Liverpool City Region-Bus Franchising

[Fokx]

Which matches the PDF on Merseytravels website.....

That's actually been updated. The original .PDF timetable didn't list anything other than timing points

 

[Statto]

To be honest (I might be wrong) but I can't see Warrington repainted any of their fleet into METRO livery considering all of the fleet is classed as common user meaning apart from the deckers can be used on any Warrington route, if any were to be repainted into METRO livery no doubt daily you'll see METRO liveried vehicles on non METRO routes in/around Warrington.

As for the 10/!0A I've been in Liverpool in the past and due to how long its took a 10A to load in Queen Square there's been a 10A right behind it waiting to load and there's also various pinch points along the route from Liverpool to Page Moss where the bus behind can actually catch up with the bus in front which has been happening for quite a while now.

Good point, the Old Swan area is notorious for delays (particularly in the peaks) as i've been on the 10, 10A that has taken 15 to 20 minutes to get from Green Lane to Queens Drive, which you can do in less than 5 minutes in a clear run, then add in Page Moss which can be bad too with traffic lights changing to red very quickly.

Also the 10A goes from Liverpool One & that can play havoc with reliability with all the traffic lights that the route goes through at every junction until it leaves the City Centre, even Queen Square can be notorious pinch point too with traffic lights at either end of the bus station, & it feels like they're on red for ages.

 

[Tim33160]

Bustimes is now showing the LCR franchised routes as Metro Network

Stagecoach St Helens https://bustimes.org/operators/m-network-2 28 routes

Warrington 322 is under https://bustimes.org/operators/m-network-3 - just the 322

EDIT: Oops : Sorry ! Duplicate info:

 

[MCRTransitYT]

Metro Network timetables have come onto bustimes, with two operators so far:
MNSC - Metro Network Stagecoach
MNWB - Metro Network Warrington Borough Transport
Interesting to see the name change from Merseytravel Metro to this new "Metro Network", and also poor data input into bustimes means the operators are called Metro Network, unlike Bee Network where it shows the operator aswell

Was mentioned earlier in the thread, as now we can see the full list of stops for routes such as the new X3

 

[Harryn9000]

Good point, the Old Swan area is notorious for delays (particularly in the peaks) as i've been on the 10, 10A that has taken 15 to 20 minutes to get from Green Lane to Queens Drive, which you can do in less than 5 minutes in a clear run, then add in Page Moss which can be bad too with traffic lights changing to red very quickly.

Also the 10A goes from Liverpool One & that can play havoc with reliability with all the traffic lights that the route goes through at every junction until it leaves the City Centre, even Queen Square can be notorious pinch point too with traffic lights at either end of the bus station, & it feels like they're on red for ages.

lime street lights have been broken for some time. when i was driving at GL the light would kill your layover time due to how long it takes for buses to get through. also the problem is the 10s loading is not managed at all . stand 1 and 2 can block the whole bus network going out of queens sqaure due tothe amount of services that use them 2 stands

 

[Statto]

lime street lights have been broken for some time. when i was driving at GL the light would kill your layover time due to how long it takes for buses to get through. also the problem is the 10s loading is not managed at all . stand 1 and 2 can block the whole bus network going out of queens sqaure due tothe amount of services that use them 2 stands

Oh yes, because of reliability you can have the situation were you have 2 or more buses on an 8,9 10B waiting to get into stand 1, & 2 or more buses on the 10,10A waiting to get into stand 2 all at the same time, then add in both stands being that full passengers waiting all to board particularly from mid afternoon it's a recipe for chaos.

Queen Square was redesigned from the old Hood Street Gyratory in the 90s, whilst the old Gyratory was a dump, Queen Square is a mess & notorious for delays, more so when you have 2 or more buses waiting to go into the same stand, the Cross River routes were moved to nearby Sir Thomas Street in 2001.

 

[Fokx]

Oh yes, because of reliability you can have the situation were you have 2 or more buses on an 8,9 10B waiting to get into stand 1, & 2 or more buses on the 10,10A waiting to get into stand 2 all at the same time, then add in both stands being that full passengers waiting all to board particularly from mid afternoon it's a recipe for chaos.

