Free Bus Travel for young people: Soon to be in England.

[MrBeanie]

What I've seen in the last couple of weeks is that there seem to be groups of teenagers, particularly in the evening. Some of whom have then been causing a disturbance to other people on the bus. Whether that is because they feel there is no deterrent if they aren't paying, or it is simply part of the behaviour in thinking they can't be touched is perhaps just part of things. While that might happen sometimes it does seem to be slightly worse recently.

 

[BuhSnarf]

You’re missing the point completely. Kids for years have gathered and hung around at bus stations and bus stops for years, I don’t see the attraction myself, but by suddenly allowing free travel on all buses means every time they get fed up at said bus stop or station they board a bus and use it as somewhere to congregate and cause issues.
Issues relate to playing loud music, smoking, damaging the bus - the list goes on.

Playing loud music and smoking is not limited to teenagers nor is it something new this year. I've been on plenty of buses over the years where older people have sparked up on the top deck.

You’ve hit the nail on the head. I’ve not no issue with any teenager who has used the scheme to travel between points sensibly with no issues, but sadly what I’ve witnessed is as you say some self entitlement, getting on at one stop and off at the next with a smirk ‘because they can’!

What's the issue with kids getting on and then getting off at the next stop?

From your experience as a driver or a passenger?
My take on it is simple. When teenagers get on and pay the fare or have a pass, if they are unruly the threat of them being removed from the vehicle normally stops any negative behaviour.
At the moment while things are ‘free’ all you get is ‘you can’t kick us off as we can stay on as long as we want and do as we want as it’s free’.

As a passenger, I don't think teens that cause trouble whether they are free or paid for don't care about the consequences. They aren't acting up any more because the ride is free. They act up when they have to pay for the fare and nothing is done as drivers are too scared to confront them.

Again - same as plenty of older kids and adults do the same.

As someone as said above - it’s self entitlement that some, not all, sadly abuse!

It's not self entitlement, it's a lack of consequences and other things that they can be doing. But overwhelmingly the majority of teenagers are absolutely fine. How many teens have felt empowered through August to go and explore their county - to do the things that adults have been asking them to do - get off their phone and go and experience the outdoors.

It appears they are damned if they do and damned if they don't!

 

[mayneway]

Playing loud music and smoking is not limited to teenagers nor is it something new this year. I've been on plenty of buses over the years where older people have sparked up on the top deck.

What's the issue with kids getting on and then getting off at the next stop?

As a passenger, I don't think teens that cause trouble whether they are free or paid for don't care about the consequences. They aren't acting up any more because the ride is free. They act up when they have to pay for the fare and nothing is done as drivers are too scared to confront them.

Again - same as plenty of older kids and adults do the same.

It's not self entitlement, it's a lack of consequences and other things that they can be doing. But overwhelmingly the majority of teenagers are absolutely fine. How many teens have felt empowered through August to go and explore their county - to do the things that adults have been asking them to do - get off their phone and go and experience the outdoors.

It appears they are damned if they do and damned if they don't!

I’ll be completely honest. The vast majority of anti social behaviour caused in bus stations and on buses, and wider public transport is caused by teenagers.

Giving them free rein to walk into buses and do what and as they please isn’t the answer. It’s adding fuel to an already intense fire.

You might be lucky enough to live in a part of the country where it’s not an issue, but sadly here it is a very big problem that’s been ongoing for a long time.

 

[GusB]

I’ll be completely honest. The vast majority of anti social behaviour caused in bus stations and on buses, and wider public transport is caused by teenagers.

Giving them free rein to walk into buses and do what and as they please isn’t the answer. It’s adding fuel to an already intense fire.

You might be lucky enough to live in a part of the country where it’s not an issue, but sadly here it is a very big problem that’s been ongoing for a long time.

This isn't a good enough reason to remove free transport from all young people, though. As I said before, just because some youngsters cause trouble, we shouldn't be punishing all youngsters for that behaviour. It simply isn't fair.

