the only regular booked passenger service.

 

[Jimcam]

Thanks. Do you know why it does that, rather than make the stop at Ely like all other trains on that route?

 

[Watershed]

It'll be to maintain route knowledge for the EMR crews. That said I'm struggling slightly to see how one instance a week is enough, even if it's only Norwich crews that sign it.

It's used during disruption to make up time by skipping the Ely reversal.

 

[dk1]

Thanks. Do you know why it does that, rather than make the stop at Ely like all other trains on that route?

I think it’s just route retention for the crews. It’s been only that train for around 20 years now. Others do occasionally traverse the curve if there is say a problem with equipment in the rear cab.

 

[LowLevel]

It'll be to maintain route knowledge for the EMR crews. That said I'm struggling slightly to see how one instance a week is enough, even if it's only Norwich crews that sign it.

It's used during disruption to make up time by skipping the Ely reversal.

It was Nottingham crews for at least 20 years, then changed to Norwich in May, prompting the usual panic to make sure they were all current on it.

In practice it's usually just refreshed on route refresh days by watching a short video. Nothing really to it!

Most crew at both depots sign it.

 

[172007]

It'll be to maintain route knowledge for the EMR crews. That said I'm struggling slightly to see how one instance a week is enough, even if it's only Norwich crews that sign it.

It's used during disruption to make up time by skipping the Ely reversal.

Route refresh can be done using route learning films etc.

It can be that if a depot does not have any booked work over a route the depot ceases to sign that route or part of that route so 1 train a week is there to keep the Ely West Cirve on the depot route card.

 

[jfollows]

I did it a year ago along with @yorkie and @yorksrob in an HST, but it was a long time since I first used it when it was more regularly used in the 1970s.

 

[NSE]

It'll be to maintain route knowledge for the EMR crews. That said I'm struggling slightly to see how one instance a week is enough, even if it's only Norwich crews that sign it.

It's used during disruption to make up time by skipping the Ely reversal.

It also means a train traverses it each week so they can check the route is good to use. It allows a crew to see if there’s any over growing foliage, dodgy rails etc. so if there’s a closure and they suddenly need to send multiple trains down there a day, they know the route is ready for it.

 

[dk1]

It also means a train traverses it each week so they can check the route is good to use. It allows a crew to see if there’s any over growing foliage, dodgy rails etc. so if there’s a closure and they suddenly need to send multiple trains down there a day, they know the route is ready for it.

Several freight trains use it every day.

 

[Peterthegreat]

I suspect it is also a "closure protector".
If the service were to be withdrawn they would have to go through the rather laborious and expensive closure procedure.

 

[dk1]

I suspect it is also a "closure protector".
If the service were to be withdrawn they would have to go through the rather laborious and expensive closure procedure.

It wouldn’t close. It’s used by many freight trains every day.

 

[Peterthegreat]

It wouldn’t close. It’s used by many freight trains every day.

But it would for passenger services. That's what causes issues.

 

[dk1]

But it would for passenger services. That's what causes issues.

Other passenger services use it in times of disruption. If any drivers refuse to take it they can simply change ends behind CA303 then proceed towards March.

 

[William3000]

It wouldn’t close. It’s used by many freight trains every day.

I’m aware of the ones from Middleton Towers but not aware of much else freight wise on the Breckland and Fen lines north of Ely North junction. What other freight trains use the west curve?

 

[GB]

I’m aware of the ones from Middleton Towers but not aware of much else freight wise on the Breckland and Fen lines north of Ely North junction. What other freight trains use the west curve?

I'm not sure how often they run but you have stuff to/from Eccles Road and to/from Trowse. Some traffic also to Lowestoft/Great Yarmouth and the odd Whitemoor turning move.

 

[dk1]

I’m aware of the ones from Middleton Towers but not aware of much else freight wise on the Breckland and Fen lines north of Ely North junction. What other freight trains use the west curve?

Yes as mentioned Norwich Yard & Norwich Trowse can produce daily stone trains each along with Brandon which is also busy these days. They’ve been joined by Eccles Road & Lowestoft and now even Yarmouths Vauxhall sidings. Not sure if it’s still the case but there was some additional traffic operating from Middleton Towers.

Until around 10-15 years ago when bi directional traffic was permitted on the curve, anything from the Peterborough direction had to run-round at Ely. That restriction was imposed in 1992.

 

[ac6000cw]

Not sure if it’s still the case but there was some additional traffic operating from Middleton Towers.

They don't/can't use the West Curve (they run around at Ely), but there have been some Middleton Towers to Brandon workings running for a while, usually operated by a DCR class 60.

 

[zwk500]

But it would for passenger services. That's what causes issues.

Which obligations, regulations or legislation would be being breached by diverting the existing service to Ely and maintaining the existing line at passenger standard?

 

[Magdalia]

Until around 10-15 years ago when bi directional traffic was permitted on the curve, anything from the Peterborough direction had to run-round at Ely. That restriction was imposed in 1992.

The ban on eastbound services using the curve was imposed following the Newton collision in 1991.

Accident at Newton (Lanark) on 21st July 1991 :: The Railways Archive

Archive of UK railways documents

www.railwaysarchive.co.uk

Accident at Newton (Lanark) on 21st July 1991​

They don't/can't use the West Curve (they run around at Ely), but there have been some Middleton Towers to Brandon workings running for a while, usually operated by a DCR class 60.