Queen Square was redesigned from the old Hood Street Gyratory in the 90s, whilst the old Gyratory was a dump, Queen Square is a mess & notorious for delays, more so when you have 2 or more buses waiting to go into the same stand, the Cross River routes were moved to nearby Sir Thomas Street in 2001.

Another issue is that some stands are over-utilised such as stand 1 and 2, with a bus every 2-3 minutes, whilst other stands see a bus every 7/8 minutes like stands 3 and 4.

Rather than alight passengers at the slighting stop and then serve stand 9, services 10A and 18 can block the bus way due to waiting to alight passengers with full double deckers.

Meanwhile stand 12 has one bus day

 

[Statto]

Another issue is that some stands are over-utilised such as stand 1 and 2, with a bus every 2-3 minutes, whilst other stands see a bus every 7/8 minutes like stands 3 and 4.

Rather than alight passengers at the slighting stop and then serve stand 9, services 10A and 18 can block the bus way due to waiting to alight passengers with full double deckers.

Meanwhile stand 12 has one bus day

Then add in Queen Square stand 8, on the face of it it should be straight forward as buses using that stand (7, 61 Runcorn, 76, 78, & 79C) have light frequencies, but stupidly they're timed to depart at around the same time, like 61 at xx51, 79C at xx53, 76 at xx56, 78 at xx01, 7 at xx05, only needs a couple of buses on those routes to be delayed & you have chaos, & what makes things worse is the traffic lights are right next to stand 8.

 

[childwallblues]

Then add in Queen Square stand 8, on the face of it it should be straight forward as buses using that stand (7, 61 Runcorn, 76, 78, & 79C) have light frequencies, but stupidly they're timed to depart at around the same time, like 61 at xx51, 79C at xx53, 76 at xx56, 78 at xx01, 7 at xx05, only needs a couple of buses on those routes to be delayed & you have chaos, & what makes things worse is the traffic lights are right next to stand 8.

They used to be on Stands 2 and 3 without the76 so had much more space.

 

[adam rogan]

They used to be on Stands 2 and 3 without the76 so had much more space.

Historically the 76 along with many other routes used to cut through to Hanover Street/Liverpool one past Lime Street and St Johns. That cut through is now solely utilized by the 7 and the City Explorer. Perhaps more routes should be routed through there to L1 bus station and they can use the stop where the 10a stops in front of St Georges Hall for those who want to alight near Queens Square.

 

[Idk123]

Historically the 76 along with many other routes used to cut through to Hanover Street/Liverpool one past Lime Street and St Johns. That cut through is now solely utilized by the 7 and the City Explorer. Perhaps more routes should be routed through there to L1 bus station and they can use the stop where the 10a stops in front of St Georges Hall for those who want to alight near Queens Square.

It's not like the 10A actually stops at any stops between Liverpool ONE and Queen Square anyway, occasionally stopping at Lord Street and James Street but even then you could just extend them to Lord Street anyway like most of the weekday morning buses to Liverpool do.

 

[markymark2000]

Historically the 76 along with many other routes used to cut through to Hanover Street/Liverpool one past Lime Street and St Johns. That cut through is now solely utilized by the 7 and the City Explorer. Perhaps more routes should be routed through there to L1 bus station and they can use the stop where the 10a stops in front of St Georges Hall for those who want to alight near Queens Square.

How do you expect that to work? I take it you researched this before making the suggestion?

Especially since the Lime Street Bus Link can only be used by buses coming from/going in the St Johns Lane/Queens Square direction. You can't come from Lime Street/London Road and join the bus gate.

That's before you look at stand capacity in Liverpool One, and how congested this bus link will become. The traffic lights in this area are already torturous without adding more buses using the stupid single carriageway bus gate.


Simple solution to improving Queens Squares situation, reverse the idiotic, purely political, short sighted decision to remove buses from most of the city. Buses no longer running to James Street and other areas has meant that dwell time has increased at Queens Square as now people are forced to use the stop at their city centre bus stop, whereas before, people were a bit more spread out over a few various stops. Granted some road changes have happened now so a complete reversal wouldn't be possible, but extending 2 routes up to terminate on Exchange Street East then start at Moorfields (returning to QSBS via North John Street, Victoria Street and Sir Thomas Street). And have a few finish on Water Street to then start on James Street/Lord Street. It'd help to spread out passengers a little bit.