Should we close all pubs simply because one or two people might have a little bit too much to drink and cause a bit of a nuisance? Do we shut down Sainsbury's because a couple of people shoplift? No, we deal with those individuals in an appropriate manner and we don't ban the entire population because of the stupid actions of the few.

Just because you've had a few bad experiences doesn't mean that every youngster travelling on a bus for free is being anti-social. How many journeys involving young people have taken place without incident?

 

[Mark L]

That's not specifically a problem with free bus travel, though. If there was more for kids to do such as sports activities, youth clubs etc. they'd be less inclined to hang around places like bus stations. Of course that opens up a new can of worms in itself (and one best discussed elsewhere on the forum).


So we're back to collective punishment again. Some kids cause trouble therefore all kids must face restrictions because of it.


Do you have any factual evidence to back this claim up?


The fact that what keeps appearing? If you're referring to anti-social behaviour then a small minority will engage in this regardless of whether they have to pay for the bus or not. Who are you expecting to sort out this behaviour? Do you want a security guard on every bus - at what cost and who pays for it? We could have an increased police presence, but again this has a cost and resources are stretched as it is.

I'd also question whether certain behaviour is actually anti-social or if it's just kids being kids. You say that trying to explain your point gets lost in the fog - perhaps that's because it really isn't as big a problem as you constantly make it out to be.

In any case, we will only ever hear about the anti-social behaviour because "Group of polite teens make seven mile bus journey without causing bother to anyone" doesn't make the headlines. For every case of ASB that we hear about, how many journeys are made without incident?


Presumably you'll be in favour of scrapping free travel for senior citizens and people with disabilities too?

I would scrap “free” travel. It’s not free, of course, but funded by the taxes paid by (largely) working people many of whom will be less well off than those benefitting from the perk. There should be a charge - maybe £1.00 - to make it clear to the users that there is a cost attached to the service.

Free travel has created perverse demands in some places. Some may recall the press coverage about the behaviour of ENCTS pass holders using morebus service 50 a few years ago -see https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/n...-fighting-over-best-seats-on-purbeck-breezer/

At peak times buses leave Bournemouth and Swanage full. If I was a regular fare paying passenger on this route I would not be too pleased to be left behind because the bus was full of entitled pensioners!

 

[yorksrob]

Presumably you'll be in favour of scrapping free travel for senior citizens and people with disabilities too?

I'm not in favour of those being withdrawn - disabled, because anyone can have their ability to earn degraded by ill health and senior, because its something for everyone to look forward to.

I don't see any justification for any more freebies though. Discounts at the local leisure centres would be more justified for the youngsters (bearing in mind bus fares are already discounted anyway).

 

[Djgr]

I would scrap “free” travel. It’s not free, of course, but funded by the taxes paid by (largely) working people many of whom will be less well off than those benefitting from the perk. There should be a charge - maybe £1.00 - to make it clear to the users that there is a cost attached to the service.

Free travel has created perverse demands in some places. Some may recall the press coverage about the behaviour of ENCTS pass holders using morebus service 50 a few years ago -see https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/n...-fighting-over-best-seats-on-purbeck-breezer/

At peak times buses leave Bournemouth and Swanage full. If I was a regular fare paying passenger on this route I would not be too pleased to be left behind because the bus was full of entitled pensioners!

There is also a massive benefit of getting people out of cars and onto buses, both environmentally and socially. This far outweighs any marginal costs.

 

[mmh]

What's the supposed benefit of this? Where are the kids on the bus going to and why?

 

[johncrossley]

(bearing in mind bus fares are already discounted anyway).

Aren't there still some areas without child fares?

 

[BuhSnarf]

I'm not in favour of those being withdrawn - disabled, because anyone can have their ability to earn degraded by ill health and senior, because its something for everyone to look forward to.

Why should seniors get a freebie? Are they not already getting a freebie through pensions, extended healthcare because they're living longer, discounted cinema tickets, discounted restaurant food, discounted rail travel etc. etc.