But that ban was lifted a while ago now. For example, this morning 4H83 March Up Yard to Middleton Towers ran via the curve:

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:H49558/2026-09-01/detailed#allox_id=0

4H83 0338 March Up Yard Gbrf to Middleton Towers Gbrf

 

[Peterthegreat]

Which obligations, regulations or legislation would be being breached by diverting the existing service to Ely and maintaining the existing line at passenger standard?

Railways Act 2005.

 

[ac6000cw]

But that ban was lifted a while ago now. For example, this morning 4H83 March Up Yard to Middleton Towers ran via the curve:

The Middleton Towers to/from Brandon workings don't use the curve because they are not travelling to/from the March line, not because there's a ban on using it - below, from top to bottom on the right are the March, Kings Lynn (Middleton Towers) and Norwich (Brandon) lines. The other Middleton Towers freight workings do use it because they are travelling to/from the March line.

 

[Taunton]

Which obligations, regulations or legislation would be being breached by diverting the existing service to Ely and maintaining the existing line at passenger standard?

Why is it that this line has to have a scheduled train which provides no additional service (in fact it reduces it by cutting out a useful and well used interchange station), but not, for example, if there is no service over a fast-to-slow crossover. What is the (legal) difference?

 

[Magdalia]

The Middleton Towers to/from Brandon workings don't use the curve because they are not travelling to/from the March line, not because there's a ban on using it

But it has never been possible to use the curve to get between the Kings Lynn and Norwich lines without reversing at Ely.

 

[zwk500]

Railways Act 2005.

Under the Railways Act 2005, it would seem to fit within the definition of 'minor modifications' and is therefore excluded from the requirements of the act.

Section 22(1)(c), 23(1)(c), 24(1)(c), 26(1)(e), 27(1)(e), 28(1)(d) all exclude minor modifications from the requirements of the closure process (S.22-24 for services, S.26-28 for passenger network. S29 & 30 cover stations and also have the same exclusion but that's not relevant here).

Section 35 defines Minor Modifications:

35Closures eligible to be treated as minor modifications​

(1)The discontinuance of a railway passenger service is eligible to be treated as a minor modification so far as the service is a service on a stretch of line along which there is no station (or no station in use) and the circumstances are such that—

(a)trains that would otherwise use that stretch of line in travelling between two stations will instead pass along an alternative route; and

(b)passengers travelling on such a train will not be required to make additional changes and will not incur significant increases of journey times.

Railways Act 2005

An Act to amend the law relating to the provision and regulation of railway services; and for connected purposes.

www.legislation.gov.uk

The Ely West curve satisfies 35(1)(a) very easily. (b) is slightly more arguable but given literally every other service runs the alternative route I think it would be satisfied.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Under the Railways Act 2005, it would seem to fit within the definition of 'minor modifications' and is therefore excluded from the requirements of the act.

Section 22(1)(c), 23(1)(c), 24(1)(c), 26(1)(e), 27(1)(e), 28(1)(d) all exclude minor modifications from the requirements of the closure process (S.22-24 for services, S.26-28 for passenger network. S29 & 30 cover stations and also have the same exclusion but that's not relevant here).

Section 35 defines Minor Modifications:

Railways Act 2005

An Act to amend the law relating to the provision and regulation of railway services; and for connected purposes.

www.legislation.gov.uk

The Ely West curve satisfies 35(1)(a) very easily. (b) is slightly more arguable but given literally every other service runs the alternative route I think it would be satisfied.

It is 35 (1) b which is open to debate.
The single train taking that route is around ten minutes quicker than those going via Ely.
I suspect at the very least it would be up to ORR to determine whether it qualifies. And that of course would be subject to challenge in the courts.

 

[zwk500]

It is 35 (1) b which is open to debate.
The single train taking that route is around ten minutes quicker than those going via Ely.

It is the route used by every other service, so the extension is clearly not significant enough to justify running more regular direct trains.

I suspect at the very least it would be up to ORR to determine whether it qualifies.

Nope, it's the Sec of State:

(3)It is the Secretary of State who, in any other case, may make a determination that a closure is a minor modification, or that closures of a particular description are minor modifications.

I gave the link, but horses and water....

And that of course would be subject to challenge in the courts.

The decision would of course be subject to potential challenge. It'd be a pointless waste of everybody's money and damaging to the railway, if the case were even heard. But then again that's why the UK struggles to get anything done.

 

[Tester]

It is 35 (1) b which is open to debate.
The single train taking that route is around ten minutes quicker than those going via Ely.
I suspect at the very least it would be up to ORR to determine whether it qualifies. And that of course would be subject to challenge in the courts.

The perverse fix for that is of course to stop the direct train on or around the curve for ten minutes, to ensure that it isn't quicker.

I despair!

 

[ac6000cw]

But it has never been possible to use the curve to get between the Kings Lynn and Norwich lines without reversing at Ely.

Yes, I know - hence my posting of a track diagram, for the benefit of anyone who might be unfamiliar with the curve and its connections.

(My original post - saying 'don't/can't use', not banned from using - was picking up on dk1's comment re. additional Middleton Towers workings - additional to the long-running sand trains to various destinations via March - in the context of freight using the Breckland line).

It is the route used by every other service, so the extension is clearly not significant enough to justify running more regular direct trains.

I think most people would regard re-routing the 1556 Sundays only Norwich to Manchester Piccadilly to call at (and reverse at) Ely to be an overall improvement, not a degradation (the turnover of passengers on the EMR services at Ely is considerable). The connections at Ely are important to the rail system in East Anglia as a whole.