 

[Fokx]

Historically the 76 along with many other routes used to cut through to Hanover Street/Liverpool one past Lime Street and St Johns. That cut through is now solely utilized by the 7 and the City Explorer. Perhaps more routes should be routed through there to L1 bus station and they can use the stop where the 10a stops in front of St Georges Hall for those who want to alight near Queens Square.

It isn't possible to access that cut through from Lime Street due to the angling on the road, it's only accessible from the Queen Square/St Johns lane direction

It is possible however to turn left after the London Road stop, serve the Skelhorne Street side of Lime Street Station and then turn right down Hanover Street (Great Charlotte Street and Copperas Hill on the return).

 

[neilcobbe]

Just drove past Leigh Bus Station and there were 2 Metro LCR buses parked up. Couldn't see much from the car other than it was a double decker and a single decker. Can't be on route learning I would have thought unless there's a batch of new drivers at St.Helens for when Stagecoach take over.

 

[MCRTransitYT]

Just drove past Leigh Bus Station and there were 2 Metro LCR buses parked up. Couldn't see much from the car other than it was a double decker and a single decker. Can't be on route learning I would have thought unless there's a batch of new drivers at St.Helens for when Stagecoach take over.

34 Leigh to St Helens route learning most likely

 

[JasonL]

Just drove past Leigh Bus Station and there were 2 Metro LCR buses parked up. Couldn't see much from the car other than it was a double decker and a single decker. Can't be on route learning I would have thought unless there's a batch of new drivers at St.Helens for when Stagecoach take over.

It would be for route learning. I reckon we will see a mixture of single and double deckers on the 34

 

[Statto]

The main reasons the 10A still goes through to Liverpool One is the lack of layover space around Queen Square area, & too keep a connection to Liverpool One to/from Queen Square.

Remember a few years ago when the council ordered the amount of routes that used to go to Mann Island, James Street & Castle Street to be cut, the routes were cut to Queen Square, but the 10A & 18 still go through to Liverpool One, they erected a layover spot in Old Haymarket but that's only suitable for a handful of buses, so you have the fun & games when drivers trying to get to a layover spot

Although half the time drivers are heading straight back out in service as they've been delayed that much arriving at Queen Square.

Then add in the Cross River routes that terminate at Whitechapel, trying to find a layover spot in that area can be a nightmare at times.

 

[Djgr]

The main reasons the 10A still goes through to Liverpool One is the lack of layover space around Queen Square area, & too keep a connection to Liverpool One to/from Queen Square.

Remember a few years ago when the council ordered the amount of routes that used to go to Mann Island, James Street & Castle Street to be cut, the routes were cut to Queen Square, but the 10A & 18 still go through to Liverpool One, they erected a layover spot in Old Haymarket but that's only suitable for a handful of buses, so you have the fun & games when drivers trying to get to a layover spot

Although half the time drivers are heading straight back out in service as they've been delayed that much arriving at Queen Square.

Then add in the Cross River routes that terminate at Whitechapel, trying to find a layover spot in that area can be a nightmare at times.

I think services were cutback because the sheer number of buses was causing traffic gridlock in the centre.

Not so long ago they would also be spewing diesel fumes and, in the more anarchic years of bus deregulation, there would be no mechanism to address these issues.

 

[Fokx]

It would be for route learning. I reckon we will see a mixture of single and double deckers on the 34

Most likely to be all double deck streetdecks.

The Enviro 200s only have 30 seats despite being 10.8m, so will most likely be used on the routes that see the Optare Solo SR's or can't have a decker used

Eg. 30/31/32/33/35/320 shorts

 

[markymark2000]

I think services were cutback because the sheer number of buses was causing traffic gridlock in the centre.

Not so long ago they would also be spewing diesel fumes and, in the more anarchic years of bus deregulation, there would be no mechanism to address these issues.

Is this a party political broadcast from Joe Anderson The Mayor for Motorists? Sounds like the sort of thing he would have said.