If kids aren't allowed a freebie (heaven forbid we do something nice for them!) then why should old moaning codgers?

(I actually do think OAPs should get a free bus pass, as should kids, as should disabled, because I don't just think about myself)

 

[mangad]

What's the supposed benefit of this? Where are the kids on the bus going to and why?

Helping families with the cost of living. It's part of a range of things happening, including reducing VAT on tourist attraction ticket prices and on childrens meals in pubs and restaurants. It's called the Great British Summer Savings.

 

[BuhSnarf]

What's the supposed benefit of this? Where are the kids on the bus going to and why?

Why does it matter where they're going? Do we put that restriction on the senior citizens who use their freebie bus pass?

But if you want to know seriously my daughter has:
* Gone to meet school friends she normally would need me to drive her to.
* Gone to visit her Gran who is lonely and so it was nice to see her, otherwise she'd have to wait till the weekend.
* Gone with a friend in town to go and walk round the shops.
* Gone out for a day at a park further than she'd normally go.

 

[Djgr]

What's the supposed benefit of this? Where are the kids on the bus going to and why?

Anything that gets them out of the house and off their phones. Did you spend your whole childhood indoors?

 

[mayneway]

This isn't a good enough reason to remove free transport from all young people, though. As I said before, just because some youngsters cause trouble, we shouldn't be punishing all youngsters for that behaviour. It simply isn't fair.

Should we close all pubs simply because one or two people might have a little bit too much to drink and cause a bit of a nuisance? Do we shut down Sainsbury's because a couple of people shoplift? No, we deal with those individuals in an appropriate manner and we don't ban the entire population because of the stupid actions of the few.

Just because you've had a few bad experiences doesn't mean that every youngster travelling on a bus for free is being anti-social. How many journeys involving young people have taken place without incident?

A few bad experiences …. It’s a daily occurrence.

I haven’t once said it should be removed. It needs better managing than simply saying any teenager can walk onto a bus and not have to pay.

One example would be its free when travelling with a fare paying adult.

Another would be any child can travel for free when they produce their igo card (card used in Greater Manchester to allow the purchase of child tickets).

Bev Craig the new Mayor of Manchester has already promised it will return in January but it’s an extension of the ‘our pass’ scheme where applicants pay £10 a year and get free bus travel when they use the card. This will hopefully reduce antisocial incidents as their names and photo are on the pass. Fingers crossed!!

 

[BuhSnarf]

A few bad experiences …. It’s a daily occurrence.

I haven’t once said it should be removed. It needs better managing than simply saying any teenager can walk onto a bus and not have to pay.

One example would be its free when travelling with a fare paying adult.

Another would be any child can travel for free when they produce their igo card (card used in Greater Manchester to allow the purchase of child tickets).

Bev Craig the new Mayor of Manchester has already promised it will return in January but it’s an extension of the ‘our pass’ scheme where applicants pay £10 a year and get free bus travel when they use the card. This will hopefully reduce antisocial incidents as their names and photo are on the pass. Fingers crossed!!

If you make them travel with a fare paying adult then it takes away their independence.
I like the idea of them having a young person's card that would stop those too old in getting a ticket.

Although, why would their name and photo reduce antisocial behaviour? They're already on CCTV and likely well known to the police / bus companies and it still doesn't stop them! If they're intending to be a nuisance they'll just use someone else's card, plus when confronted to be kicked off the bus they just won't show the card.

 

[duncombec]

It's very tempting to divide it up into a plain "those that do and those that don't", or worse, "all teenagers at the same", but I think there are three groups at play:

- Those who just don't cause trouble
- Those who wouldn't normally cause trouble, but egged on by peer pressure, summer holidays, etc., forget how to behave, but will respond positively if directed politely.
- Those who will always cause trouble, come what may.

There are clear a number of the latter group in Manchester's bus stations, or as those of us watching "Fare Dodgers" have seen, on Nottingham trams, but why should the other two groups suffer a result?

I haven't actually done much bus travel in August, but should the two very polite girls on a service in Herne Bay (the younger quite obviously of an age where the major operators would have preferred parental, rather than 'older sister' company) who travelled a few stops have been forbidden travel? Similarly, should the very large and slightly imposing group in Chatham Bus Station, but who were actually quite polite and said thank you in response to being told the correct bus stop for their desired destination have been branded "trouble makers" just because they were a bit rowdy?

I don't doubt there have been problems in some areas and with some groups. But there is a balance with those bus company representatives here who've said they've seen an uptick in adult fares as a result, which is surely a good thing for the industry?

 

[mayneway]

If you make them travel with a fare paying adult then it takes away their independence.
I like the idea of them having a young person's card that would stop those too old in getting a ticket.

Although, why would their name and photo reduce antisocial behaviour? They're already on CCTV and likely well known to the police / bus companies and it still doesn't stop them! If they're intending to be a nuisance they'll just use someone else's card, plus when confronted to be kicked off the bus they just won't show the card.

Well it works very well with 16-18 year olds having the our passes in Manchester. There’s next to no issues with these travellers, and to be honest I very rarely have issues when 11-15 year olds are paying or have passes.

Again it’s my observations and experiences as a driver. I can only say it as I and many of my colleagues see it.

 

[Dwarfer1979]

Another would be any child can travel for free when they produce their igo card (card used in Greater Manchester to allow the purchase of child tickets).

Fine for a Manchester only scheme (or any area restricted scheme where a similar scheme exists), no good for a national scheme as much of the country doesn't require proof of age cards to access child fares so few will have them and drivers would have to familiarise themselves with the various different options where they exist.

It is unlikely that a national scheme would ever be permanent year round due to the impact on school travel generally so it is unlikely to ever be able to justify the costs of introducing widespread proof of age cards (like the ENCTS cards for older or disabled passengers).

 

[BuhSnarf]

Well it works very well with 16-18 year olds having the our passes in Manchester. There’s next to no issues with these travellers, and to be honest I very rarely have issues when 11-15 year olds are paying or have passes.

Again it’s my observations and experiences as a driver. I can only say it as I and many of my colleagues see it.

So your argument is that these feral teenagers are only causing trouble because the bus is free? Once the trouble makers are made to pay they're suddenly golden children?

Manchester must be very unique in that it has good kids when they pay and bad ones when they don't!

 

[JKP]

Fine for a Manchester only scheme (or any area restricted scheme where a similar scheme exists), no good for a national scheme as much of the country doesn't require proof of age cards to access child fares so few will have them and drivers would have to familiarise themselves with the various different options where they exist. It is unlikely that a national scheme would ever be permanent year round due to the impact on school travel generally so it is unlikely to ever be able to justify the costs of introducing widespread proof of age cards (like the ENCTS cards for older or disabled passengers).

Unless of course England introduces a national under 22 24/7 scheme as in Scotland. It would of course have to be administered centrally rather than the chaotic funding of pensioner and disabled passes by each local transport authority in England as at present.

 

[johncrossley]

In the areas without proof of age cards, free travel is effectively up to 18 at least, as 18 year olds can easily pretend to be 15. Maybe this is why child rate stops at 12 in some countries.

 

[Deerfold]

In the areas without proof of age cards, free travel is effectively up to 18 at least, as 18 year olds can easily pretend to be 15. Maybe this is why child rate stops at 12 in some countries.

Not all areas allow discounted travel up to 16 and many more do not have half fare, just a reduced fare.

In West Yorkshire, discounted fares apply up to 19, but are capped at £1.60 with adults at £2.50.

In North Yorkshire, child fares are typically 2/3 of the uncapped adult fare (and are capped at £3), though there are some £1 special offers.

 

[johncrossley]

Not all areas allow discounted travel up to 16 and many more do not have half fare, just a reduced fare.

In West Yorkshire, discounted fares apply up to 19, but are capped at £1.60 with adults at £2.50.