If you believe that buses were the cause of city centre congestion though, you'd be very much mistaken. Unless by which you mean, buses were queuing up at times because traffic light timings and give way priorities were given towards motorists, and the city council for years did it's upmost to undermine the bus network.

On the left, Hanover Street with 30 buses per hour. On the right, one of the cities car parks. Hmmm... I wonder who should get priority. Buses, or cars..... buses or cars...... Is it any wonder if there were sometimes queues of buses when this was the short sighted mentality that was going on!


Liverpool City Council spent £6.5m building a multi story car park Victoria Street, which opened in Dec 2017. By June 2019 there is a consultation out to start stopping buses from going into the city centre. Coincidence much?


Pre 2020 there was a proven track record of operators working with Merseytravel and trying to make things work within the city, so where your assumption comes from that this was because of buses flooding the routes and causing pollution, is anyones guess, but it's very much mistaken and flawed. The move to push buses out of the city, was purely a political move by the former Mayor and the city council. A Mayor, and city council, who I should add, have a proven track record in anti public transport infrastructure and ideology. As proven with my examples of the Hanover Street/Gradwell Street junction. And I trust it's merely a coincidence that the city council opens up more parking spaces, then swiftly wants to make buses less convenient.

 

[Northerngirl]

The main reasons the 10A still goes through to Liverpool One is the lack of layover space around Queen Square area, & too keep a connection to Liverpool One to/from Queen Square.

Remember a few years ago when the council ordered the amount of routes that used to go to Mann Island, James Street & Castle Street to be cut, the routes were cut to Queen Square, but the 10A & 18 still go through to Liverpool One, they erected a layover spot in Old Haymarket but that's only suitable for a handful of buses, so you have the fun & games when drivers trying to get to a layover spot

Although half the time drivers are heading straight back out in service as they've been delayed that much arriving at Queen Square.

Then add in the Cross River routes that terminate at Whitechapel, trying to find a layover spot in that area can be a nightmare at times.

The wirral services desperate need moving to Liverpool one bus station, either following the same route as the 10a, or just directly onto the strand, ive never not had a queue of about 4 buses dropping off, and the crowds at St Thomas Street can get dangerous at times, and i would say the majority of people coming over the water are heading to the shops anyway

 

[Statto]

The wirral services desperate need moving to Liverpool one bus station, either following the same route as the 10a, or just directly onto the strand, ive never not had a queue of about 4 buses dropping off, and the crowds at St Thomas Street can get dangerous at times, and i would say the majority of people coming over the water are heading to the shops anyway

I completely disagree the Wirral services are perfect as they are, most passengers get off the Wirral services at Whitechapel & board at Sir Thomas Street, & those stops are near the Birkenhead tunnel which is what most of the Wirral routes use

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Aug 2026 ==

The problem with Sir Thomas Street is that some of the Bootle routes stop there that could easily stop at Queen Square, routes like 52, 52A, 55, 58 which terminate at Queen Square but pick up at Sir Thomas Street, some of those routes could be moved to Queen Square stand 12 which incidentally only has one bus a day stopping there.

You have the odd situation for those going to Bootle & further north, were 47, 53, 300 & X2 pick up at Queen Square, but 52, 52A, 55, 58 pick up at Sir Thomas Street, but 47, 52, 52A, 53, 55, 58, 300 & X2 all set down at Queen Square

 

[Fawkes Cat]

You have the odd situation for those going to Bootle & further north, were 47, 53, 300 & X2 pick up at Queen Square, but 52, 52A, 55, 58 pick up at Sir Thomas Street, but 47, 52, 52A, 53, 55, 58, 300 & X2 all set down at Queen Square

This is a nuisance, particularly in the evenings when services thin out, and you have to choose which stop to use to get to Bootle.

I've wondered if a stop on Victoria Street could be reinstated for Bootle buses in that (virtually? Maybe not the 54) all of them leave town past the Birkenhead tunnel mouth, but having them all depart from the same town set of stops would be even better.

 

[Statto]

Not sure if Victoria Street stop could be reinstated as that's now one of the layover areas in that area for buses that terminate at Queen Square.

 

[markymark2000]

The problem with Sir Thomas Street is that some of the Bootle routes stop there that could easily stop at Queen Square, routes like 52, 52A, 55, 58 which terminate at Queen Square but pick up at Sir Thomas Street, some of those routes could be moved to Queen Square stand 12 which incidentally only has one bus a day stopping there.