In North Yorkshire, child fares are typically 2/3 of the uncapped adult fare (and are capped at £3), though there are some £1 special offers.

Oh yes, child fares really are variable across the country, if they exist at all. So when we have a temporary offer like the current one, it can be exploited by young adults much older than 16.

 

[YorkRailFan]

In North Yorkshire, child fares are typically 2/3 of the uncapped adult fare (and are capped at £3), though there are some £1 special offers

Its £1 for all journeys for Under 19s within York & North Yorkshire now and has been since September 2024:

From 15 September 2024, young people aged 18 or under will pay only £1 for a single journey on most bus routes in North Yorkshire.

The £1 fare scheme is funded by the York and North Yorkshire Combined Authority. It is available on most bus journeys within North Yorkshire and also to York and the Tees Valley.

The fare scheme does not include school routes, tours and bus services closed to the public. You might be asked to prove your age when buying a ticket.

Bus service changes and news

Latest news and notifications of planned changes to bus routes and timetables.

www.northyorks.gov.uk

 

[KHCT]

Interesting that this thread has real world experience from drivers which is largely negative, yet others who don't have to deal with the issue all day at work are quick to dismiss their concerns. I've certainly seen an increase in the number of groups of children travelling in my area and some of their behaviour has been less than desirable. It seems to be more of an issue when groups travel together. Not all have been like this, but more than half of those I've seen.

My issue is that this is a stupid policy with an expensive price tag; £100m for just a month. Personally, I would much rather get rid of 'free' entitlements for everyone and use the same cash to reduce fares for everyone across the board. Handing out a 'free' benefit purely on the basis of age is a very blunt tool which is highly ineffective in targeting those who actually benefit the most.

 

[Bristol LHS]

What age were they? Did the driver think they were too young or did they not understand the rules? And did they relent or have to get a later bus? I'd suggest writing to the operator.

They‘re 14. His impression was the driver just didn’t want them on their bus - started by saying that they weren’t taking part in the offer, then changed their story and said NY Council were, but they needed an adult with them. The kids offered to pay the usual North Yorkshire kids £1 fare each, but didn’t have enough cash between them and NY Council don’t take contactless payment(!)

My son and his mates swapped their planned afternoon in Thirsk for a trip to Bedale with Procters, who were pleased to have them on board for free.

I have complained to the council who recognised their driver had misinformed them, apologised and assured me they will be working in alignment with the policy in future.

 

[BuhSnarf]

Interesting that this thread has real world experience from drivers which is largely negative, yet others who don't have to deal with the issue all day at work are quick to dismiss their concerns. I've certainly seen an increase in the number of groups of children travelling in my area and some of their behaviour has been less than desirable. It seems to be more of an issue when groups travel together. Not all have been like this, but more than half of those I've seen.

My issue is that this is a stupid policy with an expensive price tag; £100m for just a month. Personally, I would much rather get rid of 'free' entitlements for everyone and use the same cash to reduce fares for everyone across the board. Handing out a 'free' benefit purely on the basis of age is a very blunt tool which is highly ineffective in targeting those who actually benefit the most.

That's not surprising though, they see mainly the negative aspects. However, there have also been those in the thread where they've had positive interactions with young people.

I think what this thread goes to show is that many have a negative opinion of young people in general - people mentioning up thread that kids can "exploit" this. Maybe many in this thread have forgotten what it was like to be young. Maybe, they were all angels.

 

[mayneway]

So your argument is that these feral teenagers are only causing trouble because the bus is free? Once the trouble makers are made to pay they're suddenly golden children?

Manchester must be very unique in that it has good kids when they pay and bad ones when they don't!

Basically yes! Up until the 1st august while anti social behaviour has been a major issue in bus stations and bus stops etc it’s never been a major issue on the buses. Yes when you’ve got 90 teenage school kids on the bus at 16:00 things can be lively but normally the threat of being kicked off normally does the trick but now it’s free, the bus station trouble makers simply run from one bus to another causing bother.