Isn't it meant to be difficult to pull off stand 12, or parking on stand 12 blocks stand 11? There's some reason for why Stand 12 isn't used more, and not just lack of demand.

I would say though, do you really want to flood the top of Queens Square with more buses too from the Bootles? The top end is already quite congested and the lights don't let many buses though.

 

[Northerngirl]

If we are talking of route improvements, I'll hope to see more running on edge lane, the half hourly service is quite lacking compared to most of the other roads out of the city, hopefully the 6 can run throughout the day too

 

[childwallblues]

Is this a party political broadcast from Joe Anderson The Mayor for Motorists? Sounds like the sort of thing he would have said.

If you believe that buses were the cause of city centre congestion though, you'd be very much mistaken. Unless by which you mean, buses were queuing up at times because traffic light timings and give way priorities were given towards motorists, and the city council for years did it's upmost to undermine the bus network.

On the left, Hanover Street with 30 buses per hour. On the right, one of the cities car parks. Hmmm... I wonder who should get priority. Buses, or cars..... buses or cars...... Is it any wonder if there were sometimes queues of buses when this was the short sighted mentality that was going on!
View attachment 209375

Liverpool City Council spent £6.5m building a multi story car park Victoria Street, which opened in Dec 2017. By June 2019 there is a consultation out to start stopping buses from going into the city centre. Coincidence much?


Pre 2020 there was a proven track record of operators working with Merseytravel and trying to make things work within the city, so where your assumption comes from that this was because of buses flooding the routes and causing pollution, is anyones guess, but it's very much mistaken and flawed. The move to push buses out of the city, was purely a political move by the former Mayor and the city council. A Mayor, and city council, who I should add, have a proven track record in anti public transport infrastructure and ideology. As proven with my examples of the Hanover Street/Gradwell Street junction. And I trust it's merely a coincidence that the city council opens up more parking spaces, then swiftly wants to make buses less convenient.

Correct. Mayor Anderson had a proven track record of anti bus. His removel of the cities bus lanes proved this.

 

[Harryn9000]

The wirral services desperate need moving to Liverpool one bus station, either following the same route as the 10a, or just directly onto the strand, ive never not had a queue of about 4 buses dropping off, and the crowds at St Thomas Street can get dangerous at times, and i would say the majority of people coming over the water are heading to the shops anyway

majority of wirral buses go cook street till about 8pm at night monday to friday. the issue is there not enough parking for buses in the city centre. and the fact most route don't layover in liverpool for longer than 8 mins during the day. the traffic in the city centre has become worse going liverpool one is never gonna happen i'm surprised more of the north liverpool services dont go there instead.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Aug 2026 ==

Isn't it meant to be difficult to pull off stand 12, or parking on stand 12 blocks stand 11? There's some reason for why Stand 12 isn't used more, and not just lack of demand.

I would say though, do you really want to flood the top of Queens Square with more buses too from the Bootles? The top end is already quite congested and the lights don't let many buses though.

it congested due to prioritys not being altered for the incresed flow of traffic since flyovers come down. the whole of queens square is bad for it espeically lime street end

 

[MCRTransitYT]

In regards to school services, what buses are Huyton Travel due to use when their contracts start, and also are Aintree Coachlines operating any franchised schools in the Wirral?

 

[Statto]

majority of wirral buses go cook street till about 8pm at night monday to friday. the issue is there not enough parking for buses in the city centre. and the fact most route don't layover in liverpool for longer than 8 mins during the day. the traffic in the city centre has become worse going liverpool one is never gonna happen i'm surprised more of the north liverpool services dont go there instead.

Yeah the lack of layover spaces is why the Cross River routes 407, 432, 433, 464, 471 & 472 continue through to Cook Street, but the Cross River routes go straight back out when they are late on arrival & often missing Cook Street altogether going straight from Whitechapel to Sir Thomas Street instead, & it was a nightmare the other day when because of a fatal crash the Birkenhead tunnel was shut until early evening, some were Cross River buses were only going to/from Birkenhead as they were that late.