But I forget your brief bus journeys each day experience a lot more than I do!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Aug 2026 ==

Interesting that this thread has real world experience from drivers which is largely negative, yet others who don't have to deal with the issue all day at work are quick to dismiss their concerns. I've certainly seen an increase in the number of groups of children travelling in my area and some of their behaviour has been less than desirable. It seems to be more of an issue when groups travel together. Not all have been like this, but more than half of those I've seen.

My issue is that this is a stupid policy with an expensive price tag; £100m for just a month. Personally, I would much rather get rid of 'free' entitlements for everyone and use the same cash to reduce fares for everyone across the board. Handing out a 'free' benefit purely on the basis of age is a very blunt tool which is highly ineffective in targeting those who actually benefit the most.

I salute you sir for your comments. Probably one of the best most sensible comments on this thread!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Aug 2026 ==

That's not surprising though, they see mainly the negative aspects. However, there have also been those in the thread where they've had positive interactions with young people.

There’s a very very big difference between being negative and realistic.
My honest opinion is that bus travel is only just recovering from Covid, schemes like this are not realistically thought out, if anything it’s probably put some people off travelling by bus.

One driver has today announced he’s leaving the job after over 10 years to go working for Asda as he’s not happy having ‘youth club supervisor’ attached to his job description - his words not mine.

 

[BuhSnarf]

Basically yes! Up until the 1st august while anti social behaviour has been a major issue in bus stations and bus stops etc it’s never been a major issue on the buses. Yes when you’ve got 90 teenage school kids on the bus at 16:00 things can be lively but normally the threat of being kicked off normally does the trick but now it’s free, the bus station trouble makers simply run from one bus to another causing bother.

But I forget your brief bus journeys each day experience a lot more than I do!

And yet we've countless messages on here pre-free scheme of drivers moaning about anti-social behaviour on buses. I'm not disputing your experience, it is only natural that your views would be tainted by the experiences you have, but I feel that they may be isolated to the routes that you're driving and the area you're driving in. As has been outlined by plenty of people on the forum who likely travel on way more than the occasional bus (which I do travel on more than) there has been good experiences all round.

There’s a very very big difference between being negative and realistic.
My honest opinion is that bus travel is only just recovering from Covid, schemes like this are not realistically thought out, if anything it’s probably put some people off travelling by bus.

One driver has today announced he’s leaving the job after over 10 years to go working for Asda as he’s not happy having ‘youth club supervisor’ attached to his job description - his words not mine.

There's also a big difference between being objective and tarnishing a whole age range of people based upon a number of bad experiences.

If he thinks working at ASDA will be any less stressful in dealing with ASB I have some bad news...

 

[820KDV]

Just to share my experience today travelling on town network buses for five hours as part of my work. Not disregarding the ASB comments above, but where we had children travelling they were fine, accompanied and unaccompanied. One lad, tennis racket in hand, even politely asked "can I still travel to town for free?" as he boarded the bus. To be fair we didn't see many young people on board; its only a small town and most would probably walk to the shops, one of the parks, the swimming pool or cinema. We would probably have seen a higher number travelling on the inter-urban routes to and from town. But we had no problems at all, and the operator's representative we were travelling with said they'd not had any problems with the scheme. Again, for context and contrast, none of the buses we travelled on had cab assault screens, many of the passengers were greeted by name by the driver, and many in turn used the driver's name. And when someone boarded with a dog the driver reached down into the cab and produced some treats for it! OK, I'm wandering off topic, but I feel its important to present a different side of things, and to say how grateful I am to be working in an area where this is what bus travel means.

However, back at my desk this afternoon there was an email on the Association of Transport Coordinating Officers (ATCO) e-list saying that DfT are aware that there are ASB issues and requesting our comments from a local authority point of view. I expect that DfT are also asking similar questions via the trade bodies Confederation of Passenger Transport (CPT) and Association of Local Bus Company Managers (ALBUM) given their involvement in developing some of the "nuts and bolts" of the scheme. DfT are listening.